Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.
Discumbobulate
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by Discumbobulate »

Kalliste , imagination does not provide a method for a rocket engine to provide thrust in a vacuum. We know from scientific controlled experiment that a rocket engine cannot do work in a vacuum.

The video of rocketry you posted earlier was interesting in that this is an early example of a mixture of science and pseudo science used to programme the masses.

In the video the method of achieving travel to the moon used by Jules Verne was the only known way of getting from earth to the moon , because science was aware of ramifications of Joules experiment. Could only be achieved via an enormous artillery shell since rockets were known not to work in a vacuum.

The description of the three stage rocketry was as I remember from the sixties. But since becoming aware of Joules experiment it is apparent that achieving the 18,000mph in the upper atmosphere for satellite deployment is nonsense too . Nothing can fall around the earth according to the theory of gravity as an attraction of mass across distance by unknown means.

You may of course provide a constant force of acceleration to enable a satellite to orbit around the planet , but without this force any satellite will spiral down towards the centre of earths gravity .

Was nice to see a mention of the N-body problem associated with orbiting bodies , sun moon and earth. A problem which is unsolvable within the heliocentric system.
kalliste
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by kalliste »

Discumbobulate wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:16 am Kalliste , imagination does not provide a method for a rocket engine to provide thrust in a vacuum. We know from scientific controlled experiment that a rocket engine cannot do work in a vacuum.
We haven't seen that as far as I can tell. Check the video I posted from Project Orion, where a capsule is being propelled by high explosive shock waves. My mechanism for rockets to work in space doesn't involve Joule Expansion.

In another sense it doesn't matter. We can observe that NASA is lying about a bunch of things, we have no good way of definitively determining what is true and what is disinformation or misdirection.

The more interesting avenue of investigation is what can we figure out of what they are hiding from us? I suspect the answer to that is, "not much." Though an hour or two in a room with Tim Peake shackled to a chair and some secateurs and I'd find out something for sure.
glg
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by glg »

kalliste wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:17 am
(...)

We can observe that NASA is lying about a bunch of things, we have no good way of definitively determining what is true and what is disinformation or misdirection.
(...)
kalliste, can you name anything practical, no matter how minute, that you think has originated and been devised solely by way of space travel?
Can you name anything practical, that you think would not be possible without access to space travel?

If you can answer in the affirmative and conclusively, I will start pondering if NASA is actually hiding things and question what about them is true or not, but if you find nothing, I will be content not bothering so as if they simply hide everything (which would be of no consequence to me) or otherwise, not bothering because I know they are full of rubbish.
patrix
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by patrix »

I posted this on Facebook the other day:

Good morning. I will record myself dancing naked in the street and post here if anyone can provide me any ACTUAL scientific confirmation (a relevant repeatable observation or controlled experiment) that viru5es exist, that rockets can create thrust in an unrestricted vacuum such as space, or that the Earth orbits the Sun. Oh, and I find plenty confirmation that Earth is a rotating sphere btw. No problems there. :-)
*****

And again, no offense but I think I speak for most cluesforumers: No one here is interested in your unconfirmable beliefs regarding rockets. Read the thread will you, and if you have something that hasn't been examined already go ahead and post, if not please don't. And if you're right you will have the dubious pleasure of being able to watch me running naked down the street. :rolleyes:
Mansur
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by Mansur »

glg wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:20 am ...can you name anything practical, no matter how minute, that you think has originated and been devised solely by way of space travel?
Can you name anything practical, that you think would not be possible without access to space travel?
[I've been meaning to just put this idea out there for a while, so as they say, "you took the words right out of my mouth"; I don't recall anyone saying it so unambiguously. From a young age, all my life, whenever I heard or saw something about space businesses ( which was not a frequent occurrence), it was always on my mind. In a word: what the hell are they doing there?]

As to the matter at hand: I’m afraid kalliste insists on the feasibility of ‘space-travel/rocket’ not for the sake of humanity. He seems to have a special view (special at least here on CF) about our life on Earth in which the planetary or interstellar traveling is indispensable, in fact desperately needed.
kalliste
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by kalliste »

Mansur wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:36 am As to the matter at hand: I’m afraid kalliste insists on the feasibility of ‘space-travel/rocket’ not for the sake of humanity. He seems to have a special view (special at least here on CF) about our life on Earth in which the planetary or interstellar traveling is indispensable, in fact desperately needed.
Why are you trolling me? You are at it again, putting words into my mouth. I never said any such things. You're attacking my ideas by inventing nonsense I never said.
Newsbender
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by Newsbender »

kalliste wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 1:35 am Why are you trolling me? You are at it again, putting words into my mouth. I never said any such things. You're attacking my ideas by inventing nonsense I never said.
It's what he does, unfortunately, kalliste. Even to Simon. My advice is to ignore it and not rise to it.

I appreciate your posts, as polarizing as they might be. I might not completely agree, but it can stimulate activity on a topic to have an opposing view. As long as we can all be civil, of course :)
Mansur
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Re: Does Rocketry Work beyond Earth's atmosphere?

Unread post by Mansur »

Mansur wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:36 am
glg wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:20 am ...can you name anything practical, no matter how minute, that you think has originated and been devised solely by way of space travel?
Can you name anything practical, that you think would not be possible without access to space travel?
[I've been meaning to just put this idea out there for a while, so as they say, "you took the words right out of my mouth"; I don't recall anyone saying it so unambiguously. From a young age, all my life, whenever I heard or saw something about space businesses ( which was not a frequent occurrence), it was always on my mind. In a word: what the hell are they doing there?]
That was a bit silly of me. :) What I really meant to say was that since there is no point, no identifiable benefit 'going into space', such a thing was obviously never part of the 'agencies' objectives - and that it could perhaps be treated as axiomatic.

The phrase is often used (especially in relation to 'moon travel') 'if you can't do/make it, fake it' (maybe a variant of the 'fake it til you make it') - but this is misleading, because they never intended to 'do it'.

Although - now it seems - the latter may also be misleading, because although they've never tried it, maybe one day will... :wacko:
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