Current Hungary Riots

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.
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warriorhun
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by warriorhun » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 am

Dear fbenario,

There are no current riots in Hungary in 2012. Those riots happened in 2006.

However, the 2006 Autumn riots in Budapest were totally, very real! I know: I was out there on the streets on the 23rd of October, 2006, rioting myself, and I wasn't alone if you know what I mean... ;)

I am now trying to locate the video I saw back then on the Hungarian news site Index.hu, a video on which I appear for a few seconds.

UPDATE: I have found the video:

http://index.hu/video/2006/10/23/csata_a_belvarosban/

Also my humble person appears on one of the pictures of following picture gallery of 23rd of October, 2006. (but I won't tell you which one for privacy reasons. Also, back then in 2006, rioting youth were hunted down by the police based on such pictures. Of course, not anymore, but old habits die hard...) :

http://index.hu/gal/?dir=0610/belfold/okt23_3/

That was a great, historic day, for a lot of Hungarian youth it was like 1956 the 2nd! I felt so proud to be Hungarian!

BTW the psyop part was not photo-manipulation in this case, it was rather the Media's narrative. Did you notice the "Fascist scum" going berserk on the pictures/videos? No? Well, according to the Media, that's totally happening on those imageries... :blink:

As far as faking news are concerned, AP and CNN later (in 2008) partly used 2006 Budapest riots imagery for "covering live" riots in Belgrade, Serbia:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/wo ... es.more.ap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSjbX1W37sg

I close my comment with:
-GYURCSÁNY TAKARODJ! (favourite shouting slogan during the Budapest riots) :)

Flabbergasted
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:41 am

I just had a look at the pictures of the riot in Hungary in 2006.

Most of them display that same curious “red theme” which is peculiar to the Oslo pictures.

Image

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In comparison, the 911 imagery seems to be predominantly light blue + orange/yellow/light brown (the “Naudet standard”):

Image

Even the street lamp is yellow in broad daylight! :blink:

brianv
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by brianv » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:41 pm

[..]the power of the written word (or any symbol) constantly reiterates the continuity of that which it symbolically represents. Written words - signs, labels, books, notes, etc. are the epitome of the continuity of symbol. Everytime we come across one, it energises the stored common meaning it has within our memories and initiates a thought train.
On the Nature of Conciousness!

London, Oslo, New York...etc, I queried the constant use of symbols in all the psyops, I'm beginning to understand!

http://www.angelfire.com/nd/danscorpio/index.html

icarusinbound
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by icarusinbound » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:03 pm

Image
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I especially like the missing field-gun. All that effort from a one-legged bearded sasquatch, and yet no weapon at the end of it. And the blue edging around the gun 'in' the fore-ground is...weird

warriorhun
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by warriorhun » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:32 pm

Dear Flabbergasted,

I hope you will not start seeing red upon reading my answer :) , but, of the pictures you attached, picture no. 1, picture no. 2 and picture no. 4 has "red theme" because the Hungarian flag is "RED-white-green" Image, the flag of 1956 was also used (the Rákosi-emblem cut out from the middle) Imageand during the riots using the "Árpád-striped" flag (4xRED-white stripes) was also very popular Image. As per picture no. 5, I can tell you that the columns on "Deák tér" metro station were indeed red.
Last edited by warriorhun on Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

simonshack
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by simonshack » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:52 pm

icarusinbound wrote: And the blue edging around the gun 'in' the fore-ground is...weird
Pardon me, but you should not call it "weird". It's a slam dunk proof of crass photoshopping.

Image

It is part of the "edging" you rightly pointed out (under the gun's tip) in your own photo analysis.

warriorhun
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by warriorhun » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Dear icarusinbound,

Let me add my 2 Forints worth to your questions on the pictures, drawing on my memory of the events. (Of course, I can not guarantee that the journalists did not play about with Photoshop before releasing the imagery, but a few infos may put some of the things straight)

Picture 1.:

The artillery guns, old trucks, and the T-34 tank were from a nearby history-themed street exhibition, from where the good folks commandeered these items. The guns were not intended to be used, hence the explanation for any missing parts.
And before you ask: the tank was indeed used, and no, there were no bullets in it... :D


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IviIdcLP-hE

And yes, lots of people were wearing masks, cowboy-style, against the tear-gas, and also for make it harder to become identified by police from the pictures. Those who did not come prepared, put their T-shirts or pullovers around their heads covering their faces.

And it was an autumn afternoon: I do not remember seeing shadows on the asphalt...


Picture 2.:

That was a road-construction site on the edge of "Deák tér", where some youth were breaking up the curbstones throwing them to the ground, in order to make it easier to throw them at the police later. I remember walking by, and thinking I would better not linger there, because I reasoned the police will beat up mercilessly anyone they catch near this site.

As there was a FIDESZ-party rally at Astoria, many ten thousands strong, the two crowds mixed and the police were shooting tear-gas, rubber bullets, and beating up everybody they could catch indiscriminately, from toddlers to oldsters-hence the explanation of the presence of the "grandpa". They even accused a 70 years old lady weighing 40 kilograms of taking on and assaulting at least 5 riot cops... <_<


Picture 3.:

I am at a loss to understand what I see on this picture. The thing that comes to my mind, is that the water-cannons were shooting colored water to mark the rioters, hence the coloring of the man's trousers.

