The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.
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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:38 am

Thank you for mentioning that character Jose Bonaparte, funded by National Geographic, a notoriously creepy organization — especially from the perspective of looking back on it knowing the Moon Landings and a number of other things driven by the "photographic record" were fixes, hoaxes, scams, what-have-you.

I will have to look more into it, but I just wanted to mention that it reminds me of "the bone wars" — a time when two apparently quite unlike-able people were competing in the Wild West for dinosaur bones. It is not clear if their rivalry drove ever more spectacular stories from their own bums or if they were actually magicians working in concert (a favorite pastime of stage magicians is "the plant" and perhaps, we can surmise, it would work even better if two magicians pretended to be rivals as they worked in concert) or if they were even real people at all. Though, some simple "digging" might uncover facts on the latter.

It's true that many museums and universities have "reproductions" — with the bones being so very precious that they cannot see the light of a normal day?

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by TimR » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:44 pm

Yes, Cope and Marsh (the Bone Wars guys) are partly who I had in mind when I mentioned "red flags." I was thinking what Miles Mathis would do with these two characters, based on their spook markers... but as I said, that could just be the nature of holding high rank in the science of that era, not necessarily a complete takedown of the science itself.

In brief, Marsh was the nephew of the wealthy banker George Peabody, whose fortune and donations ensured Marsh a professorship at Yale.

Cope was son of a wealthy Quaker shipping merchant (the Quakers coming under attack by Miles as a front for Intel.)

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by anonjedi2 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:21 pm

hoi.polloi » November 13th, 2016, 10:38 pm wrote:with the bones being so very precious that they cannot see the light of a normal day?
Right. These fossils apparently survived millions of years of harsh weather, soil changes, extreme cold and hot periods, climate fluctuations, disturbed surroundings, etc. but now apparently a little sunlight will destroy them!


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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by ICfreely » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:50 am

From doctors engineering "diseases" to paleontologists engineering "dinos"

Here's a gem from Men's Health
Your Favorite Dinosaur Never Even Existed, Says Jurassic World Scientist
Did you grow up loving dinos like the brontosaurus and the triceratops? Well, you may want to sit down for this
By Brian VanHooker June 12, 2015 ... er-existed
Jurassic World is out today, and for the fourth Jurassic Park film, the big baddie dinosaur is the Indominous Rex, a hybrid of several dinosaurs plus some modern creatures.

In other words, a fake dinosaur.

Fans are divided over this, but in truth, the Indominous Rex is just the latest in a long tradition of fake dinosaurs.

What a shocker!
We consulted Dr. Jack Horner, a paleontologist with the Museum of the Rockies and Montana State University, and author of a new book, How to Build a Dinosaur. He was the technical consultant on all of the Jurassic Park films, and the real life inspiration for Dr. Alan Grant, the character played by Sam Neill in the movie.

“I helped make the fake dinosaur,” he said of Jurassic World's Indominous Rex, which he explained is a “transgenic dinosaur”—meaning, it was derived from several different dinosaurs.

Dr. Horner also knows a thing or two about fake dinos.
I bet he does.
He helped disprove the existence of a few dinosaurs we grew up believing had once roamed the earth.

Here are 5 dinosaurs that might’ve been as fictional as any Hollywood movie character.
Might’ve been?
When it was discovered: 1879
When it was discovered to be fake: 1903

The brontosaurus once ranked along with the T-Rex and triceratops as the most identifiable of the terrible lizards. But as it turns out, it never really existed.

Paleontologist Othniel Marsh “first found the back end of one of the long-necked sauropods and he named it Apatosaurus,” Dr. Horner tells us. “And then he found the front end of another dinosaur, and he named it Brontosaur. It was later discovered that the front end and the back end belonged to the same kind of dinosaur.”

The mistake was discovered in 1903, but the name brontosaurus stuck around for decades. Why? No one is entirely sure, but it could have something to do with the names. Brontosaurus is translated as “Thunder Lizard,” which is awesome, while apatosaurus means “Deceptive Lizard,” which kind of sounds like the dinosaur is an asshole.
Asshole indeed.
When it was discovered: 1889
When it was discovered to be fake: 2010

The triceratops lost its standing as a real dinosaur, at least in part, because of Dr. Horner.

“I sent a team out for ten years and they collected more than 100 triceratops skulls,” he says. “We had everything from babies to full-blown adults.”

What he and fellow scientist John Scannella discovered by investigating these skulls is that the triceratops never existed, and was in fact a younger version of a torosaurus, a larger, three-horned dinosaur with holes in its crest.

Dr. Horner's claim is still disputed. “There are people who don't like it,” he says. “But they haven't presented any evidence to get this disproven.”

Wow! More than a hundred dino skulls? I call bullshit.
When it was discovered: 1924
When it was discovered to be fake: 1990, 1993

What most people understand as the velociraptor is not a velociraptor at all. The actual velociraptor, Dr. Horner says, “is a little dinosaur, about four feet long” and is also covered in feathers.

“The one in Jurassic Park is based on a dinosaur named deinonychus,” Dr. Horner says. “The two dinosaurs are very similar looking, but the deinonychus is a bit bigger.”

So why did Michael Crichton and Steven Spielberg defy science [FICTION] and opt to call something a velociraptor when it wasn’t actually a velociraptor? “It was an easier name to say,” Dr. Horner speculates.

Speculates indeed.
When it was discovered: 2006
When it was discovered to be fake: 2009

Like the triceratops and torosaurus, the dracorex was once thought to be a separate species from the more well-known pachycephalosaurus, the dome-headed dinosaur seen in The Lost World: Jurassic Park.

But then Dr. Horner and a colleague “wrote a paper showing that the dracorex is the juvenile, and pachycephalosaurus is the full-grown adult.”

The reclassification of dracorex came as a blow to a rather surprising group of people: Harry Potter fans.

The full name for dracorex was Dracorex hogwartsia, meaning “dragon king of Hogwarts.” Dr. Robert Bakker, who discovered the creature, named it for J.K. Rowling’s fictional wizard’s school.

