Establishing a Life of Meaning

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest

Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby Alicekinnian on Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:37 am

Somehow I stumbled across this site in a quest to determine whether another website was a psyop. One of the replies to that thread featured tangentially a discussion of St. Anthony. I had never heard of him, so I looked him up, and was rather moved to tears; apparently he spent his short 35 years of life on Earth ministering to the poor and sick, acted with great bravery for his talents, yet was also modest. Supposedly he had the gift of oratory, and his tongue survived decomposition? No, I am not actually here to discuss a dead saint's tongue.

But all of this has only heightened my existential angst, if that is what it can be called. I would seek therapy, but, just imagine if I were to walk into a therapist office, and mention the context of my concerns, and all of my disbelief of conventionally accepted wisdom; would this end well or result in the attainment of higher truth? I doubt it, so, while I know this is not a place to share personal frustrations, I am hoping maybe there is enough compassion here to allow this tangent.

My entire life, I've been raised to "survive" - and the acceptable method to my family has been by "excelling" in math and science. None of us have been talented or innovative enough to invent anything truly useful, so, the vast majority of us became engineers - but not the type that are glorified for superior knowledge - more the type that do meaningless, obscure specialty work, and whose notable accomplishments are the improvement of some percentage points of supposed efficiency in, best case scenario, a field that does not contribute to further destroying the world. That's best case scenario, and there of course have been "worst" case scenarios where this drudgery has been performed for organizations that cannot be said to be doing anything respectable for the world. Is that arrogant of me to say? To dismiss entire sectors as un-respectable? I guess by this I mean - organizations which further the war machine, or aid in the direct or indirect destruction of people's lives. At either rate, my husband is the only one of us working at the moment, and he is in a particular branch of healthcare that, I hope, and from what I can surmise, is not actively destructive and makes devices that appear rather wholesome and not deleterious to humanity. So I think that has been an improvement for us.

But for me, I have, as of a few years now, quit my job to homeschool our children. This was not really a preconceived plan; I was simply overwhelmed with emotion for them, and did not want to be separated. In the "time off from work" my mind was free to roam about what started as simple conjectures and conspiracy theories held for mostly entertainment, that have since kind of morphed into a surprising reality given the discovery that they may actually hold weight. In the process of entertaining such theories, I've expanded my mind a little bit..perhaps to the degree that I can no longer sustain belief in much. I seem to lack the means by which to obtain objective proof on the most basic of things, and am left frustrated both by my incompetence to prove things one way or another, by my limited powers of observation, and by our limited financial means - perhaps with greater finances I could definitely settle some of my "doubts"? I am not sure.

But daily now I have a greater problem. What do I effectively teach my children? I've been focusing simply on abstractions such as math, and standard fare things like reading, and hopefully good nutrition and physical health. But after that, I find myself feeling like I am lying to them to take them through the most simple of indoctrinations. I remember how my own parents would pressure me to learn and repeat facts, and to "excel" above and beyond others, and how they loved conditionally based upon performance and prestige, and I would like to do something else with my children, and also teach them "truth" and then I am in defeat at the conclusion that I objectively know almost nothing, and therefore begin all my sentences with "some people think" or "it's commonly accepted" or "here are two theories" - with their father fuming all the time about "not putting that flat earth [pejorative] in their head". He's been very tolerant on the whole, especially for a person who formerly worked at NASA. But at any rate, I make a pretty terrible teacher, and am overall recently a rather conflicted person. I worry, if I teach them from a mindset of doubt - how will they ever fit into the resultant society? My parents, who could be termed on some level "drones of the system" - well, we had a falling out after they insisted that, irrespective the "rating" of the public school available to us - anything was better than my efforts to homeschool them, and that I should send them "at any cost" "effective immediately". So I have no support. The other homeschooling Moms pretty much seem to teach a dogmatic mantra to their children, with very little questioning as well. And I have to say perhaps it yields better psychological results for their children? I don't know. I don't want to lie to my children but, I often feel like the blind leading the blind - I only conjecture what I know, and I know almost nothing.

