THE DERAILING ROOM

[Seneca]

I, for one, will say it is a 'Black & white' issue...

Black... I own you & I'm cutting off your dick skin because I 'love' you.
White... your body is your own. Do with it as you wish.

I think you are ignoring the amount of pressure that is probably used to convince parents that circumcision is good for the child. If you are convinced of that then consent doesn't play a role at that age.

It is not because we are skeptical and we have so much experience with manipulations that we become immune to every manipulation. At least I don't think I never will be.

It's more like
Black... Cut it off! It's good for him! Do it now! Or else you will regret it! We did it too and we are OK!
White... What's the rush? I should study the evidence critically and see what is really best.

[simonshack]

A lot of misinformation (disinformation?) being spread here.

Not a very nice way to start a post on this forum, Omaxsteve. We are NOT into disinformation here - quite the contrary, you see? And in this particular thread, many of us are mostly just asking questions - whereas all INFO (presented as such) being posted here, if erroneous, can immediately be challenged / or corrected by the next poster (unlike the 'INFO' being hurled by the mainstream 'news' media everyday straight into our living rooms - on unresponsive TV screens).

However, thanks for your comforting information that only a restrict, extremist section (stuck in the stone age, I presume? ) of the Jewish community features old rabbis sucking infants' penises after mutilating the same. Talking about the stone age, I think there might possibly have been a rationale for circumcision back then - when personal hygiene wasn't a big part of their "way of life", as you call it. But today? Do not most folks have access to soap and water - in our day and age?

As for the article (or extract thereof) that you posted 'in favor of circumcision' authored by New York Times columnist Hanna Rosin, I can see why you chose to omit the very introduction of the same:

Hanna Rosin - the New York Times, Oct 18, 2009
"Anyone with a heart would agree that the Jewish bris is a barbaric event. Grown-ups sit chatting politely, wiping the cream cheese off their lips, while some religious guy with minimal medical training prepares to slice up a newborn’s penis. The helpless thing wakes up from a womb-slumber howling with pain. I felt near hysterical at both of my sons’ brisses. Pumped up with new-mother hormones, I dug my nails into my palms to keep from clawing the rabbi. I am Jewish enough that I never considered not circumcising my sons."

Oh, ok - so the bris is a barbaric event, says Hanna. And the religious guy has minimal medical training. Wow - well, that can't be much of a concern, eh? After all, who needs a penis? Mother Hanna then basically says that she's been thinking it all over - and now thinks it's all perfectly o-ok and that she'd do it all over again - happily (huh?). Yup, all of Hanna's baby-boys will go through the barbaric ritual / ordeal. Gosh - is the woman a monster?

Hanna then goes on about how "scientific studies have proven that circumcision reduces the chances for contracting AIDS /HIV". Aha - so Hanna's no monster after all, she actually IS concerned about the health of her boys' health & penises! But wait: AIDS /HIV? Isn't that the most controversial disease of all times? Some even say it was an evil scheme / or hoax. Where can we possibly turn to - in order to learn the truth about AIDS/HIV? Of course, we should listen to BOTH sides. So hey, I have an idea: let's interview the world's two leading AIDS/HIV experts:

Robert Gallo______________________Peter Duesberg
the man who 'discovered' AIDS___ the man who 'debunked' AIDS

https://shadowmasterminds.wordpress.com ... ictitious/

Oh wait, we can't do that - or we might be tagged / and lumped in with those pesky 'Jew haters', won't we? Surely, if we dare suspect Gallo and Duesberg to have been staging an umpteenth dog-and-pony show - some folks will complain that we're painting the entire population of Jews as deceivers and crooks !

"It is also equally wrong, in my opinion, to paint the entoire population of Jews with the actions of the handful of rich and powerful that control the media and participate in the hoaxes and psyops that are regularly exposed here."

