THE "CHATBOX"

[simonshack]

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Whether you celebrate it or not, I'd just like to wish a merry xmas to everyone.

[maggie]

Merry Christmas to you too, Simon, and to all forum members!

[Haze]

Joyeux Noël à tous !

[waterwitch]

"Nadolig llawen a Blwyddyn newydd dda" to everyone on the forum ( looks like a bunch of random letters but actually means "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year" in Welsh - my mother's language)

[brianv]

"Nadolig llawen a Blwyddyn newydd dda" to everyone on the forum ( looks like a bunch of random letters but actually means "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year" in Welsh - my mother's language)

^ The Irish who couldn't swim!

Happy Xmas!

[waterwitch]

^ Gotta love the Irish

"An Irish priest is driving down to New York and gets stopped for speeding in Connecticut .   The state trooper smells alcohol on the priest's breath and then sees an empty wine bottle on the floor of the car.

He says, 'Father, have you been drinking?'

'Just water,' says the priest.

The trooper says, 'Then why do I smell wine?'

The priest looks at the bottle and says, 'Good Lord! He's done it again!'"

Btw The mention of two popular psyop locations in the above witticism is purely coincidental

[Flabbergasted]

This news report gives me the creeps! Watch and !

http://www.khou.com/news/local/UPS-empl ... 73811.html

It's about a UPS delivery guy stealing a package left on the door step by a FedEx delivery guy. Leaving packages unattended like that is unthinkable where I live, but anyway...

We are told that the UPS guy "is probably wearing an orange suit by now" for having committed this heinous crime. The well-to-do homeowner is interviewed to let the world know how important video surveillance is. His suggestion (says the sly reporter) is to get cameras installed ... even if it makes you appear a little geeky, it pays off!

I am not sure whether this is an advertising piece for FedEx, for Ipad or for Homeland Security!

[Flabbergasted]

A curiosity: some graphic artist working on Disney's DuckTales series played a little prank putting a message into the eye chart in the creepy doctor's office. It reads "Ask about illuminati".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0NAheMXhAk



A few seconds later, the message is changed so it becomes unreadable.

[lux]

Some sexual subliminals too (which Disney is famous for):

[Equinox]

[nonhocapito]

A curiosity: some graphic artist working on Disney's DuckTales series played a little prank putting a message into the eye chart in the creepy doctor's office. It reads "Ask about illuminati".

[EDIT: the discovery of this "illuminati" reference in a 1989 Walt Disney cartoon is actually interesting, so the following is not meant to disparage this contribution but only to reflect on its implications.]

I have a question.

What if the "Illuminati" did not exist?

What if this was all a fairy tale for the masses, to make us look in the wrong direction, to make the people with doubts and questions about the real entities behind the screen to be all riled up over something that isn't even there?

What if all the masonic references that pop up in media, movies, songs (see "vigilant citizen"), were nothing but a trend of propaganda, simply reiterating a system of control of the dissent experimented in all regimes in human history, invent the enemy?

I know I am repeating myself but I think it is suspicious the way this Illuminati story is being fed to the masses, it is suspicious the way it pops up in the same cointel circles where we see shills and disinfo agents hang out, it is suspicious the way it seems to have absolutely no substance underneath the surface, and the way in which it is nonetheless repeated over and over, as if to convince anyone of its relevance: "Illuminati".

Before any of us "help out" in the spreading of this potential meme of propaganda, we should first ask ourselves if we are not helping the wrong cause by taking this thing seriously or at face value.

And I'm not even saying the "illuminati" or any equivalent does not exist. How would I know? There is no evidence one way or the other!
I am pretty sure there are masonic circles up there, and that they do count. And I firmly believe in exposing them if traces are found that indicate their presence. But I also think that masonic circles are nothing but elite networks that cannot so easily be identified directly with the power that we think emanates from above.

The power lays with us. So we must be careful.