How fitting.
When it was discovered: TBD
When it was discovered to be fake: 2011

Even though most of the dinosaurs on this list were once thought to be real, but are no longer, Dr. Horner clarified that they are not actually fake. Instead, they are classified as “nomen nudum” a Latin phrase which basically means “we shouldn't have named it".

WTF? :wacko:
As for the Chickenosaurus though, Dr. Horner says, “Now that’s a fake dinosaur!

The Chickenosaurus, an idea proposed by Dr. Horner, is “a genetic engineering project to take a bird and see if we can't give it back some of its ancestral characteristics that made it a dinosaur,” which birds are anyway.
If you say so, Jack!
The project involves taking a chicken and giving it “a long tail, and transforming their wings back into arms and hands and give him teeth and things like that.”

What's surprising about the Chickenosaurus is how far along they have actually gotten with creating the animal.

“A group in Wisconsin figured out the tooth thing, and just recently, a group at Yale and Harvard figured out how to turn the beak back into a mouth-like structure, like a dinosaur,” Dr. Horner says.

He isn’t sure if giving teeth to chickens “is a good idea or not, but they did it.”

A Chickenosaurus may not sound as exciting as a Velociraptor, Tyrannosaurus Rex, or Triceratops, but it may be the closest thing any of us will get to seeing a dinosaur in the foreseeable future.
I still stand by my MOBUS Theory! B)

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by ICfreely » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:44 am

This Philanthropy Roundtable article on Jack Horner is riddled with red flags.
The Dinosaur Discoverer
How a misfit revolutionized paleontology—with a big boost from philanthropy
By Ari N. Schulman ... discoverer

Jack Horner likes to break things. Precious things—like dinosaur bones, or the occasional 80-million-year-old egg.

A lot of people think of a dinosaur bone “as a treasure, just the way it is,” he says, leaning forward and staring intently, “even though it’s obvious that there’s more information inside than there is outside.” Against resistance, Horner proved that in some specimens overlooked by other scientists there is much more than meets the eye. Which is fitting, because he was nearly an overlooked specimen himself.

Jack Horner revolutionized paleontology with what he found inside dinosaur fragments. He is equally renowned for a series of landmark field discoveries of fossils, and for a body of theorizing that upended many previous ideas about dinosaur behavior. The scientific adviser for the Jurassic Park movies (and inspiration for the paleontologist character in those films, Dr. Grant), Horner’s is the kind of singular, eccentric scientific mind that even a Spielberg fictionalization can’t do justice to.

Born a year after the end of World War II, infancy found Horner on the banks of a desert river—not quite in a basket and reeds, but living in a canvas tent in Montana. Along with his parents, his tentmates included a serpent: a bull snake who paid rent in pest control. Outside was a deafening rock-crushing machine that churned out product for the family gravel business.

They eventually moved into a more ­middle-class existence. But Horner was never fully tamed. He blew out the windows of the family basement with a chemistry experiment, built a Van de Graaff generator and a Tesla coil, and launched a rocket fueled by zinc and sulfur at the local airport. He found his first dinosaur fossil at age eight.

These successes were diversions from a tortured educational experience that continued well into adulthood. While he was winning high-school science fairs, he was failing in class after class. In one he received a D-minus-minus-minus, which his teacher invented for the occasion because, as he told Horner, “he never wanted to see me again.”

Owing in part to Montana’s forgiving state university admissions policy in the 1960s, Horner was able to enroll at the University of Montana as a geology major. But he flunked out of college seven times. His education was also interrupted by a tour of duty in Vietnam, during which he says he kept sane by polishing the mirror for a telescope he was building.

When Horner finally “finished” college, he had no B.S., no B.A., indeed little academic credit of any sort. But he had a lot of knowledge and an unbroken determination to become a dinosaur paleontologist. He even had a “thesis of sorts”: research and data which would later be the foundation for three published papers. But with no degree and a near-zero GPA, he worked for a while as a truck driver, then along with his brother bought and ran the family gravel business.

He continued to hunt fossils in his spare time, along with his college friend and longtime dig collaborator, the late Bob Makela. And Horner applied for paleontology jobs at every museum he could think of. Again and again. Finally he landed a position, low-ranked and low-paid, as a technician at Princeton’s Natural History Museum.
Sheesh. Talk about failing up!
One summer early on, when he needed $10,000 to cover the costs of his dig season, Horner took his first stab at a grant application. His best (actually only) idea was to write to the Rainier Brewing Company and request sponsorship, “explaining that Bob and I drank a lot of Rainier whenever we were in the field.” Amazingly, Rainier came through with the funding, but Princeton officials told him “there is no way in this world you’re going to take money from the Rainier Brewing Company.” In the end, the university supplied him with $10,000, and Rainier sent 125 cases of beer.

Horner’s talents in the fossil beds got him promoted to a research position, and soon he had his first publication in the prestigious journal Nature, and was running his own projects. By 1982, he’d been hired by Montana State University in Bozeman to launch and head a dinosaur research program at the Museum of the Rockies.

On the day of his fortieth birthday in 1986, the University of Montana granted the dropout an honorary Ph.D. He received word simultaneously that he’d been awarded a MacArthur Foundation “genius grant.” By the 1990s, Horner’s dinosaur research program had become one of the most productive in the world, regularly dynamiting tenets of conventional wisdom.
Way up.
Good mother lizard

Horner’s first big discovery came in 1978. In Montana for the summer dig season, he and Bob Makela visited an amateur collector who’d found some fossils and wanted an opinion on them. Horner identified them as belonging to an adult duck-billed dinosaur, and of no particular significance. They were headed out the door when the collector picked up a coffee can full of tiny fossils and fished out two small bits for an additional opinion. Horner believed they belonged to a baby duck-bill.

Baby dinosaur specimens were almost unknown in the Americas. So Horner and Makela drove out to where the fossils had been collected. They found a nest with the babies still inside, the first such discovery anywhere. Within days, they had excavated 15 nests. As the dig expanded it became clear they were on to an entire colony, and that the colony was one of several in a vast nesting area used across dino generations. Over 20 years, Horner and his team excavated hundreds of eggs, including some containing the first fossilized dinosaur embryos ever discovered. He also recovered the skeletons of scores of babies, juveniles, and adults at the site that came to be known as Egg Mountain.

