THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
arc300
Member
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by arc300 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:00 pm

Heiwa wrote:I evidently believe that US president Barack Obama is 3rd generation CIA, whose maternal grandparents and mother (and father?) were CIA based on their available CVs, e.g. Beirut in the 1950's and Afghanistan in the 1980's.
So therefore I do not believe in Obama. One reason is that he thinks he is BLACK. In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
I evidently believe that no structure can collapse from top down by gravity because I believe in my scientific, peer reviewed paper to this effect.
It is always nice to believe and believe in.
At the risk of getting too anal,
your use of the word 'belief' especially in regards to collapsing structures is a linguistic convenience. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Our physical reality is not a matter of belief. A collapsing tower is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of demonstating the truth value of claim. It is a matter of predicting outcomes based on current knowledge.

Compare with this article about apartment towers built by belief: http://www.montypython.net/scripts/mystico.php

brianv
Member
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:34 pm

Heiwa wrote:I evidently believe that US president Barack Obama is 3rd generation CIA, whose maternal grandparents and mother (and father?) were CIA based on their available CVs, e.g. Beirut in the 1950's and Afghanistan in the 1980's.
So therefore I do not believe in Obama. One reason is that he thinks he is BLACK. In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
I evidently believe that no structure can collapse from top down by gravity because I believe in my scientific, peer reviewed paper to this effect.
It is always nice to believe and believe in.

Let me re-cast that :

Apparently a man who lives on a large landmass on this planet has a job, whose grandparents also had jobs, and the man apparently has skin of some colour. He has a bit of paper, which is read by other men with jobs on another landmass. Man's intuition and experience tells us that: If built correctly a tall building made of steel will not fall from the top down when struck by a much lighter object. Man has become quite adept at building. I wrote some stuff on a piece of paper.

On another level -

US President Barka Mamboa. Fail.
A man whose NAME is Baracula Omamba has a job in a fictitious state KNOWN AS, or like the media here like to put it STYLED, "the usa", which entitles him to be KNOWN as president for a short period.

He is Black. (A = B or High Level Abstraction)
His skin appears a blackish colour, more precisely, his skin appears a light brownish colour.

GrandParents [are] White. As above
His grandparent's skin appears to be a whitish colour.

In FRANCE Fail.
In a fictitious state KNOWN as "france".

Evil Edna
Banned
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:32 am

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Evil Edna » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:40 pm

bostonterrierowner wrote:One more thing :

I am surprised nobody on CF noticed "one of the greatest natural disasters in human history" .
...
A posh coffin sits abandoned and all alone on a professional undertaker's stand?? :blink: A boy casually trundles by with his grocery cart of provisions :blink:

Would a posh coffin be to hand in a disaster of this alleged scale? Sitting on a stand?! Why would it be left unattended like that, with no one around except the cameraman :rolleyes: Doesn't it look more like a composite image? A photo-faked disaster to raise mega cash for Western NGOs? If Typhoon Haitan was largely a non-event, how can they spend our generous donations on disaster relief? Will the cash instead go on Westernising the Philippines, and rewarding the NGO chiefs for pulling off such a big stunt?

That broken down wall on the left, and the timber behind it, looks very photoshoppy too.

The creators of these tangled piles of disaster debris have discovered a useful psychological flaw in the human mind. I can't be alone in finding it very difficult to scrutinise these debris images for credibility. Their complexity makes them hard to "read", very hard to find the flaws. Also, thankfully few of us have experience of real-life natural disasters to compare them against.

Image

From the Daily Mail, where the tragic Photoshop disaster is being pinned on Climate Change :blink:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... egion.html

hoi.polloi
Member
Posts: 5061
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:42 am

Of course, I'd spent countless hours throughout that decade seeking to ultimately debunk what I'd considered to be the manufactured historicity of Christ.
I think another thing is that many people like brianv find themselves betraying their independence out of loneliness. That is to say, many formerly very independent thinkers become self-proclaimed atheists/agnostics because so many people (as we've discovered time and time again through research into human nature as it relates to belief and other things) are looking for something to join to feel stable and they lose interest in their own beautiful uniqueness.

Brianv will never do that, which is why I love the guy even though I've never met him.

I can never really call myself any label without it being a tongue-in-cheek diplomatic thing, but I am willing to come to a place that says, "all people are welcome" which is what the Sunday Assembly says in a tiny corner of its vitriolic web site. I guess I'll see if they actually are that way or if it's going to be a bunch of Michio Kaku- Richard Dawkins- Hawking-worshipping, Darwinian bastards. My sense so far is that it is not. That it's actually just some people getting together out of an unstated relief from being told to believe something, and that their whole marketing package of being an anti-megachurch is for the press.