I hope this helped a bit in understanding some of the circumstances of the photo scenes.

simonshack
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:07 am

warriorhun wrote:
I hope this helped a bit in understanding some of the circumstances of the photo scenes.
Dear Warriorhun (nice to see you back, btw! )

Let me illustrate my understanding of how such street protests/riots are carefully managed and distorted - by the authorities and the media. It is an opinion matured and consolidated out of personal experience, as recently as October 15 - 2011, during the dramatic and highly publicized "Rome riots". I was there that day, marching around the streets of Rome with a huge, playful and peaceful crowd (ok, so perhaps we should all have been angrier and 'revolutionary' - but that just doesn't happen in public gatherings these days...). Anyhow, I later put together a due report of my experiences of that day on Cluesforum.

Now, you don't have to read all of that Rome Riots thread. To make a long story short, I witnessed NO (firsthand) violence that day. What happened was that, as the core mass of walking protesters finally reached (after a long march around the streets of central Rome) the main square, 'piazza San Giovanni', where so-called anti-government speeches were planned to be held , we were ALL blocked by scores of police vans from entering that square. We could see, from a distance, smoke (of burning cars) billowing from the San Giovanni square. Evidently, havoc had been started there. EARLIER, by someone else - NOT by our huge crowd of peaceful and civilized citizens. Our procession now blocked, we all eventually went home - and watched TV (well, I watched it at a friend's place)... On TV that night, we saw images of utter violence and devastation, with black-clad, hooded rioters armed with steel bars, smashing bank windows and putting cars on fire !!!

Well, this is to say that even if you PERSONALLY witnessed the Hungary riots discussed here, the imagery of these street riots can very legitimately be reviewed and debated here on this forum. Let me take that video you posted with the tank moving through the crowd. At 13 seconds into that video (saturated with loud crowd noise) we see the tank mowing down some cardboard sign. The audio of that video goes "KRAAAASHHHH!!!". This loud sound is quite ridiculous, as I hope you will understand - and cannot possibly be an authentic recording captured by a distant camera microphone. Also, I frankly cannot make sense out of that truckload of white material that this little cardboard sign produces as it breaks into small pieces:

Image
"KRRRAAAASSSHHH!!!"

Rest assured that I have no issues with what you wrote - only perhaps with your 'reading' of these Hungarian riots as diffused by the news media. I will stand corrected if you'll assure me that you saw and heard with your own eyes & ears that scene with the tank mowing down that cardboard sign, and witnessed (firsthand) that sign breaking into a large patch of white debris.

warriorhun
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by warriorhun » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:27 am

Dear simonshack,

Not only should you feel free to analyse the imagery, but I am also interested in what you'll find in the end.
As I said in my first comment, there is only 1 video (part of it, because it was cut a few times) and 1 single picture of which I can say is 100% authentic, because I personally do appear on them.

Now, as far as the time-frame is concerned of what I have witnessed, it was like this: I arrived to Deák tér when the good lads were pulling the big letters "SZABADSÁG" (meaning: "freedom") across the street from the exhibition. By then, the metro station was full of tear gas. I witnessed the start of the police attack there on Deák Square, with tear gas and water-cannon. I fucked about a bit there, doing rioting and stuff, but then I left-with the last metro that stopped on Deák tér that day- for a good 2 hours to meet a lady friend of mine who wanted a male escort to the riots, but she got scared of what she saw live on HírTV and chickened out, not as if I blame her. (At the time even I was not aware of the rubber bullets, otherwise I wouldn't have bared my chest in the first ranks, daring the police to "shoot, motherfuckers"! :) )

My time frame means I have missed out the tank action, much to my dismay, (of which I did not believe when I heard about it first from guys at the Astoria who said they saw it), and I missed out the police cavalry charge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcsOv82hv3c when they put the people to the sword, for which I thank God I wasn't there. When I arrived back, the action was already at the Astoria. I witnessed the Astoria happenings, then moved with the crowd on to Ferenciek tere, then I was there at the beginnings of the Erzsébet Bridge barricade, but I went home before the final police charge that was dispersing the crowd at the end.

So, what I can add to the tank imagery is this: I suppose it was shot from the police helicopter which was above us all afternoon. The sound effects very well can be added later. But it was not a cardboard sign smashed, it was one of those things with metal (aluminium?) on the side, neon inside and a glass on the front and back, and there is all sorts of advertisment inside, which sometimes is revolving. Don't know the english name for that object, but all cities have them, its not cardboard.

As for the violence... Well, everybody knew there'll be battle that day, that's why I went there in the first place... ;) In the crowd there was the rioting radical nationalist youths, then the biggest mass was the peacefully celebrating FIDESZ-crowd, plus the catastrophe-tourists who saw the action on HírTV and wanted to join in the fun.