We should be aware that the more we talk about the "illuminati", the more we seem to "challenge" their power or statute, the more we end up legitimizing and supporting this possibly fictitious, ethereal authority, helping to concoct this weight on the shoulders of our fellow human beings.

Besides, if Walt Disney asks me to do something, that's precisely something I don't want to do.

[Flabbergasted]

What if the "Illuminati" did not exist?

nonhocapito,

Actually, I think you are doing what the prankster suggested in the cartoon: you are asking about the Illuminati. However, instead of asking the usual questions (who? what? how? why?), which lead to endless speculations, you are asking an interesting yes/no question: "is there such a thing as the Illuminati at all?"

I agree it is a vague and even implausible entity which eludes all efforts at identification, in stark contrast with how often it is spoken of. Like you, I am tired of hearing about how omnipresent, omnipotent, shrewd and satanic this secret society is supposed to be.

On the other hand, we are left with an enigma: Can media fakery such as the moon landings/space exploration be upheld worldwide for half a century or longer without some sort of informal, but global superstructure consistently protecting it?

What is long-lived enough, close-knit enough and transnational enough for such a task?

Could the global myth-making machine have been sustained for over a century by the five or ten most influential news agencies in the world?

I honestly don't know. The more I pry into this power structure issue, the less I understand!

[Farcevalue]

I have no trouble imagining these power structures to be far less formal than the conspiracy mythology suggests. Two lions chasing down a gazelle don't plot who breaks right or left, they corner their prey instinctively. I am sure those who benefit from the gravy train understand what it takes to keep the serfs in the game and act accordingly, without a monthly sales meeting and a motivational pep talk. Sprinkle in some occult symbols on top of the psyops and the conspiracy hounds chase their tales into infinity.

Of course, there could be catalogs with custom made druidic robes, graven images and utensils of human sacrifice that are secretly distributed to an elite clientele who scheme and plot with their big book of incantations, but somehow the idea of this sort of thing rings a bit hollow.

[lux]

The Tooth Fairy does not really exist yet it is still true that many kids' do experience a disappearance of their teeth from beneath their pillows and money appearing in their place.

[nonhocapito]

Wow great observations... you gotta love this forum.

Flabbergasted: you got me... I "asked about the illuminati".
Feels kind of stupid the way these topics are fed to us and how it is almost impossible to ignore them. This is really how things are made to exist in the public consciousness, simply by treating them as real over and over until even those who disagree cannot help but thinking about them. I should try harder to clarify my position or thought about this issue before I discuss it, otherwise I am preaching but not practicing, so to speak.
Anyway I guess a better formulation of my thought was that they make us think or believe that the information about the "illuminati" is either fruit of independent research or else it is the illuminati's own doing in the effort to become visible in the mass culture.
My suggestion was that there is also a third way to see things, that these ideas are artificially planted but behind them there is nothing meaningful.

Farcevalue: beautifully said.This is exactly my thought. There is no need to imagine all the forces in the world organized under one hat, although the idea simplifies things and makes the "fight" more palatable. The pigs in charge will instinctively always behave the same way, in order to maintain and expand their power, while ultimately working for themselves or in limited, shifting groups.
It is also very interesting to speculate how these masonic circles really work. I often have this feeling, that the elite people inside those circles, while convinced to finally be in the control room, are being duped and used just like everyone else, only on a different level. I even imagine that they are "shown" mysterious secrets and even special effects that are also part of the dupe. Wizard of Oz and all that.
By reading the extensive material about the italian freemasonry and the inner workings of groups like the P2, it becomes transparent how all these organizations base the loyalty of their members largely on blackmail. Which says it all on how fictitious and fragile is their "power".

lux: I guess the point is to find an effective way to teach the kid. Yet facing these issues personally I feel like a kid myself, which makes it all the more harder. The problem with the fake "conspiracy" clues planted all over the internet is that they keep busy or baffle precisely the people who could shake things up...