These finds, fleshed out with a compelling analysis by Horner, provided the first strong evidence that dinosaurs, unlike reptiles, but like birds and mammals, had cared for their young. The specimens belonged to a new genus that Horner christened Maiasaura, or “good mother lizard.” Horner found that Maiasaurs had a high growth rate and metabolism consistent with at least partial ­warm-bloodedness, and migrated seasonally in herds to avoid predators, to a breeding ground 60 miles away. This work transformed understanding of dinosaur behavior, in particular demolishing the view that they had no family or social lives.

Horner’s instincts have led him to many other great finds. In 1984, he and a grad student uncovered a layer of ancient ash that turned out to be the edge of a bone bed over a mile long, containing the jumbled remains of no less than 10,000 Maiasaurs. (Horner interprets this killing field as an entire herd wiped out in a volcanic explosion, the bones later scrambled by a flood.) And his crews have found several of America’s most famous Tyrannosaurus Rex skeletons, including five discovered in just one summer.

Plucking groundbreaking finds from a vast landscape of rubble and common fossils takes cultivated perception. Many fragments of baby dinosaur bones had actually been found by collectors decades before, but misidentified as belonging to some unknown species of small animal, with scant attention paid. Horner anticipated the revolution latent in those practically invisible scraps of fossil in a coffee can. He’s fond of quoting Branch Rickey’s aphorism about baseball: “Luck is the residue of design.”
What a "lucky" motherf**ker!
The making of a dino prodigy

If discerning patterns invisible to others are why Horner isn’t still driving a truck for a living, the discernment of others has also played a role in his success. His mentors looked past his outward failures and saw Horner as Horner could see certain fossils: something remarkable that to everyone else looked common.

It was Horner’s parents who encouraged his love of learning as a boy, and drove him around to ­fossil-hunting expeditions. It was a Montana geology professor who, blissfully ignorant of Horner’s grades, recognized a budding intellect behind his science-fair project and encouraged him to apply for college. It was a college adviser who wrote letters of support that allowed him to keep ­re-enrolling each time he flunked out. It was his supervisor at Princeton who saw the scientist in the technician. It was institutions like the Museum of the Rockies, the University of Montana, Montana State University, the National Science Foundation, and the MacArthur Foundation that took the researcher who lacked any degree at all and, on the strength of his work, finally admitted him into the circle of academic legitimacy.

And all along the way, it has been philanthropists who underwrote his research even when conventional funding sources closed their doors to him. The NSF provided critical funding in Horner’s early years as head of MSU’s paleontology program, and continues to offer some support. But NSF grants are often capricious and limited to narrow projects. For unproven ideas, for iconoclastic approaches, for general support, Horner (and thousands of other scientists) relies more on philanthropists than on the science funding bureaucracies.

Philanthropy has been especially important in bringing science to the public. While Horner was building a renowned dinosaur research program in the 1980s and 1990s, the museum had no space to display even its most impressive new specimens. Enter Tom Siebel. Siebel was the founder of software firm Siebel Systems, which was acquired by Oracle in 2006. He is active in philanthropy, giving to numerous scientific, educational, and community programs, and founding the Meth Project, a public education and advertising initiative that helped cut Montana’s meth abuse by two thirds, and has expanded to seven other states (see “Lassoing Montana Meth,” May/June 2007)

Siebel has been a part-time resident of Montana for decades, and owns and operates the 75,000-acre Dearborn Ranch there. When he first visited the Museum of the Rockies, he says, he was struck by “not only the research that they were doing,” but by the way they illustrated the course of life “over a couple hundred million years in a very accessible manner.” The Museum of the Rockies was able to take complicated information and tell a story.

Siebel decided to help the museum grow. With a $2.3 million gift and hands-on involvement, he helped Horner open the Siebel Dinosaur Complex in 2007. The new wing lives up to Siebel’s vision of a museum experience that’s more than butterflies pinned to a wall. Walking into the hall, you’re met first by low light and an exotic soundscape—the chirps, squeaks, and caws of insects, dinosaurs, and other animals of a wild habitat long gone. A long-necked sauropod strides high above the hall. And two gaudily feathered and colored Deinonychus predators clamber up its neck, intent on murder.

In the next room, the complex turns from immersion to investigation. A row of Triceratops skulls in increasing order of size and animal age illustrates the sequencing techniques that Horner innovated to produce novel conclusions about dinosaurs’ growth patterns and life cycles. The largest skull has a pair of prominent holes absent in the others. The exhibit explains how Horner showed that these holes were not, as first believed, the indicators of some new, larger tri-horned species, but rather a trait that Triceratops developed later in their lives. A separate display shows a recreated Triceratops, with one half displaying the skeleton and the other covered in mock skin. Ringed around the room are similar specimens and exhibits for myriad other species.
The making of a "dino prodigy" requires Big Money!
The power of philanthropy

Paleontology funding needs fall into three major categories: field excavations, staff and equipment for research, and museums where findings can be displayed. The latter category is the most expensive, and the most reliant on donor support. The Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History closed its fossil and dinosaur hall in 2014 for a massive, five-year-long renovation funded largely by a $35 million gift from David Koch. The new hall will feature a specimen from the collection of the Museum of the Rockies—one of the world’s largest and most complete T. Rex skeletons, excavated by Horner’s team 25 years ago.

Donors are also very important in the other two categories: digs and study programs. Though Montana State University covers some of his overhead, most of Horner’s work actually depends on grants and donations. His entire program, including lab equipment, salaries for staff, summer digs, and stipends for grad students, has cost only $11 million over its now third-of-a-century operation. Horner expresses gratitude to the university and the NSF but notes that “quite frankly, my donors are more engaged than the government is.”

The ability of philanthropy to respond quickly, and flexibly, without suffocating rules or red tape, often makes it invaluable. An example from the summer of 2000: During the dig of an Edmontosaurus, a crewman wandered off from the site to eat his lunch in solitude on a ledge. Glancing up, he saw sticking out of the cliff face a bone he recognized as belonging to the foot of a T. Rex.