Nihilism is a perpetual thing I am trying to fight. I ask myself, how did we really get here? I find it disturbing I cannot even remember the moment when I became conscious. I cannot, in fact, recollect much except the most basic summary of the dreams I have at night. I sense that my senses (like eyesight), are subjective and deteriorating. I feel pretty strongly though that I do have a soul, and a character, however poorly executed or under-utilized. I feel personally hurt to see Christianity disparaged as just another mind control mechanism. The thought of all my notions of a Creator being tossed under the bus in some maniacal scheme is too much for me to hold psychologically, and I keep searching for "the way, the truth, and the life". But seemingly searching, and not finding. Sometimes, I think the appeal of the flat or concave Earth theories, more than anything, for me, is their appeal that one could simply invest all one's earnings to go to the supposed "South" perimeter or pole, or even the "North" pole, and discover some exit there.

It's not that there's anything wrong with my life - except the inherent nature of absolutely everyone I love slowly dying - or at least appearing to. Irrespective human machinations - I see the very convincing theories on faked political events, and aims at controlling society through such theater - but irrespective this - even if every single human were to be like this Saint Anthony, perfectly concerned about others and with a full heart and conscious - that does not seem as though it would stop for a minute the inevitable decay that marches on, inexorably. We are doomed to lose everything we love, and I keep hoping among these conspiracy theories I will find the "motherload" the one that will actually reveal the meaning of life and inspire true happiness, and explain everything. The whole "I will wipe every tear from your eye" thing, but before death.

On one of the psyop webpages, it described a possibly fictitious account of the author's frustrations with being artificially barred in every field he attempted from executing on his plan of implementing truth and beauty. He claimed in every field he attempted, he was held back, so to speak, and left no other option but to be this mouthpiece on the internet, and to be "opposition". In a way it feels like I can relate as, I think - if I were to abandon my kids and return to the pursuit of increasing our family income - with the end goal of sending the kids to the indoctrination machine of college - which apparently is a prerequisite for our standard of wealth, for them to part-take in it too - well, if I did this, as might be better than their having a not-very-respectable-or-knowledgeable-mother-teacher instead - what would I theoretically pursue that could be ethical or even tangentially fulfilling? Is there any industry in which one can, without being a genius, effect a significant change if one goes in without much equity or innovation? I used to imagine perhaps if I switched to teaching things would go better because of the sacrificial nature of it, but besides not being an extremely patient teacher, I realized I would be teaching things I largely don't believe. I suppose there is the field of mathematics, which is largely just a human abstraction. What do you think, what is a field I could go into? If I stay home with my children and continue the attempt to teach - what could I teach them of meaning?

I feel very sad lately. I return to the few thing I know, and I guess one of the things I know is that I admire that St Anthony Wikipedia description (hopefully he was a real person, I don't know). And I admire Christ. It wouldn't be baffling to me that most people dismiss His story out of hand as a con, so I don't quite know what to do to defend what is probably logically indefensible. But I think when it comes to "all I really know" - I feel like "all I really know" is that I love my family, and that I love these types of characters. I would hope I therefore love God. I feel a distance between myself and what would be optimal for me. At every juncture I think "I could be more jovial here, more patient, more self-sacrificing"; I think maybe ideally I would spend less time in the pursuit of my personal truth, and more comfortable with the idea of not knowing anything with certainty, but operating in love nonetheless. But it's difficult to not know anything and fully operate. One is always wondering - without objective reinforcement - is this actually the path to moral improvement or am I wasting time or otherwise failing? I pray but it seems one way, and I am deeply envious of those who claim to have more personal revelations. And I guess I was curious if there were any of those on here. I find some in other places but, the enlightenment doesn't seem to permeate a plethora of issues..it's like they were just enlightened enough to get one clear, non-transferable communication and that's it. Whereas I haven't gotten any. I am also furthermore terrified to meditate for fears that it could be "Satanic" and because of my strong resolution never to do anything that could qualify as sorcery, because of the verse admonishing against it. I can see even as I write this how that may seem on it's head as why do I believe in the canonized version of the Bible, but perhaps it's because I have nothing in the way of direct personal experience, and there are only a few things left that I can hold onto, and I can't lose those things.