Good grief. I say ENOUGH - yes, ENOUGH with that worn-out, stereotyped lament. How many fecking times are we supposed to reiterate that NO ONE here is painting the entire population of Jews with the actions of the handful of rich and powerful ? Stop it - in the name of [*insert deity of your choice*] !!!

"I must say I am disappointed (not offended) that amongst so many otherwise intelligent people here do not see the fallacy and danger in stereotyping an entire group of people based on the religion they were born into."

See, there you go again - ffs! It's a friggin' broken record !

******************************

Omaxsteve on Muslims :

"Lets assume for a moment that there are was an actual cell of real terrorists, all of them from one identifiable group such as Muslims, that were actually found guilty of a horrific act of terror in which they killed thousands of innocent civilians; Would it be acceptable to label all Muslims as terrorists? Would it be okay to call it a "Muslim" conspiracy? True, in this hypothetical scenario all the terrorists were Muslims but what they have in common is that they are all terrorists. Their actions should, at least among open-minded people, NOT reflect on the majority of the Muslims who were not involved in any way shape or form with the terrorist activity."

Well, omaxsteve, I seem to remember a "news event" aired on TV back in 2001 (actually, a Hollywood movie I think it was) which featured precisely such a scenario: as the story went, "19 young muslims drove airplanes into American targets and killed 3000 people". Don't know if you've seen that particular blockbuster - but I can tell you that, since then (and for some unfathomable reason), the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THIS WORLD has been bombarded by the mainstream news media - on a daily basis and 24/7 - with the bizarre notion that the ENTIRE MUSLIM WORLD hates us all and is coming to get us!

But yes, I fully agree with you there. It's a silly notion. Even if that movie were true - to blame the entire Muslim world is totally stoopid.

[Critical Mass]

I will accept that your 'black & white' is a more accurate version than my own... but as I've never met a baby who's suffering from STD's I hope you grant my point still remains.

Humans try & use 'facts' to explain away their own selfish insanity... apparently, in Steve's case, even here on Cluesforum.

[Selene]

Black, white? I see full colour...

Religions/other "inspirational" groupthink traditions have been around across all peoples and times.

Every parent is responsible for his/her own offspring and yes, peer pressure may play a role, but cutting your boy in tears anno 2015..., may everyone please consider that immoral??

And if judging based on individual morality is not allowed (anymore), what separates us then from the psychos...?

And if judging based on individual morality is not allowed (anymore), what separates us then from the psychos...?

To answer your specific question.

Judging by an individuals morality is indeed allowed.

You will hopefully note that no-one in this thread has 'banned' morality.

Now, as I too have asked several specific questions, I would also like answers to them.

Very much so and I look forward to SteveO's answers. I wasn't implying that in the safe havens of skeptical thought silly banning would occur... I was dreaming away about the world outside, full of bullies and other inconfident power seekers...

Your questions are great.

EDIT: answered here to not push Critical Mass's great questions away.

[Critical Mass]

And if judging based on individual morality is not allowed (anymore), what separates us then from the psychos...?

To answer your specific question.

Judging by an individuals morality is indeed allowed.

You will hopefully note that no-one in this thread has 'banned' morality.

Now, as I too have asked several specific questions, I would also like answers to them.

[omaxsteve]

Finally on the subject of circumcision, it is not completely black and white issue. There are some very strong arguments on the anti-circumcision side, but it is not a totally one-sided argument;

I've already posted to a (hilarious) pro-circumcision site... however on average, per annum, exactly how many babies die from penile cancer or get HIV or other STD's or suffer from allegedly painful 'first time sexual experiences' or all the other pro-circumcision 'facts' that get brought up?

For a member of Cluesforum to say that this is not a 'black & white' issue is... troubling to me.

We're not a bunch of limp-wristed, weak willed, dithering academics here... we're meant to be the 'creme de la creme' of skeptical thought.

Are you seriously saying the unconsented mutilation of babies (or children in general) due to the paranormal 'religion' or 'culture' of one's parents is not a 'black & white' issue?