A massive excavation ensued. It was funded primarily by former Microsoft chief technology officer Nathan Myhrvold. When the specimen had finally been prepared in a plaster jacket, the crew had no way to move it out. It weighed 3,000 pounds, and they were miles from any roads. Enter donor improvisation number two: Philanthropist Terry Kohler lent a helicopter belonging to his Windway Capital Corporation to remove the piece. Kohler, a former Air Force pilot, flew the bird himself. He continued to help fly fossils out of Horner’s digs for many years, and gave $650,000 to analyze them.

Even with the helicopter, the jacketed specimen turned out to be too heavy to lift. As a result, the crew had to fracture the Tyrannosaur’s femur. But this didn’t panic Horner, and indeed he turned it into another great discovery. After the bone had been sawed in half, one of Horner’s students, Mary Schweitzer, took the opportunity to peer inside.

Using acid to dissolve hard mineralizations, Schweitzer discovered something shocking: preserved blood vessels and cells—the first soft tissue ever found in a fossil, and a 68-million-year-old one to boot. The bone’s interior also revealed a kind of tissue, previously known only in birds, that suggested that the animal was female (a determination usually impossible to make from dinosaur bones) and had died within a week or two of laying eggs.
Big Big Money!
Battling for bones

Philanthropy has been intertwined with dinosaur research from the beginning. As John Noble Wilford recounts in The Riddle of the Dinosaur, the two towering patrons of the original dinosaur fossil expeditions to the American West were Othniel Charles Marsh, a paleontology professor at Yale with an inherited fortune, and Edward Drinker Cope, an independent scientist in New Jersey with a smaller but also substantial personal war chest he was willing to apply to fossil hunting. In 1877, each received shipments from amateur collectors in Wyoming Territory and the new state of Colorado.

The scientists recognized the specimens as residue of the recently discovered class of creatures called dinosaurs, and knew there must be more. Thus began a protracted battle between the two men, each seeking to purchase the loyalty of the collectors and to assemble expeditions to find and clean out the biggest fossil beds before the other could. At one point, one of Marsh’s men smashed fossils he couldn’t collect in order to keep Cope’s men from getting them. But both made significant scientific contributions, describing nearly 2,000 new genera and species between them, until Cope’s funds were exhausted 12 years on and the battle of the bones drew to a close.

At the start of the twentieth century, Andrew Carnegie created a new wing for his Pittsburgh museum and commanded his chief collector, Earl Douglass, to find something “big as a barn” to fill it. Douglass soon obliged with a nearly hundred-foot-long specimen of a long-necked herbivore, one of the largest ­land-animal skeletons ever found. Carnegie liberally funded the massive excavation at what is now Dinosaur National Monument in Utah, and the new species was dubbed Apatosaurus Louisae after Carnegie’s wife. Douglass later turned up another new species, nearly as giant, which was christened Diplodocus Carnegii. It ended up in the new Pittsburgh wing, and replicas were dispatched to other museums far and wide.

The Siebel Dinosaur Complex dramatically illustrates Jurassic and Cretaceous periods at the Museum of the Rockies, home to the largest collection of dinosaur fossils in the world.
Old Money!
Digging with donors

Montana is a newish state but an ancient land. Tens of millions of years ago the area was perched on the edge of an inland sea that teemed with life. The petrified layers of coast and ocean sediment laid down in that age now jut upward, eroding away.

On a bright July day, I trailed behind Horner’s dusty pickup out to a dig site 30 or so miles from Bozeman. The site is stunning: much of the lush movie A River Runs Through It was filmed on the Gallatin River, in view of the dig, and beyond the river the peaks of the Rockies rise into view.

The dig is perched on a hill, private property. The landowners have donated its use to Horner’s team summer after summer for decades. Horner comes out periodically to check on progress. On a day-to-day basis the operation is overseen by his collaborator Bob Harmon. Like Horner, Harmon is a former amateur collector, a one-time carpenter who Horner brought into his crew. The hammer-swinger rewarded Jack by finding the T. Rex sticking out of the cliff; the specimen was named “B. Rex” in his honor. Today Bob is chief preparator at the Museum of the Rockies.

But it’s really an MSU grad student, Cary Woodruff, who’s running this show. The work is providing material for his thesis on development of the Diplodocus. He’s trying to find out when in childhood and adolescence the animals had their “growth spurts.” Here the crew is unearthing a sub-adult Diplodocus that Woodruff describes as “remarkably complete.” The site previously yielded an Apatosaurus.

To get down to the layer of rock where the bones lay, the diggers use powered jackhammers. But once in the bone zone, all work must be done by hand. During my visit the crew is nibbling through a thick sandstone that comes off not in chunks but little flakes, with an individual worker sometimes excavating just a few handfuls over the span of a day. This chiseling requires sitting in an awkward position and repeating the same motion for hours straight—during which the romance of encountering a creature that lay hidden in stillness for epochs softens a smidge.

But the work passes amidst lively conversation, ambling from the rivalry between geology and biology to the asteroid extinction hypothesis to, of course, the relative merits of the various Jurassic Park movies. It continues later at the dinner table, where the crew toys with a coprolite (fossilized dino doo) that serves as a table weight preventing trays of food from sliding down the precipitously slanted buffet.

Often leading these conversations are Ed and Janet Sands, loyal Horner donors who are on a summer road trip and have stopped in at the dig for a spell. During the day, Ed is down on the ground, chiseling away with the rest of the crew, while Janet is perched on the elevated rim of the site, making lovely field sketches and watercolors of the excavation. The Sands have a family foundation based in Santa Barbara, and they were introduced to Horner by Ed’s brother Dave, a fellow professor at MSU who researches biotech solutions to crop pathologies. Dave and his wife Kippy are also longtime donors to Horner, along with several members of their extended family. (In the acknowledgements of Horner’s latest book, he simply thanksthe Sands families.”)

Ed and Janet also fund research on human origins. They have worked closely with Donald Johanson, the Arizona State University paleoanthropologist who was one of the discoverers of the three-million-year-old hominid skeleton popularly known as Lucy. At the dig, Janet is in the midst of planning the second Santa Barbara Symposium on Human Origins at the city’s Museum of Natural History.

Horner usually comes to the Sands when some fairly modest and definite need arises in his program, often involving graduate students. These students, says Janet, “just need a little helping hand.” “More than a dinner,” she laughs, pointing to the meal that she and Ed prepared and offered up this evening. “Then later you’ll see what that student has discovered and published. And that’s really, really exciting.”

