Human Lie-abilities

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
Post Reply
simonshack
Administrator
Posts: 6776
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: italy
Contact:

Human Lie-abilities

Unread post by simonshack » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:30 am

*


Human LIE-abilities

The ability to lie is inbred in most people of this planet. Everyone of us has, of course, at some stage of their lives, spinned a lie. To lie to someone may be, in extreme occasions, a good thing: You may lie in order to protect an innocent friend in danger, to avoid hurting someone’s feelings or even to prevent a looming conflict. Such harmless and well-meaning lies, however, are not to be confused with the substance of my present, temptative essay.

More often than not, human lies are self-serving deceptions sustained by greed, ambition and the lust for power: these attributes are the trademark of generally frustrated and unstable minds. Unfortunately, our society has let such intrinsically shameless folks climb the ladders of power - practically unchecked. We could rightly call those individuals “social misfits” or just “compulsive liars”. Such people spin lies foremostly to establish their ‘dominance’ over other human beings.

Animals, in stark contrast, use ‘lies’ solely for survival purposes: A metamorphosing fish will stealthily blend with the surrounding scenery (a visual ‘lie’) in order to fool its predators’ visual perceptions - purely to save its own skin. A spider will spin an invisible web (another ‘visual lie’) to capture wayward flies but, of course, this is the spider’s sole means of survival.

Now, what if the compulsive liars and potentates of modern times have learned the animals' lesson and applied it for 'dominance' purposes? “VISUAL LIES ARE THE FOOLPROOF TOOLS TO FOOL THE PREY”

In English, to be called “foxy”, “hawkish”, a “weasel” or a “snake” is generally unflattering but some people take it as a compliment for their shrewdness or audacity. Similarly, in Italian, calling someone a “furbo” has both negative and positive connotations; in Italy a 'furbo' can be, indistictly, a wicked/unscrupulous man - or a smart/street-wise man. There seems to be, in our present times, a cross-cultural moral conflict in defining what 'smartness' really means. Is a smart person one who best keeps his knowledge for himself or one who best uses it to deceive his peers? It seems that the latter is the current, tacitly accepted notion. This state of originates from a deep-rooted problem : since the dawn of times, most people on this planet have been falling for compulsive liars capitalizing on the power of being believed.

In fact, history shows that people are willing to PAY to be FED with fake tales. Just consider the marketing of religions. Mankind has constantly been bamboozled by religions, for the benefit of a gang of “foxy folks”. Just imagine how much money has been made by charlatans promising eternal life - and how many churches and powergroups have been founded with donations in the name of Faith. As a child, I lived in the deeply catholic Sicily where I witnessed processions of the Madonna. A carnival-like wooden chariot of the Virgin Mary was carried around the streets while even the poorest villagers would offer their most precious belongings (gold chains, silver cutlery and the like) to the local parish. In hindsight, I see it as a perfect example of people willing to PAY to be fed with lies.

Television is no different. Lies are daily on offer to the viewers, who willingly PAY to be fed with them. Unsurprisingly, when someone exposes these lies, the “foxy folks” who run those news media corporations will resort to medieval tactics, calling their opponents "religious believers of conspiracy theories". However, the lie-ability of the news media is now for all to see. Let’s all rise up and bring the castle of lies down. Humanity will be all the better for it.

simon shack
http://www.septemberclues.info

godzilla
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:43 pm
Contact:

Unread post by godzilla » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:47 am

Excellent idea Simon. But one stone in the path is, as you say, that throughout history people have been known to pay to be lied to. I think the propensity to accept lies as part of our self/world image comes in to play as we are given social belief systems to be included as part our self identities when we are little children. Most of those beliefs are based on lies in the first place and are meant to prepare us to accept a life in which we are controlled by authority. I do think however that we are also at a time where humanity is coming of age to shake many of those chains of the unhealthy kind. Perhaps the time is ripe. I also think most of us here on this forum are here just for the purpose of helping awaken our fellows to the truth of what is happening to us so that we can shake our collective chains.
"It's not a matter of what is true that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true." - Henry Kissinger

godzilla
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:43 pm
Contact:

Unread post by godzilla » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:53 am

godzilla 4 Oct 25 2009, 02:47 AM wrote: Excellent idea Simon. But one stone in the path is, as you say, that throughout history people have been known to pay to be lied to. I think the propensity to accept lies as part of our self/world image comes in to play as we are given social belief systems to be included as part our self identities when we are little children. Most of those beliefs are based on lies in the first place and are meant to prepare us to accept a life in which we are controlled by authority. I do think however that we are also at a time where humanity is coming of age to shake many of those chains of the unhealthy kind. Perhaps the time is ripe. I also think most of us here on this forum are here just for the purpose of helping awaken our fellows to the truth of what is happening to us so that we can shake our collective chains.