I ask again, what if you were a child born of Jewish (or Muslim or British Aristocratic) parents who doesn't want to be circumcised?
What legal protection does our wonderful 'modern society' provide these people?
Are babies really people... or just objects?



I, for one, will say it is a 'Black & white' issue...

Black... I own you & I'm cutting off your dick skin because I 'love' you.
White... your body is your own. Do with it as you wish.

I suppose one could also ask... should 'foreskin reconstruction' surgeries be offered for free?

May I dare ask the creme de la creme of critical thinkers if legalized abortion is also a black and white issue?

I know hundreds of men who have lived happy lives without foreskin, myself included. Having recently researched BOTH sides of the argument , combined with first hand experience, I have come to the conclusion that it is a fairly minor procedure. At the same time I will admit that there is very little evidence that there is any significant benefit either.

There are few issues where there is only one side of the story. Does anyone really believe that the Jews are the only ones to perform ritual procedures to their offspring? Are any of the critical thinkers here equally concerned with the practice of ritual baptism?
It seems that there have been a number of cases of trauma and death to baby during the Orthodox baptism ritual. https://randomrantsandravings.wordpress ... es-family/

Conclusion? : All religions are somewhat messed up and probably cause more harm than good. The common theme is that people choose to let others make decisions about how they live their lives, instead of thinking for themselves.

When everyone is thinking the same, its likely that no one is thinking at all.

Regards ,

Steve O.

[Critical Mass]

May I dare ask the creme de la creme of critical thinkers if legalized abortion is also a black and white issue?

You may... it's probably derailing a thread to do so... but you may. I would say once the baby is sentient then it should become a black & white issue. Late trimester abortions sicken me*. However conversely I have no particular feeling towards early abortion.

People usually conflate the two... like when they say neonatal circumcision is good for protecting babies from STD's!

Does anyone really believe that the Jews are the only ones to perform ritual procedures to their offspring? Are any of the critical thinkers here equally concerned with the practice of ritual baptism?

Nope... but then again no-one here, absolutely no-one, has said that "only Jews" perform cruel rituals!

That particular news story seems a likely hoax to me... however I'm sure such accidents have occurred.

No-one is arguing over the morality of accidents (Immersion baptisms are meant to be performed with the mouth covered)... they happen even with circumcisions.

We're talking about the practice of child mutilation... although I will grant that it's perhaps a 'minor' mutilation.

You appear to be saying that you 'kinda, vaguely understand that it's sometimes okay' to mutilate another helpless human being without their permission. That's clearly an insane position to hold.

Conclusion? : All religions are somewhat messed up and probably cause more harm than good. The common theme is that people choose to let others make decisions about how they live their lives, instead of thinking for themselves.

I won't go so far as to make some blanket statement about religions in general... although I probably agree with your position. Again I'm talking about a specific ritual. Whether it is being performed on 'Jewish' or 'Gentile' babies is, to be frank, irrelevant to me. Though seemingly it's important to you.



* However I would not 'ban' abortion for a number of reasons. Then again I've not called for a 'ban' on neonatal circumcisions either. It's people that need to change the way that they think & assess things. We don't need 'new laws' to 'fix a problem'.

[simonshack]

Omaxsteve,

We have a 9-page thread named "Thoughts on Christianity" - where you can talk about Christian issues to your heart's content:
http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... &start=120

"When everyone is thinking the same, its likely that no one is thinking at all."

Is this pet saying of yours somehow referring to this forum's essence / contents in any way or form ? If so, I will ask you to think again. So far, in this thread, I can't say you have contributed much of interest - other than repeated laments about "prejudice against the entire world's Jewish population", vague complaints about 'disinformation' - or taking cheap jabs at the honest and thoughtful critical thinking being performed here. And now, this utterly silly 'tit-for-tat' comment / derailment about Orthodox Christian practices...