Cary Woodruff, one of their current beneficiaries, describes how funding for his Diplodocus digs, the labwork, staff time, and his conference travel all depend on the support of donors like Ed and Janet. “You want to talk about a result—bang for your buck—you literally get to launch a student’s graduate career.”

Horner has been “very, very, very encouraging of young scientists,” Janet later says, noting his­ open-mindedness and his emphasis on building an effective team. She argues that “historically, a lot of science is done in a silo,” but rather than shielding his own work Horner engages with researchers across disciplines—and, crucially, with students. “Education’s a great multiplier,” she says. Students “affect their colleagues and other students over a lifetime career.”

Ed and Janet Sands see a special mandate to support science education, because they believe science has a unique ability to inspire young people to learn. They also fund Science Matters, a public-private partnership that aims to make inquiry-based science part of the elementary curriculum in Santa Barbara’s public schools. Janet has worked closely with students and says that the science courses are always the ones that get them most engaged. “It’s just an eye-opener. These kids know they’re on the bottom end of the social scale, yet you give them an academically excellent science curriculum and you can just see them straighten up when they come to class—‘they think I’m smart.’ It’s amazing.”
An a-maze-ing eye-opener!
The power of being dyslexic

One morning during our sauropod dig, the Make-A-Wish Foundation brings a young boy out to the site, and he gets to join in as a junior paleontologist for a few hours. Horner does this kind of thing often. He once flew overseas on a few days’ notice to meet another boy in the late stages of a terminal illness.

Horner’s zeal for helping young people may come in part from a determination to do better for his students and other children than most of his teachers did by him. It was not until he was in his thirties that Jack discovered why he had struggled so mightily during his school years: He has dyslexia. When he was a student, the condition was not widely known or understood by educators.

Horner’s disability is usually described in media reports as mild. But, he tells me bluntly, “I can’t read. I honestly, absolutely cannot read.” He points up at a nearby sign. “When I read anything, I have to read every single letter, one letter at a time.” In part, he says, it’s a matter of lacking short-term memory, so that it can be difficult even to remember all of the letters in a word by the time he gets to the end of it.
If that's the case, then Jack's not dyslexic he's f**king illiterate!
Horner is involved with groups that gather dyslexics to discuss how they can succeed in a lexical world. He is also connected to researchers like Harvard’s Vanessa Rodriguez who are working to help teachers learn how to recognize young students like himself. Sometimes teachers will bring these pupils to Horner, and he’ll take them out to his digs. “It’s pretty easy to tell when a kid really wants to learn something,” he says, even if he “fails all of his tests, or can’t read.”

Many of Horner’s observers see his learning disability as conferring a paradoxical advantage, like the heightened ability of the blind to hear. In Horner’s case, he seems to have an acutely increased spatial intelligence. “Talk about learning differences, my God, he’s got thinking differences,” says Tom Siebel. “He just does not think like the rest of us.” Horner certainly seems to have an uncanny ability to pick significant finds out of crowded fields of information.

Rather than reading, he says, he sees and thinks in images. He even tries to teach his literate students “how to be dyslexic.” He tells me, “That is the only way dyslexics learn: you have to interact with things.”

In addition to breaking bones open to examine their internal microstructures, Horner has brought sophisticated imaging technologies such as CT and LIDAR scanners to possible fossil sites. He has pioneered new visual analyses of excavated bones and used the results to draw dramatic conclusions about dinosaur biomechanics, metabolisms, and growth rates. Horner sees spatial intelligence as about something more than just vision. He’s expanded his approach into a kind of general theory of inquiry, which he’s variously described as “imaginative” or “being dyslexic.”

At one point, Horner draws in a deep breath and says, “I think people read too much. I really do. I think they just read way too much, and they end up thinking like people before them. So they end up with a lot of preconceived ideas of what is and what isn’t.” He encounters this problem with his students, who “just regurgitate that same old stuff.” He tells them “if you quit reading and start thinking, and start using your brain to actually acquire your information visually...then you can come up with other ideas.”

A real fa-king Einstein!
Einstein Name Meaning
German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): habitational name from any of various places named with a Middle High German derivative of einsteinen ‘to enclose or surround with stone’. In the unsettled social climate of the Middle Ages even relatively minor settlements were commonly surrounded with stone walls as a defense against attack. Jewish (Ashkenazic): ornamental name composed of German ein ‘one’ + Stein ‘stone’.
The blinders of conventional wisdom

Horner—who has coauthored ten books for children and adults, and is highly fluent in the scientific terminology and theories of his discipline—is being more rhetorical than literal in some of this. He is deeply serious, however, about getting people to recognize how often their lines of inquiry are constrained by conventional thinking. His irreverence about breaking dinosaur eggs is a case in point. In the 1970s, he “couldn’t find a museum in the world” that would let him break open eggs or bones. So he found his own, and “just so happened to have a ball-peen hammer.”

It was the same story with baby dinosaur remains. Many paleontologists believed that for some reason or another they had just not been preserved in the fossil record. When Horner was first shown the bits of baby Maiasaura skeleton, he quickly realized that this belief had become self-fulfilling: paleontologists had only been looking for bones in certain kinds of geological formations because those were the only ones where they’d found them before. Finding Maiasaura eggs in a different sort of formation simply meant that the dinosaurs which lived and died mainly in coastal areas had migrated far inland to breed. This quickly improvised insight prompted him to keep looking when he found the first nest, realizing that where there was one there might well be more.

Horner believes the same blinders have delayed many other developments in the field, including the recent discovery of fossilized soft tissue. Much of the reason soft tissue hadn’t been found before is that the prevailing theories of fossilization deem its preservation impossible. So no one looked for it.

Even the word dinosaur, Horner believes, has hampered the study of these creatures. Meaning “fearfully great lizard,” the term coined soon after they were discovered has prejudiced generations of paleontologists into believing that dinosaurs must be fundamentally reptilian, delaying recognition of the myriad traits they more closely share with birds.