So, risking a Dcopymope attack and changing the subject a bit (or rather immensely, because I figure a lot of "atheism" is a rejection of all Religions, not just "Abrahamic" ones) to Jesus Christ (and/or Zeitgeist-like dismissive waves at the evidence), as you have tangentially alluded ... I have met a fellow who is big into historical research and went to the central library in London and pulled up some old census records where Jesus of Nazareth was apparently written down and that was good enough for him.

For me, as you know, that's not good enough.

We have discovered on this site that a fake signature is enough for some people to believe an entire fabrication about a vicsim.

So for me, as far as biblical scholarship goes (and please don't judge me as I am really just a beginner at this sort of thing) I am fascinated by the folks that say Titus Flavius' military campaign was intimately tied to Jesus' life story in a few key areas, which indicates that a wealthy family (Flavians by name) essentially invented/promoted this guy (presuming he was even a historical character) in order to give these fucking crazy militant-ass Jews a fake Messiah that is pacifist instead of warmongering, and thereby try to calm them down and keep them from destroying Rome in a weekend. That is, making the New Testament was sort of like taking the "sacred" media for a bunch of religious zealots, like let's say, The Origin of Species, and writing a sequel that both proves the ridiculous prophecy of the text and ties it to your own goals, like — I dunno — let's say, a new book called The Missing Link by Dick Slawkings, PhD proving conclusively that apes are humans, life-originating bacteria came from Mars, and the Reptilians are coming back to cure our ills by giving us great sex.

So instead of people interested in science, independent thought, critical thinking, building and strengthening community and families or what-have-you, or possibly running a rail through your leader's head, you derail their zealotry into a belief (that brianv so staunchly warns about) that their belief is powerful. You seduce them (and force them) to rely on their own zealotry (belief in a Messiah or whatever it is). You play dead for a while, you pretend to be hypnotized and controlled until your zealots really believe in their own command over life and its laws.

Isn't Jesus just that kind of symbol? A vessel for all one's belief in the good things in life continuing in perpetuity, in order to ease the mind's anxiety about the future?

bostonterrierowner
Member
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by bostonterrierowner » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:28 am

Heiwa wrote:I evidently believe that US president Barack Obama is 3rd generation CIA, whose maternal grandparents and mother (and father?) were CIA based on their available CVs, e.g. Beirut in the 1950's and Afghanistan in the 1980's.
So therefore I do not believe in Obama. One reason is that he thinks he is BLACK. In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
I evidently believe that no structure can collapse from top down by gravity because I believe in my scientific, peer reviewed paper to this effect.
It is always nice to believe and believe in.
What if he is 4th generation CIA :) What if everything you read about him is bullshit and there is no way on earth to find out anything about his ancestors ?
In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
What about Sweden ? Does your theory work there as well ? :)

Are you lowering debating standards on this forum on purpose ???

Heiwa
Banned
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Heiwa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:05 pm

bostonterrierowner wrote: 1. What about Sweden ? Does your theory work there as well ? :)

2. Are you lowering debating standards on this forum on purpose ???
1. No idea! I live in France since 1980.
2. No. Why should I?

bostonterrierowner
Member
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by bostonterrierowner » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:08 pm

I evidently believe that US president Barack Obama is 3rd generation CIA, whose maternal grandparents and mother (and father?) were CIA based on their available CVs, e.g. Beirut in the 1950's and Afghanistan in the 1980's.
So therefore I do not believe in Obama. One reason is that he thinks he is BLACK. In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
I evidently believe that no structure can collapse from top down by gravity because I believe in my scientific, peer reviewed paper to this effect.
It is always nice to believe and believe in.
I reckon there is an equal sign between these 2 beliefs of yours . Your evident trust in some actor's fictional ancestors' CVs equals your another evident trust in the undisputed fact that Twin Towers couldn't have been destroyed by the planes . WTF ? :)

Heiwa
Banned
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Heiwa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:00 pm

bostonterrierowner wrote:
I evidently believe that US president Barack Obama is 3rd generation CIA, whose maternal grandparents and mother (and father?) were CIA based on their available CVs, e.g. Beirut in the 1950's and Afghanistan in the 1980's.
So therefore I do not believe in Obama. One reason is that he thinks he is BLACK. In France anyone with a white mother/grandparents is WHITE.
I evidently believe that no structure can collapse from top down by gravity because I believe in my scientific, peer reviewed paper to this effect.
It is always nice to believe and believe in.
I reckon there is an equal sign between these 2 beliefs of yours . Your evident trust in some actor's fictional ancestors' CVs equals your another evident trust in the undisputed fact that Twin Towers couldn't have been destroyed by the planes . WTF ? :)
Actually I just twice tried to describe the difference between to believe and not and to believe in and not.

Believe is a feeling that something is true or whatever you like. Or hope. No evidence is required. E.g. that Jesus is the son of God and Mary. Many persons believe that. E.g. in Poland. Many people, e.g. in Japan do not believe that. They have never heard of Jesus, etc.