Why so sullen and defensive ? Why so cynical ? (as in "skeptical of the motives of others") ? For crying out loud, this thread is not about YOU, is it? And it's not, I repeat, not about the entire population of Jews living on this world. Let us finally get real, frank & straightforward about it - and spell it out: it is about the ruthless Jewish Power Maniacs of this world (or 'JPM's). That's right, I hereby propose that we use this JPM acronym for those troublesome individuals - and we can use APM for American Power Maniacs and BPM for British Power Maniacs - and so on and so forth. I dearly hope this simple solution will curtail the endless, silly & tiresome complaints about "lumping an entire people / race / religion / culture" into our discussions focusing specifically on the ruthless / criminal /socio-psychopathic antics of the restrict bunch of 'extremist' Power Maniacs of this world.

As it is, this thread is not (or shouldn't dwell on, imho) so much about religion - even though Jumpy, on page 1 of this thread, asked you a simple question about the horrific Talmud. You finally answered that question on page 6:

"It is the Hassidic Jews that study and live by the preachings of the Talmud."

You then added:

"Interestingly, you will not find any Hassidic Jews occupying the positions of power and influence that would allow them to engineer any of the hoaxes or psy-ops that have been exposed in this forum. "

Ok, fine - thanks for the info, omaxsteve. To be honest though, and in spite of my admitted ignorance about religion in general, I highly doubt that any of the JPM's are any sort of observant / pious religious folks. To be sure, the 'Catholic' IPM's (the Italian Power Maniacs, here in Italy where I live) are no church goers - other than on official / papal occasions which are nothing but pathetic photo-ops. As I understand it, Jumpy was asking you about the Talmud - since some of its most shocking contents appear to mirror very closely the JPM's ...uh, shall we say... prevailing mindset. Then again, you may not be the right person to take this question, since you had never even heard of (what you yourself define as) the outrageous & unacceptable infant-penis-sucking antics of Hassidic rabbis. So, here's my own, simple question for you: what if it turns out that the JPM's are 'secret worshippers' of the extremist Talmud precepts? Wouldn't you, as a non-JPM Jew, be the first to raise an eyebrow and perhaps even openly voice your concerns about such a state of affairs?

I hope we can now get on - without further deviations - with this discussion, in our quest to (attempt to) comprehend the root causes for the indisputable / glaring prominence of JPM's in the higher spheres of power - and their almost unfailing / ubiquitous presence in the context of the many (and seemingly never-ending) mass deceptions sold to the unsuspecting public.

[Seneca]

I hope we can now get on - without further deviations - with this discussion, in our quest to (attempt to) comprehend the root causes for the indisputable / glaring prominence of JPM's in the higher spheres of power - and their almost unfailing / ubiquitous presence in the context of the many (and seemingly never-ending) mass deceptions sold to the unsuspecting public.

Thanks Simon, I hope so too.
I hope we can also answer some of the following questions: how do JPM's reproduce themselves? (How do non-JPM's become JPM's?). How do they interact with non-JPM's in their daily environment? (To understand why they aren't called out.) And maybe: can JPM's become non-JPM's before they die?

[Flabbergasted]

I hope we can now get on - without further deviations - with this discussion, in our quest to (attempt to) comprehend the root causes for the indisputable / glaring prominence of JPM's in the higher spheres of power - and their almost unfailing / ubiquitous presence in the context of the many (and seemingly never-ending) mass deceptions sold to the unsuspecting public.

So do I. This thread is moving so fast and in so many confusing directions one can hardly make a useful contribution.

Studying Judaism is obviously important, but religion does not turn Jews into "psychopaths" and is not what makes the Nutwork so powerful. I´d say that if Jews in general were truly religious, the Nutwork would encounter quite a bit of internal resistance to its projects.

The predominantly Askhenazi mafia, which I call Organized (or "organic") Jewry and which (like it or not) sits like an octopus right in the middle of the Nutwork, is not religious in any traditional sense (as described in the chapter by Smith I linked to on page 1). Organic Jews are held together by another and more mundane tribal-rabbinical-ethnic-emotional kind of cement, despite the vestiges of Judaism some of them flaunt.