In recent years, he’s taken on one of dinosaur paleontology’s most sacred cows: the idea that Tyrannosaurus Rex was a menacing predator. To the consternation of countless young fans, Horner suggests that T. Rex may have been a plodding, opportunistic scavenger—less lion than hyena. And not prone to chasing Jeeps full of terrified scientists.

One paleontologist, asked if she agrees with this theory, says, “Oh, not at all.” She outlines her case for the established idea of T. Rex as apex predator. Then she adds, “But I think it’s great that he’s raising the question.”
Chasing the chickenosaurus

Walking the walk, Horner has not shied from public reversals of his own beliefs over the years. One dwarfs the others in audacity. In 1997, Horner praised Jurassic Park’s depiction of dinosaurs, but pooh-poohed the movie’s premise, saying that the creatures “are long gone from this planet and they will never return.” The idea of bringing them back to life “is fantasy in the first degree.” But in a limited way, Horner is now trying to do just that.

In a 2009 book and a TED Talk that’s been viewed 2 million times, Horner describes his plan. While the DNA molecules of the dinosaurs themselves have long since degraded, much of the information they contained is preserved in their living descendants—birds. By manipulating the genomes of birds in their embryonic stage, researchers could eventually flip on and off the right combinations to recreate certain dinosaur traits. Or some reasonable facsimile.

Horner calls the hypothetical critter a “dino chicken,” or “chickenosaurus.” He describes his role in the project as “instigator and recruiter.” Among the team he’s assembled are researchers at McGill University who are working on restoring the tail and teeth that birds lost long ago. Horner has received a number of philanthropic donations for the project, including $1 million from George Lucas. He thinks a few significant traits of dinosaurs could be reverse-engineered within three to five years.

Horner is a bit evasive on just what the point of this project is. He has talked about the raw scientific knowledge that could result, possible medical applications, but also, whimsically, about the fun of having a dinosaur as a pet, or of the addition of a new special item to the menu at KFC. The imaginative and inspirational value of the project seems to be its first appeal for him. Children, he says, can’t get interested in the nitty-gritty of genetics and developmental biology “unless they can tie it together with something they know. And dinosaurs are a thing they know. We can teach them just by talking about the dino-chicken project.”

Something similar, he thinks, is true for grown-ups: Regardless of the project’s success or failure, it could unify efforts around an ambitious scientific goal, with benefits that can’t be entirely foreseen in advance. Dino Chicken is Horner’s answer to the Apollo Project. But in keeping with his suspicion of entrenched thinking, he doesn’t mind the opportunity to tick off establishment science either. When he puckishly tells me that the project “irritates a lot of people, and a lot of them are scientists,” I sense that this is not incidental to why he’s pursuing it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Philanthropy and eccentricity

Jack Horner is a living testament to one of the great lessons from the history of science: discovery is intertwined with the peculiarities of personality and human interest. Advances in paleontology and other sciences have often been driven by the idiosyncrasies of its leading figures, and by inflammation of the imagination and the spirit along with engagement of the mind. Philanthropists, much more than government agencies and other science bureaucracies, have been able to recognize and reward the deeply personal spurs behind much scientific advance.

“When I would go to the NSF and ask for money for a good project,” says Horner, “they would oftentimes say, it is a good project, and we’d like to fund it, but can you do it for half as much?” But when he went to private donors the response would often be, “are you sure this is enough?” When people put up their own money, “if they really like what you’re doing, they want to see the project succeed.”

Public funding agencies are bound by safe, established views, by political priorities, by bean-counting measurements, and by a desire for certainty. Their priorities are rarely ambitious or at all imaginative, says Horner. Government grant proposals must be narrow, describable in detail even before they begin, and able to show immediate results. (Horner shares this experience with many other practitioners at the leading edge of other fields of science. See, for instance, Philanthropy’s interview with Leroy Hood.)

Horner’s philanthropic donors are vastly more willing to be flexible and patient, to take more risks, to pursue aims that are open-ended, and even sometimes, as Horner describes the dino-chicken project, a little “wacky.” That’s why private support has been so important in his career.

Philanthropy’s tolerance for adventurous inquiry has been a perfect match with Jack Horner. Near the end of our last meeting, I ask the unlettered professor if there are questions I should have asked him. He furrows his brow, pauses for a long moment, and answers, “I don’t know.” Smiling, he adds, “I like any good question.”

I'm of the opinion that Jack Horner and his dinos are as fictional as any Hollywood movie character.

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by guivre » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:15 pm

Speaking of the "Bone Wars", hot off of the wire, blurring fantasy and other fantasy:

Read an excerpt from Michael Crichton's 'Dragon Teeth'
The world will get a newly discovered novel from the late author Michael Crichton next year, and USA TODAY has a first look at the jacket and an exclusive excerpt below.

Dragon Teeth will be published by Harper, a division of HarperCollins, on May 23. It’s about a favorite Crichton subject — dinosaurs — only this time it’s historical fiction set during the 1870s and the “Bone Wars” between two real-life paleontologists in the American West. ... /93887780/

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by TimR » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:21 pm

It is interesting they talk about Horner being such a poor student and having dyslexia. Perhaps it is just a case of insensitive schools not recognizing his ability. However, it reminds me of the late paleontologist "Dinosaur Jim Jensen" of Utah. He was said not to have finished high school, and yet somehow became an "adventurer" (his word), traveling the world, leading paleo expeditions. Eventually Brigham Young gave him a PhD in honor of his contributions. (See the book "Hunting Dinosaurs," c. 1992.) What does it mean? Perhaps nothing, just speculating it might be something to look out for.

I came across an interesting academic paper- ... o_Life.pdf

Some good tidbits of information. E.g., Ernst Barbour (former "disgruntled" Marsh lab assistant) tell us that Marsh was deceptive in his reconstructions... using a mix of materials in his plaster of paris to make it look like real fossil bones, indistinguishable even by scientists. So that was going on in the very beginning, decades before the current simulacra produced by the Chinese fossil factory that supplies the world's museums today.

Also see Fig. 7, the photo of Barnum Brown and a preparator assembling fossil fragments. PERHAPS some expert could glean something more than a layperson, but it almost looks like a joke photo to me... The fossils are practically pulverized, or like a load of large gravel from the Home Depot. Even the larger pieces they have begun gluing together, look a bit comical, like they will not amount to much resembling a bone.