Anyway, those are my issues to establishing a life of meaning. My plan is to once again suppress my desire for deeper knowledge and try to go about my daily tasks in a better fashion than the day before, perhaps with more prayer, thinking/hoping that when I die it will all be made clear. Is this the rational optimal solution or have you found a better one?
Alicekinnian
Banned
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby antipodean on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:02 am

It looks like you need to win the lottery.
antipodean
Member
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:53 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby patrix on Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:51 am

Dear Alicekinnian,

Thank you for such a heartfelt post. These are strange times and as a parent I’m having the same feelings and problems as you have. What do I teach my kids and what will their future be like? I try to give them perspective and talk about my findings in a way I think they can understand and encourage them to be skeptical (in a real sense) and that they should trust their own rational thinking above all else. And that they are very loved by their parents and relatives.

Personally I respect religion and think anyone who are religious should practice their faith proudly. And let’s not forget that Atheism is a religion too. What I do have a problem with is when doctrines are imposed on people of other faith. Atheism is perhaps the most glaring example today. Existence of a God can neither be proved or disproved, so to claim as an objective truth that God does not exist is both irrational and dogmatic.

I have looked at the research here at Cluesforum for some time now and even have had the privilege to contribute to Simons TYCHOS by developing the Tychosium. I like to see myself as a rational thinker, but I have had to realize that much of my beliefs was not at all based on rational thought. I can now for example see that Simons TYCHOS indeed is the most rational explanation of our solar system. So why is that? My hypothesis is that the Copernican model was used to seed divide within the Church and to begin a conquering of science 500 years ago. So if you’re looking for a “motherload” conspiracy I would say that’s it. But don’t take my word for it. Study TYCHOS and make up your own mind.

All the best Alicekinnian and may reason prevail. /Patrik
patrix
Member
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby Alicekinnian on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:50 pm

Thanks Patrix for your reply. My husband is agnostic and a relatively firm believer in established science so, I'm respectful of the beliefs of others. Honestly, I wish that I had the certainty to be disrespectful - the conviction to such a degree that I was right that I would then want to go out and convince all others. Certainly, if I had that conviction, I would without a doubt be intolerant of other perspectives. But alas, my beliefs are based upon hope coupled with extrapolation from my own internal feelings, not objective fact - if there could be such a thing as objective facts in terms of spiritual occurrences, if there are such things, as I hope there are (believe there are?)

I looked into the Tychos model. So far I haven't gotten much into it - I just now looked at it. It looked like it has two overlapping orbits, with some of the planets circling the sun and the others circling Jupiter if I am not mistaken in identifying the planet at the center there? I know this is mental lassitude on my part, but, I hope you won't be offended...this is not quite the "motherload" I was hoping for. I don't know if that makes me a totally ignorant and unconcerned person, but, at the risk of being called unscientific and a person devoid of the desire to use their own powers of observation - I've lost a big interest, whatever I may have original had, in the shape of the world and associated planets. I guess I would be more interested if there were a way to escape the Earth and associated death to another location, or somehow obtain a knowledge of God by getting off of this thing - whatever its shape may be, but, I don't really see that in any of the available models, and certainly if it involved building a spaceship well, we can hardly pay our mortgage off - certainly we will never obtain the funds to have a private jet. I wish I had more interest in this because maybe it would be a good activity with the kids to track the motion of the planets and verify the nuances of one model or another....certainly it would improve all of our working knowledge of the telescope and reinforce for us some good skills in patience and data collection, and help expand the kids' knowledge of math. I suppose people have been doing this for centuries, so why not us? And as with all planetary theories, I am impressed at the level of dedication and data collection that people put into these things.

Maybe I am clinically depressed or something because I cannot seem to gather the motivation to be even curious. We don't drink flouridated water (have an extensive filtration system) and we eat organic food so, I'm not sure why I totally lack in any scientific curiosity...I just haven't since youth (my youth consisted of forced participation in Math and Science Olympiads and AP classes where I had to memorize and follow pre-set rules to the detriment of not only my social life but physical and emotional health as well, followed by an equally isolating collegiate experience). Part of me feels like I'm slowly dying and running out of time to find the spiritual significance of why we're here so, studying these planets is a little like watching paint dry while one's body and mind slips away. I'm sorry that was such a derogatory statement - this is not true for all people, for some it's very engaging. Patierhaps I need to be more patient and something of value will result if I do take the steps to follow through in scientific proofs again, and re-learn how to examine data with fresh eyes and even take my own data. Perhaps I have just been lazy, resulting in this spiritual state?