It would be profitable to seriously look into how this cement was kept fresh and strong throughout the centuries, but that´s a challenge for someone more knowledgeable than I.

In any case, Jewish control of society was made possible or boosted by a number of important cultural and social changes, mostly from the 15th century on. Some of those changes may have been the handiwork of Jews, others may not. Among them...

- The advent of usury and banking as the new source of power
- The "medialization" of information and culture
- The creation of nationalities (including the wholesale adoption of the system of puppet rulers financed and handled by invisible trans-national groups)
- The transition from operative to speculative Masonry
- The possibility of multinational implementation of Pre-Marxist utopian schemes (Adam Weishaupt comes to mind, but he was hardly the first)
- The transfer of the fulcrum of military and industrial power to Masonic America.
- The massive apostasy and dumbing down of Christians
- The substitution of the Holocaust for the Immolation
- etc.

Jewish influence works best when exercised indirectly or stealthily. This makes democracy a very comfortable outward system for Organized Jewry, although Jews were certainly also the masterminds behind the Soviet experiment (as shown by the book I linked to on page 1).

The two key areas which have given Jews near-perfect control of society over the last 300 years are international credit and information (media, publishing, public education, intelligence). The rest is of far less importance. The ubiquitous presence of organic Jews in the management of psyops should surprise no one.

Some claim Jews are more intelligent (or shrewder?) than people of other ethnicities. This is impossible to prove or disprove reliably, and it seems unlikely. Nevertheless, according to Edgar Steele, a much-hated "radical white supremacist and anti-semite", Jews are in fact more intelligent than others! In his book "Defensive Racism" he describes numerous scientifically designed IQ tests yielding higher average scores for Jews (110) than for non-Jewish White Europeans (100) or Blacks (85), even when the tests were "culturally adjusted" by members of the ethnic group being tested.

But then, as some have pointed out: is there really such a thing as a "Jewish race"? Arthur Koestler gives plenty of historical evidence against the existence of a "pure" Jewish race, even of an unadulterated Askhenazi type. In answer to Jumpy´s question back on page 1, I think that, before we move on, we need to focus the discussion on what makes somebody a Jew. When I see Steven Rosenbaum, I know what I am looking at, but that´s not exactly an objective and scientific approach.

[omaxsteve]

Omaxsteve,

We have a 9-page thread named "Thoughts on Christianity" - where you can talk about Christian issues to your heart's content:
http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... &start=120

"When everyone is thinking the same, its likely that no one is thinking at all."

Is this pet saying of yours somehow referring to this forum's essence / contents in any way or form ? If so, I will ask you to think again. So far, in this thread, I can't say you have contributed much of interest - other than repeated laments about "prejudice against the entire world's Jewish population", vague complaints about 'disinformation' - or taking cheap jabs at the honest and thoughtful critical thinking being performed here. And now, this utterly silly 'tit-for-tat' comment / derailment about Orthodox Christian practices...

Why so sullen and defensive ? Why so cynical ? (as in "skeptical of the motives of others") ? For crying out loud, this thread is not about YOU, is it? And it's not, I repeat, not about the entire population of Jews living on this world. Let us finally get real, frank & straightforward about it - and spell it out: it is about the ruthless Jewish Power Maniacs of this world (or 'JPM's). That's right, I hereby propose that we use this JPM acronym for those troublesome individuals - and we can use APM for American Power Maniacs and BPM for British Power Maniacs - and so on and so forth. I dearly hope this simple solution will curtail the endless, silly & tiresome complaints about "lumping an entire people / race / religion / culture" into our discussions focusing specifically on the ruthless / criminal /socio-psychopathic antics of the restrict bunch of 'extremist' Power Maniacs of this world.

As it is, this thread is not (or shouldn't dwell on, imho) so much about religion - even though Jumpy, on page 1 of this thread, asked you a simple question about the horrific Talmud. You finally answered that question on page 6:

"It is the Hassidic Jews that study and live by the preachings of the Talmud."