Believe in is therefore to trust something or to feel sure of something, e.g. that God exists. And is the father of Jesus one way or another. Why not? People are allowed to believe anything. Or nothing - like brianv.

Evidently only fools believe that small weak airplanes making holes in the weak top of a skyscraper built of steel will initiate a global collapse, where the weak little top destroys by crushing down the intact, much bigger and stronger bottom below by gravity. These fools also believe in corrupt politicians and media. Reason why the believe and believe in such a way is that they are badly informed.

Personally I just feel sorry for those fools. But I try to educate them. Free of charge. It makes me happy. That is what count. :)
Last edited by Heiwa on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

brianv
Member
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:09 pm

"Believe" is a feeling that something is true

Incorrect. Believe? is having faith that something is true. Like belief that there's a man in the sky is having faith.

[...]"Or nothing - like brianv."

Incorrect. I don't believe nothing! Your double negative implies that I do believe in something. I have already stated my position on that. I don't believe period. Belief is an ACT. Faith is an ACT. I do not ACT. Geddit?

You trot out that same garbage about the towers collapsing in every post, don't you have anything else to say?

simonshack
Administrator
Posts: 6939
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: italy
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:43 pm

C'mon guys - let's be good with each other. We're all different people - Heiwa's just a tad more different than most, that's all ! :P
Heiwa believes in French satellites and disbelieves in American ones. Vive la différence!

Heiwa
Banned
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Heiwa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:47 pm

Faith is according my Idiomatic and Syntactic English Dictionary, Tokyo 1942, trust, strong belief, unquestioning confidence, system of religious belief, promise, engagement, loyalty, sincerity, etc, and has nothing to do with truth. :P
Re satellites I just believe in Earth orbiting ones that cannot ever re-enter back to ground. I believe it is possible to eject such satellites at high speeds/altitudes in orbits around Earth using a good rocket, e.g. a French one and that it is impossible to get them back on ground again due to lack of brakes, etc.
France is quite good at sending up satellites. If it is true or not is another matter. No French satellite has ever come back and landed on Earth,though, because French satellites have no brakes. I am sure about it. :D
Last edited by Heiwa on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

brianv
Member
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:37 pm

@Heiwa

What things are you required to believe, or have faith in, whose premise is false?

Heiwa
Banned
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:20 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Heiwa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:42 pm

brianv wrote:@Heiwa

What things are you required to believe, or have faith in, whose premise is false?
There is obviously no need to believe or believe in a statement of fact or premise that is true. You do not believe in things that you know are real. You believe in church and similar.

On the other hand some people believe or believe in, or may be required to believe or believe in, an alleged statement of fact or premise that is false - it can be anything - but it is just a feeling based on wrong input, e.g., from media, Hollywood or Obama or your local faith healer. :rolleyes:

brianv
Member
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:51 pm

Heiwa wrote:
brianv wrote:@Heiwa

What things are you required to believe, or have faith in, whose premise is false?
There is obviously no need to believe or believe in a statement of fact or premise that is true. You do not believe in things that you know are real. You believe in church and similar.

On the other hand some people believe or believe in, or may be required to believe or believe in, an alleged statement of fact or premise that is false - it can be anything - but it is just a feeling based on wrong input, e.g., from media, Hollywood or Obama or your local faith healer. :rolleyes:
There is obviously no need to believe or believe in a statement of fact or premise that is true

Therefore you believe in the things which are false. :lol:

dblitz
Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:32 am

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by dblitz » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:58 pm

Belief is considering something the most likely explanation - there were no planes on 9/11? I could believe that, lets see what he says.

Faith is when you act on that belief - lets look at his analysis. Hey, no need for planes at all, the entire thing was faked in video and by actors, and there is no evidence for victims. This belief makes the most sense.

Your faith increases as you eliminate alternative possible beliefs by testing them again your experience - Inserting planes into the scenario contradicts other things I know are true, and planes are not required for the deception, therefore I have faith that no new facts will emerge that contradict my belief that there were no planes. It seems people claiming there were planes either haven't tested this belief, or have some other belief they want me to accept that only makes sense if there were planes.

Knowledge is when you are satisfied that no other belief could ever take the place of the one you have tested - since planes don't do those things, and all evidence for them was faked, every other belief must now be consistent with that assumption, and any one who doesn't assume that it was entirely faked is going to assume other things that can't be true, so now I can judge all these assumptions based on planes, and those who promote them, as suspect.

Beliefs are operational assumptions. Faith is when you act as though they will meet every challenge and survive, knowledge is the core set of operational assumptions. Some of these things are tested by reason, some are tested by experience, and our faith in those assumptions is what informs our behavior, leading to further reinforcement through experience.

I assume a God exists who is personal, so I talk to Him. In my experience, he has responded in ways that cannot be explained otherwise. Now I know He exists, because the alternative cannot explain my experience. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. You can't make someone else 'see' your experience until they share it.

Post Reply