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by ICfreely » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:14 am

TimR » November 23rd, 2016, 10:21 am wrote:ICFreely-
It is interesting they talk about Horner being such a poor student and having dyslexia. Perhaps it is just a case of insensitive schools not recognizing his ability.
Insensitive schools not recognizing his ability? What ability? Ability to make shit up whole-cloth? Surely you jest, TimR!

This character:

...found his first dinosaur fossil at age eight. :puke:
While he was winning high-school science fairs, he was failing in class after class. :blink:
...flunked out of college seven times. :wacko:
When Horner finally “finished” college, he had no B.S., no B.A., indeed little academic credit of any sort. :huh:
...with no degree and a near-zero GPA... :unsure:

Despite his atrocious academic "record" (taken at face value of course) our modern Mary Anning:

...landed a position, low-ranked and low-paid, as a technician at Princeton’s Natural History Museum.
... Montana State University in Bozeman to launch and head a dinosaur research program at the Museum of the Rockies.
...University of Montana granted the dropout an honorary Ph.D.
...awarded a MacArthur Foundation “genius grant.”

What does it mean?

His bio is as nonsensical as his "discoveries"? Stupid is the new smart? Theories abound.


IMO dyslexia isn't a learning disability. It's a "super power." :P

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by TimR » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:44 pm

You're slightly misreading me, but I'm not sure it's worth getting into the weeds over it. I was basically agreeing with you, and adding that this Jim Jensen might be an interesting parallel to the career of Horner.

I still highly recommend the linked academic paper in my post above, hope some will check it out...

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:17 am

I don't know about the rest of it yet, but even the opening part is pretty interesting:
When a 1907 article in Science criticized the AMNH for catering too much to popular tastes, the anthropologist Franz Boas penned a response that explicitly defended the museum’s institutional heterogeneity. The AMNH, Boas argued, had to engage in more than just specialized scientific research. It was also responsible for creating “healthy and stimulating surroundings” where ordinary New Yorkers could “employ their leisure time,” thereby serving to counteract “the influence of the saloon and of the race track.” To succeed on this score, museum exhibits must, “first of all, be entertaining.” Few among the city’s idle masses would seek out the genuine moral and educational benefits of natural history, he suggested, had these not first been carefully sugarcoated and made widely palatable: “The people who seek rest and recreation resent an attempt at systematic instruction while they are looking for some emotional excitement.” Given that the AMNH had unveiled the world’s first freestanding Brontosaurus just two years before, it is no surprise that Boas singled out dinosaurs as an especially valuable public relations asset. “When the installation of a new immense mounted skeleton of some extinct animal is announced,” he wrote, “people will flock in crowds to the museum to see the specimen.”
Hmmmm! :unsure:

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by TimR » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:43 pm

Yes, one thing that makes me suspicious about dinosaurs is their PR value. They may be real, but if they were not, someone "would have had to invent them," as they say.

E.g., the first dino skeleton display was for the Philadelphia museum c. 1858. A hadrosaurus, built by the Brit Waterhouse Hawkins. Attendance boomed, and they were enabled to move to a larger building. So, that must have gotten some minds working on how to exploit dinos.

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by anonjedi2 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:31 am

First Dinosaur Tail Found Preserved in Amber
To scientists' delight, the incredible appendage from 99 million years ago is covered in feathers. The tail of a 99-million-year-old dinosaur, including bones, soft tissue, and even feathers, has been found preserved in amber, according to a report published today in the journal Current Biology.
So, we've suddenly gone from 65 million years to 99 million years in just one jump? I am continuously amazed that nobody seems to question the accuracy of any dating methods which claim these tall tales! How do they know it's 99 million years and not 96.5 million years old? Or 87 million years old? How can anyone who operates with even an ounce of logic not ask these simple questions? Am I really expected to believe that scientists can determine the age of something with that level of accuracy when it comes to something allegedly that old? Based on what? Some theoretical nonsense about carbon dating?

Also, how convenient that it just happens to be covered in feathers. More evidence to prove that ever elusive Dino-Bird theory they're trying to push to solidify their evolution story. ;)

Also - Couldn't this "tail" preserved in amber be the tail of ... well ... any animal at all? :puke:

Here's an idea, let's just say this thing is real and not a complete hoax. Why can't it just be the tail of a bird?
The research, led by paleontologist Lida Xing of the China University of Geosciences, was funded in part by the National Geographic Society's Expeditions Council.
<_< "Dr. Lida Xing's" website -
CT scans and microscopic analysis of the sample revealed eight vertebrae from the middle or end of a long, thin tail that may have been originally made up of more than 25 vertebrae. Based on the structure of the tail, researchers believe it belongs to a juvenile coelurosaur, part of a group of theropod dinosaurs that includes everything from tyrannosaurs to modern birds...

The current study concludes that if the entire length of the dinosaur tail was covered in the type of feathers seen in the sample, the dinosaur "would likely have been incapable of flight..."

The weakly developed tail feathers also suggest that the owner of the Cretaceous tail falls somewhere lower down on the evolutionary tree of theropod dinosaurs, "perhaps a basal [primitive] maniraptoran," Xida suggests, referring to the subgroup of coelurosaurs that includes oviraptorosaurs and therizinosaurs...
Sounds like more of the speculative nonsense we're used to. Nobody questions the legitimacy of these Chinese finds, considering all the fraud in the industry that comes out of China? :( ... 45504119=1

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by ICfreely » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:27 am

File this under: Paleoncology?

'Ridiculously rare' case of cancer found in fossilized leg
A 240-million-year-old turtle was afflicted with a type of bone cancer resembling one that strikes hundreds of people each year.
By John Pickrell
PUBLISHED February 7, 2019

About 240 million years ago in what is now Germany, a turtle that hadn’t yet evolved a shell developed something much less fortuitous: a kind of bone tumor that afflicted one of its hind legs.

The fossilized tumor, described today in the journal JAMA Oncology, shows that even in the Triassic period, at around the time the first dinosaurs appeared, animals could be plagued with mutations in their DNA that led to cancer.