Just my ideas. But the important thing is to bring the castle of lies down. I'm happy to be on board, although my research abilities I think pale in comparison to most of the others here.
"It's not a matter of what is true that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true." - Henry Kissinger

Racingwiththemoon
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:24 am
Contact:

Unread post by Racingwiththemoon » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:48 am

simonshack @ Oct 25 2009, 03:30 AM wrote: *


HUMAN LIE-ABILITIES

The ability to lie is inbred in most people of this planet. Everyone of us has, of course, at some stage of their lives, spinned a lie. To lie to someone may be, in extreme occasions, a good thing: You may lie in order to protect an innocent friend in danger, to avoid hurting someone’s feelings or even to prevent a looming conflict. Such harmless and well-meaning lies, however, are not to be confused with the substance of my present, temptative essay.

More often than not, human lies are self-serving deceptions sustained by greed, ambition and the lust for power: these attributes are the trademark of generally frustrated and unstable minds. Unfortunately, our society has let such intrinsically shameless folks climb the ladders of power - practically unchecked. We could rightly call those individuals “social misfits” or just “compulsive liars”. Such people spin lies foremostly to establish their ‘dominance’ over other human beings.

Animals, in stark contrast, use ‘lies’ solely for survival purposes: A metamorphosing fish will stealthily blend with the surrounding scenery (a visual ‘lie’) in order to fool its predators’ visual perceptions - purely to save its own skin. A spider will spin an invisible web (another ‘visual lie’) to capture wayward flies but, of course, this is the spider’s sole means of survival.

Now, what if the compulsive liars and potentates of modern times have learned the animals' lesson and applied it for 'dominance' purposes? “VISUAL LIES ARE THE FOOLPROOF TOOLS TO FOOL THE PREY”

In English, to be called “foxy”, “hawkish”, a “weasel” or a “snake” is generally unflattering but some people take it as a compliment for their shrewdness or audacity. Similarly, in Italian, calling someone a “furbo” has both negative and positive connotations; in Italy a 'furbo' can be, indistictly, a wicked/unscrupulous man - or a smart/street-wise man. There seems to be, in our present times, a cross-cultural moral conflict in defining what 'smartness' really means. Is a smart person one who best keeps his knowledge for himself or one who best uses it to deceive his peers? It seems that the latter is the current, tacitly accepted notion. This state of originates from a deep-rooted problem : since the dawn of times, most people on this planet have been falling for compulsive liars capitalizing on the power of being believed.

In fact, history shows that people are willing to PAY to be FED with fake tales. Just consider the marketing of religions. Mankind has constantly been bamboozled by religions, for the benefit of a gang of “foxy folks”. Just imagine how much money has been made by charlatans promising eternal life - and how many churches and powergroups have been founded with donations in the name of Faith. As a child, I lived in the deeply catholic Sicily where I witnessed processions of the Madonna. A carnival-like wooden chariot of the Virgin Mary was carried around the streets while even the poorest villagers would offer their most precious belongings (gold chains, silver cutlery and the like) to the local parish. In hindsight, I see it as a perfect example of people willing to PAY to be fed with lies.

Television is no different. Lies are daily on offer to the viewers, who willingly PAY to be fed with them. Unsurprisingly, when someone exposes these lies, the “foxy folks” who run those news media corporations will resort to medieval tactics, calling their opponents "religious believers of conspiracy theories". However, the lie-ability of the news media is now for all to see. Let’s all rise up and bring the castle of lies down. Humanity will be all the better for it.

simon shack


In the human world, none of these things actually work without violence,
intimidation, aggression, threats . . .

to put them in place, to back them up, and to keep the cover-ups going.

This is also why much of our populations historically have lived in fear of
religion -- from Rome to Utah. And why it is so often a tool used by
patriarchy.

Of course, our "free press" has long been controlled by the CIA or whatever
third or fourth generation intelligence agency has taken over their work now.
Monopoly now makes control even easier.

While I agree largely with your overall premise of deception, the fish and
the spider have built in systems given by nature. The human has options.

How many of us would choose to spend our time doing the work which is
required to have control over someone else? A healthy human being --
as you've pointed out -- doesn't normally follow such a course.

But the fish and the spider are also not going to be concerned with controlling
the entire ocean, nor the entire planet -- and maybe even parts of the
universe?

Star Wars and militarization of the skies suggest that some among us do
have that goal. The moon is the highest hill as LBJ pointed out in the late
1950's.