You then added:

"Interestingly, you will not find any Hassidic Jews occupying the positions of power and influence that would allow them to engineer any of the hoaxes or psy-ops that have been exposed in this forum. "

Ok, fine - thanks for the info, omaxsteve. To be honest though, and in spite of my admitted ignorance about religion in general, I highly doubt that any of the JPM's are any sort of observant / pious religious folks. To be sure, the 'Catholic' IPM's (the Italian Power Maniacs, here in Italy where I live) are no church goers - other than on official / papal occasions which are nothing but pathetic photo-ops. As I understand it, Jumpy was asking you about the Talmud - since some of its most shocking contents appear to mirror very closely the JPM's ...uh, shall we say... prevailing mindset. Then again, you may not be the right person to take this question, since you had never even heard of (what you yourself define as) the outrageous & unacceptable infant-penis-sucking antics of Hassidic rabbis. So, here's my own, simple question for you: what if it turns out that the JPM's are 'secret worshippers' of the extremist Talmud precepts. Wouldn't you, as a non-JPM Jew, be the first to raise an eyebrow and perhaps even openly voice your concerns about such a state of affairs?

I hope we can now get on - without further deviations - with this discussion, in our quest to (attempt to) comprehend the root causes for the indisputable / glaring prominence of JPM's in the higher spheres of power - and their almost unfailing / ubiquitous presence in the context of the many (and seemingly never-ending) mass deceptions sold to the unsuspecting public.

Simon: I apologize for "deviating" the thread. I am actually surprised that this thread "struck a nerve" as I really do not hold Judaism, or any religion, in high esteem. My intention was to steer the discussion away from the hate mongering type of sites like the one that you linked to earlier in the thread (shadow masterminds). Talk about guilt by association. How can anyone lend any credence to anything written by someone with such obvious hate and prejudice?

I respect what this forum stands for and I think it would be beneficial if people of all religious backgrounds, and all ethnic groups could feel "welcome" here. My quote about "groupthinking" being no thinking at all was referring to religion(s) in general, and people who allow others to decide how they should live their own lives. If the ultimate goal is for the JPMs to be exposed, punished, and stripped of their influence, I believe that it is counter productive to alienate the 99% of Jews in the world that have no allegiance, and are equally affected, by the hoaxes and crimes that the JPMs are responsible for. For example, there are many people in my social circle that could stand to have their eyes opened by reading much of what is written here but I could not, in good conscience, point them to a site that tolerated prejudice against Jews or any other ethnic , or religious, groups.

I am not sure that I understand what you mean by speculating what if it turns out that JPMs are secret worshippers of the extremist Talmud precepts. If we are talking about the "JPMS" that have no problem fomenting wars that kill tens of thousands of innocents in open and public view, I don't see why anyone need be concerned with who, or what, they secretly worship. In other words their actions are already deplorable and despicable enough, there is no need to have to speculate about their religious practices and beliefs.

One of the strategies that I have discovered is how the JPMs use the "anti-semitism" argument to their advantage. It is clear that their is much benefit for them to be able to deflect an discredit much of the criticism against them by claiming that the proponents of such criticism are "jew -haters". While in some cases, such as the shadow mastermind site, people would be correct in ignoring the criticisms, I would not want anyone to feel the same way about this site.

A great hoax to uncover, and it would not be far-fetched, is to find that many of the "jew-hater" sites are in fact produced by the JPMs themselves, much like how dis-info is used to steer people away from the truth about 911 and other psy-ops.

[Seneca]

Simon: I apologize for "deviating" the thread. I am actually surprised that this thread "struck a nerve" as I really do not hold Judaism, or any religion, in high esteem. My intention was to steer the discussion away from the hate mongering type of sites like the one that you linked to earlier in the thread (shadow masterminds). Talk about guilt by association. How can anyone lend any credence to anything written by someone with such obvious hate and prejudice?