The find is exciting, because “cancer is ridiculously rare in the fossil record,” says study leader Yara Haridy, a paleontologist at Berlin’s Museum of Natural History. “Most cancers are in soft tissues, and although we can see sometimes evidence of soft tissue pathologies on [fossil] bone, cancer would be really hard to diagnose that way.” (Today, for example, a virus is causing sea turtles to suffer from life-threatening tissue tumors.)

Missing link in turtle evolution

The shell-less turtle relative sporting the tumor, Pappochelys rosinae, was first revealed to the world in 2015. At the time, the Chihuahua-size species was hailed as the final piece in the puzzle showing how turtle shells evolved from flattened ribs and belly bones into the armored body boxes they are today.

Among them was a thighbone with a puzzling growth that came to Haridy’s attention last summer. She then recruited Asbach to help conduct a micro-CT scan to look inside the fossil bone and see its internal structure, which allowed the team to determine the type of cancer involved.

The study team determined that the ancient growth was a kind of bone cancer called a periosteal osteosarcoma—one that “looks almost exactly like osteosarcoma in humans,” says coauthor Patrick Asbach, a medical doctor and radiologist at Berlin’s Charité University of Medicine...

Cancer’s very ancient origins

Scientists have found several other very ancient cancers in fossil fish and an amphibian, and a non-cancerous tumour in a slightly older mammal relative called a gorgonopsid. However, this new find is the earliest cancer ever discovered in an amniote, the group that includes reptiles, birds, and mammals.

ant in Pennsylvania displays a petri dish of cisplatin, a chemotherapy drug containing… Read More
Photograph by James L. Amos

The discovery of an osteosarcoma helps dispel a belief held by some experts that diseases change so much over time that “current disease manifestations cannot be used to recognize past afflictions,” says coauthor Bruce Rothschild, a professor of medicine at the University of Kansas and a research associate at the Carnegie Museum who has studied cancer in dinosaurs.

“We are not very different,” Rothschild says, “from all those with whom we share and have shared this planet.” ... eontology/

Goshdarnit. I thought for sure that the Mayo Clinic’s Paleo Diet Protocol was going to be the key to cancer prevention. :(

Paleo diet: What is it and why is it so popular?
Is the Paleo diet, an eating plan modeled on prehistoric human diets, right for modern humans?
By Mayo Clinic Staff

A paleo diet is a dietary plan based on foods similar to what might have been eaten during the Paleolithic era, which dates from approximately 2.5 million to 10,000 years ago.

A paleo diet typically includes lean meats, fish, fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds — foods that in the past could be obtained by hunting and gathering. A paleo diet limits foods that became common when farming emerged about 10,000 years ago. These foods include dairy products, legumes and grains.

Other names for a paleo diet include Paleolithic diet, Stone Age diet, hunter-gatherer diet and caveman diet.

The aim of a paleo diet is to return to a way of eating that's more like what early humans ate. The diet's reasoning is that the human body is genetically mismatched to the modern diet that emerged with farming practices — an idea known as the discordance hypothesis. ... t-20111182

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by Kham » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:06 am

Dinosaur cancer specialist — must be extremely rewarding work. Thanks for that, I’m still laughing.

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Re: The (non-religious) dinosaur hoax question

Unread post by ICfreely » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: Engineering disease
by ICfreely on Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:31 pm

I must say Scientific American’s virus CGI is one of the finest ones I’ve ever seen. The colors really pop. Perhaps a collaborative multi-disciplinary approach can advance the viral evolution theories. Virologists and paleontologists could trace the origins of the Bird Flu Virus to the Chickenosaurus. The possibilities are limitless.


I was only kidding of course. Sadly, Mr. Grose isn’t.

Varicella-Zoster Virus: Less Immutable Than Once Thought
Charles Grose

May 1999, VOLUME 103 / ISSUE 5

VZV = varicella-zoster virus
ORF = open reading frame

Ancestral herpesviruses were alive and well when dinosaurs ruled the planet.1 These ancient herpesviruses obviously were more successful than dinosaurs at adaptation during the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods (200 million to 70 million years before the present). Molecular phylogenetic analyses suggest that the progenitor varicella-zoster virus (VZV) arose some 70 million years ago, probably in small mammals during the Paleocene Epoch1 ,2 (Fig 1). VZV has subsequently co-evolved with early humankind, developing its biphasic mode of survival as chickenpox (primary infection) and shingles (reactivation). In prehistoric times, shingles was the most likely means by which the virus was maintained within small populations of humans. In other words, an elder would develop shingles and thereby transmit virus to the children who had not previously contracted chickenpox. Thus, the properties of VZV latency and reactivation have served the virus well as it co-evolved with humankind during the great migrations out of Africa into Asia and later into Europe. As populations increased and urban centers developed, VZV was more commonly transmitted as chickenpox directly from child to child residing in relative proximity, especially within elementary schools in contemporary society.
... ... 103/5/1027

Pangaea and the Out-of-Africa Model of Varicella-Zoster Virus Evolution and Phylogeography
Charles Grose
DOI: 10.1128/JVI.00357-12

Because herpesviruses are ancient species, a more detailed knowledge of the geologic epochs can both clarify and illuminate the likely timetable of herpesvirus evolution (4). The Paleozoic era extends from 550 to 251 mya, beginning with the Cambrian period and ending with the Permian period. The Permian Basin in Texas is named after a large deposit of rocks from the Permian period. The Permian period was notable for the appearance of the supercontinent Pangaea. On Pangaea, amniotes (vertebrates) evolved into ancestral groups of synapsids (mammals) and sauropsids (reptiles and birds). The Permian period was followed by the Mesozoic era, which included three periods from 250 mya to 65 mya. The Triassic period (250 to 200 mya) has become well known because of the emergence of the dinosaurs. The Triassic period was followed by the Jurassic period (199 to 145 mya). At the beginning of this period, Pangaea had separated into Laurasia and Gondwanaland, while at the end of this period, Gondwanaland would separate into South America, Africa, and Antarctica. The Jurassic period was followed by the Cretaceous period (145 to 65 mya). The latter period ended when the asteroid struck the Caribbean and the temperature of the planet declined. The dinosaurs disappeared and the mammals emerged.

Yet another flight of fantasy cloaked in scientific clothes.

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