Since them, I think, it's been proven that we are earthbound.

hoi.polloi
Administrator
Posts: 5061
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:01 pm

I think if we lie, we are being asked to get lied to. I make it part of my effort in self-improvement to add honesty in my daily habits, speech and relationships to others.

My young experience is that a lot of people don't like to hear the truth and actively deny, shame, attack or otherwise act fearful toward it.

I have also learned that people can only offer pure truthful honesty when they choose to - and in no other circumstances.

If we want to make the world safe for the truth and honesty, we must make a collective effort to show tolerance toward one another in our various explorations of this world.

timothymurphy
Member
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:51 pm
Contact:

Unread post by timothymurphy » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:49 pm

WARNING: slightly ranty post coming...

thanks simon for your thoughtful essay and call to action.

i have been pondering how to approach sharing your work etc.

the thing is, everyone is familiar with , at least, rumours of the moon landings hoax, and notions of positive propaganda fed to allied countries to raise morale in ww2, and various dopy and misguided public service announcements made during 1950s, 1960s (about how nuclear waste is good for you, or whatever...)

but it is easy to look back on it as being anachronistic stuff, from when we were all naive and innocent, and still thought the goverment was like our parents, so cuddly and authoritative. - and the moon landing hoax can seem benign and funny.

it is hard for people to make a leap, to understand that they might be being fooled right now, just as people were being fooled in the past - to realise we might be just as naive and gullible as 1940s people or 1960s people.

As we all know, "they" not only want to control everyone, they also want to control "the resistance" to their control, which is why there is the official 9-11 truth movement etc.

It's like "they" don't mind people being aware of the truth, just so long as it can be revealed at a controlled pace such that people are innoculated from ever reacting to the truth with shock, and will have found ways to rationalise the truth away before they have a full picture of the truth.

SO...
I am wondering how to get september clues into my local newspaper. I understand national newspapers are out of the question. But with some flukes, and maybe the boss being away, a decent article could actually get into a local paper.

SHOCK: local 9-11 victim does not exist and never existed.
- (front page headline?)

but realistically, all i can envisage is that the article is a feature on 9-11 conspiracies in general, that only obliquely raises the truth. - and might this not simply serve as part of the innoculation to truth?

is it better to drip feed truth whenever you can, or save it up for a big shock?

Another perspective:

simon, i'm sorry to bring religion into it but,

didn't Jesus always speak in parables so that right up to his cruxifiction, none of the diciples understood what was going to happen? - and they didn't understand that he would rise from the dead either, and then they got a big shock!! (they didn't belive their eyes, even when he was right in front of them on the road to Emmaus.)
There were never rumours and "conspiracy theories" going around that jesus might get cruxified and rise from the dead, he saved it up, and then all the diciples believed the truth of what he had been saying (ie being the son of god etc) - and they then successfully spread their message all over the ancient world, despite opposition from the powerful ROman empire,
(and many of them ended up as martyrs, but we won't go into that...)

anyway, that wasn't a perfect presentation of the story, but in short, i think there is something to learn from the early christians for how to spread a radical message that is good for the common people, but that the authorities don't like.

(please don't ban me for proslytising or something!!)

fbenario
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:49 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Human Lie-abilities

Unread post by fbenario » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:05 pm

They might also get a bullet in the head.
Someone Would Have Talked? Someone Would Be Crazy

Would covert operatives whose work involves subverting democratic governments abroad—including violent coups such as the one that brought down Chilean President Salvador Allende in 1973—hesitate when ordered to participate in comparable activities at home?

We’re constantly told that no such thing could happen in the good ole USA (certainly not in the deaths of JFK, RFK, MLK, for example), if for no other reason than that it is impossible to keep such plots secret.

Or, in the common parlance: “Someone would have talked.”

The logic goes: since no one has come forward to describe their role in such plots, therefore no plot has existed.

In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. People are coming forward all the time to provide, if not the whole story, crucial bits and pieces that together would lead us to awareness of a variety of covert doings, some clearly nefarious. For example, scores, perhaps hundreds of credible eyewitnesses have cast doubt on the official “lone kook” scenario that is a staple of every domestic assassination.

But these whistleblowers are quickly discredited, suppressed, or worse. From time to time people even come out of the national security establishment to testify to such wrongdoing, but they almost always pay a heavy price –which of course discourages others from bearing witness.
...
The bottom line here is that public servants can go to jail for trying to inform the public about the truth of what their government does—and, bizarrely, for lying to the government by falsely promising to lie about government secrets while actually telling the truth about what they had seen from the inside.

As for “someone would have talked”……baloney. Almost nobody talks. And for good reason.

http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/04/10/someon ... -be-crazy/

Post Reply