The police was acting like crazy, shooting and beating up everybody they could indiscriminately, even old ladies and young girls, handicapped people, everybody. Peoples' eyes were shot out with rubber bullets, innocents were imprisoned based on accusations of the cops lying shamelessly, the judges handed out sentences at the law courts like on an assembly-line just like in the 1950s, people were tortured in the jails, terrible. This is what the liberal-bolshevik "democracy" really looks like and it ain't pretty... There is rumours that more than one people died that autumn, rioters and police alike, and it was hushed up, never officially confirmed. Small wonder: tension run high those days, confirmed deaths would have meant the start of a civil war for sure, no kidding!

I witnessed only one undercover police activity, a guy with a megaphone at the back of the crowd on Ferenciek tere, leading away part of the crowd to stupid places. I figured later that they wanted the crowd to thin out for the final happenings. He had a lady helper, who, when people asked her: "By the way, who the fuck you are?", she answered, quote: "I am just a totally average, concerned Hungarian citizen!" which roughly translates to "I am a stupid undercover cop with exactly zero playacting talent delivering a stupid line" :lol:

That the ex-communist government ordered the police to brutally beat up Hungarians on the 50th anniversary of 56 is simply outrageous! Not to mention that Prime Minister gyurcsány ferenc (small letters instead of capital letters when writing his name is intended) of that time is married into the family of the notorious Apró Antal, who was a member of the 1956 Communist Military Directorate that's responsible for the Massacre at the Parliament on 25th of October, 1956!

That fateful day have given inspiration to various artists, too.
Let me attach here a painting from Hungarian painter Korényi János, titled Lovasroham (Cavalry attack) 2006. október 23., which is very close to my heart, in memory of the victims of police brutality on the anniversary of the 1956 revolution.

Image

And let me also attach a heartfelt song from "national rock"-band, Kárpátia, titled: "Barátom, mondd, merre vagy?" ("My friend, tell me where you are?), inspired by the 2006 events, with my rough translation of the lyrics with poetic licence. (The video contains 2006 imagery.)


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBI_K4UzcjY

"Tear-gas is biting at my throat,
I'm covering my face with a shawl,
Sword-blade is wounding my back,
My friend, tell me where you are,

My brother is getting shot at on the streets,
On Pest Hungarians' blood is flowing,
Police horses are treading over me,
My friend, tell me where you are,

Oh, oh, oh, oh, The word is flying like a stone thrown,
Oh, oh, oh, oh, You can walk on just one true path,

My daughter is violated,
So is my nation and my religion,
I'm tortured deep down in the prison cell,
My friend, tell me where you are,

In my clothes that are soaked like a rug,
In the cross-hairs of weapons,
One of my eyes is lost, its frozen on the asphalt,
My friend, tell me where you are,

Oh, oh, oh, oh, The word is flying like a stone thrown,
Oh, oh, oh, oh, You can walk on just one true path,

Before God, everybody will be judged based on their sins,
Nothing will remain hidden which have happened under the Sun,
And following the fiery horses will come Death and Life,
And I'm telling you, for sure: everybody must decide on which side do they stand!"


Long live the free Hungary! Give us liberty or give us death!
Last edited by warriorhun on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Flabbergasted
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Re: Current Hungary Riots

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:22 pm

warriorhun wrote:Dear Flabbergasted,

I hope you will not start seeing red upon reading my answer :) , but, of the pictures you attached, picture no. 1, picture no. 2 and picture no. 4 has "red theme" because the Hungarian flag is "RED-white-green" Image, the flag of 1956 was also used (the Rákosi-emblem cut out from the middle) Imageand during the riots using the "Árpád-striped" flag (4xRED-white stripes) was also very popular Image. As per picture no. 5, I can tell you that the columns on "Deák tér" metro station were indeed red.
I realize there is red in the flags. I was referring to the way the red objects stand out in the pictures, with a different "life" to them, compared to the dullness of everything else on that cloudy autumn afternoon. Also, I would never expect an old artillery gun to have red wheel hubs. It´s a small thing perhaps, but (supposing it is not a coincidence) it could have a considerable subliminal impact on the viewer.

Which leads us to think about the many reasons the media may have for manipulating images:

1 - the thing never happened (ex: the WTC plane strike)
2 - the thing happened, but wasn´t photographed by the "right people"
3 - the thing happened, but the photographs are not dramatic enough to make headlines (ex: not enough fire, blood or rioters)
4 - the thing happened, but inconvenient details need to be erased (license plates, faces, logos)
5 - the thing happened, but convenient details need to be inserted (celebrities, swastikas, etc.)
6 - the thing happened, but the pictures are mixed with archived images which have to be "adjusted"(flags, messages on signs, shop windows, etc.)
7 - the thing happened, but the media decide to use the incident as part of a larger psy-op and therefore doctor some of the pictures, perhaps assigning a "theme" to them.
8 - the thing happened, but copycat media people add "standard elements" to the pictures which have come to be seen as natural and expected, such as missing posters, making it more difficult to distinguish between minor manipulation and big-time psy-ops.
9 - ...

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