Nothing wrong with your intention, but if you relaxed a bit you would have noticed that the forum didn't need your help with this.The funny thing about that site is that they are very positive about September Clues and this media fakery research site, but they think Simon Shack is a jew, based on his photo and his dad's work at the UN.

[brianv]

Fuck it! We're all "jews". Now can we get back to cluesforum please. Talk about a kids playground!

[jumpy64]

Some of Selene's and Omaxsteve's objections give me the opportunity to clarify some other essential points to better understand the spirit of this thread for me. And also to find a possible answer to Flabbergasted's question "What makes somebody a Jew?"

Selene asks: does a Jewish race really exist? My answer is: I don't know. And frankly, I don't even care. I've already stated that what I think makes people different is mainly different conditionings. So what I do know is that a Jewish conditioning exists, and could be more dangerous than others. And not because Jewish-conditioned people are essentially worse than others. It's just their conditioning that's worse.

In this sense, I even consider them "victims" of a particularly dangerous conditioning, because they're actually the first to suffer its consequences.

You may say: "Wait! Didn't you say, in your original post, that they might be the 'perpetrators'? Yes, I did, but I didn't mean to say that I think all Jews are perps. Of course I meant those in positions of power amongst them. There are always dominant, predatorial (and yes, even psychopathic) people in every "race" or human group. What makes those in the Jewish-conditioned group more dangerous, in my opinion, is the more dangerous nature of the conditioning they receive. We can really call them JPMs, as Simon proposes. And of course such a "psychopathological" conditioning can be more easily embraced by other people with power-maniacal tendencies, especially since it comes under the guise of religion (or esotericism, for those non-Jews who opt to join freemasonry, which is Jewish-inspired.)

I mean, if you already have dominant, aggressive and narcisistic tendencies, it doesn't help to be taught since childhood that your race is superior, the "chosen one", and that others exist only to serve you and you can do to them whatever you want.

Of course, since most people are good-natured (I know I'm going against a common belief here, but that's what I think), deep down they don't really embrace such negative concepts.

But something happens also to the vast majority of good, decent "Jewish" people. Even though their good nature, and often even their intellect, goes against the racist, supremacist conditioning they have received since childhood, it continues to work at least at an unconscious level.

I mean, if especially in your formative years you've been taught to mistrust and disrespect (and ultimately fear) the "goym" (actually considered less than human), and you've been inculcated (through rigid rules and rituals, and even through induced early traumas like circumcision) a strong "racial" identity, deep down you tend to stick to your own people, defend and favor them, and maybe even take pride in the more questionable achievements of "your people".

In this sense, I believe, even good, decent "Jewish" people can condone their psychopaths and thus be their "accomplices", at least at an unconscious level

I disagree with Flabbergasted on this: I think that everything starts in the mind, so it's important to discover what mindset could give certain people even a religious justification to create the "nutwork". It's easier to exploit people mercilessly when you consider them inferior in some way or other.

[Flabbergasted]

I disagree with Flabbergasted on this: I think that everything starts in the mind, so it's important to discover what mindset could give certain people even a religious justification to create the "nutwork". It's easier to exploit people mercilessly when you consider them inferior in some way or other.

I never said that "things do not start in the mind", or that "it's not important to discover what mindset could give certain people even a religious justification to create the nutwork", or that "it's not easier to exploit people mercilessly when you consider them inferior in some way or other". You must have extrapolated that on your own account.

I think you should overcome your reluctance or laziness, or whatever it is, and read the text on Judaism I made available on page 1, especially in response to your questions. There is a section on the positive, religious understanding of being a "chosen people" (the so-called "scandal of particularity"), a topic which is clearly of your interest.

As I said, I am not endorsing every line in that text, but trying to make the point that religion per se (in its orthodox form), though essential to our understanding of Jewish mentality, may be closer to the solution than to the problem. It is a little bit like blaming the science of pharmacology for what Big Pharma does with it.