I don't know. I found the 9/11 psyop more interesting as it substantially freed me from my concern about the news. It enabled me to hold the real thought that perhaps events in Syria are staged or exaggerated and that I don't need to feel utter depression about people getting blown off the face of the planet. And that much of my media-induced depression was irrational with the upbeat conclusion that not many people died if any. This has improved my mental state a bit and encouraged me to greater happiness actually (while I see for some reason it depresses other people that the government lies to them - but, we moved here from a Communist system, so I have no expectations of truth from governing bodies).

But I can't see any practical uplifting-ness from establishing the shape of the Earth or tracking the planets. I feel like maybe it could be empowering to reaffirm the mental prowess of following through novel scientific theories. Maybe that would be a bit of a confidence boost.

But I'm still dying. I still don't know how I got here. I still don't know where God the Father is. I still don't understand the meaning of suffering. I still have no better prospects to offer my children than a technocratic slave state, with possibly deteriorating family values - but even if it were a perfect technocracy with peace and a great lifestyle - well even then we are still dying and what is the point...I need to find the point. The other person was correct in that the chances seem slim in terms of it probably being easier to win the lottery but - doesn't it seem imperative? We have conscious, feeling souls - and everything we do here is transitory, and simply does not last in any meaningful form. We have children and they last for a span. There's localized meaning in that. But I keep hoping that perhaps there is a group of people who have obtained Ultimate Truth. Part of me is hoping that they are behind these intelligence organizations, although seeing the expose on 9/11 was very disheartening to this theory - I can't believe how poorly covered it was - unless it was intentionally poorly covered? It would be depressing if the only motive of people were the desire for power and money - I keep hoping there may be some kind of secret organization that is higher minded than that? With perhaps some kind of secret knowledge.

I don't know, maybe I am hoping for something irrational that I do not merit again.

I had these kids so, I probably shouldn't dwell on these thoughts at all. I owe it to them to give them a sense of certainty, a clam, composed, organized life, and to hone their data-evaluating skills, so the astronomy exercise is probably conducive to this. I need to get myself "out of myself" where I can establish no answers anyway. Ultimately I will die, and as I don't have the inclination to terminate fully understanding how that would hurt others, I have no ability to establish early knowledge of the unknowable. Assuming something could even be gained in death, which is another uncertainty.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. That is probably a statement that could entirely describe the whole of my life though. Not only is the manner in which I proceed poorly executed, I have no "end goal", and every night I go to sleep after anxiously staying up trying to "research" answers realizing I have made basically no progress.

But wait I do have some small progress to share. I feel like moral conclusions are not arbitrary. For example if I do something that hurts or is in anger, versus if I do something that is loving and kind to others - I definitely feel a physical difference as a result of these two actions. So my own powers of observation lead me to the conclusion that there is a "right" and a "wrong". Everyone will tell me that this is just the result of my indoctrination being raised as Christian, but, actually, I was not really raised in a religious home, and was kind of taught the opposite - was kind of raised in a might-makes-right environment, and a highly unbelieving one. But from what I see even in the children, this tendency to love and share with others is innate. There is nothing more loving than a 1 year old baby. The amount of love there just blows me away. Also the amount of joy. There's selfishness too but, a huge generosity that slowly wanes as the child reaches 3 years old - but it's there at the start, in all the helplessness of that form. I have to wonder at the Creator who brought me these priceless gifts, seemingly out of thin air.

It just still doesn't seem like very much of a realization. I keep thinking maybe that's all I'm allowed to know because I'm at some stunted level of spiritual development, in which case I want to know the way to vastly accelerate my progress, which seems to be somewhat stagnant. Maybe it's just a matter of being a better person until truth culminates and arrives?

Sorry, I realize these are probably? "female" issues that men don't struggle with (sorry if that was a callous generalization - but maybe it's simply hormonally driven or something).

I'm sure eventually I will succumb to being medicated into a state of greater agreeableness. Given that I am already dying, I can't imagine it would make too much of a cosmic difference.
Alicekinnian
Banned
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby Alicekinnian on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:07 pm

I did want to also add a small, humorous tangent. I was talking with my husband about the 9/11 psyop revelation, and he was irritated as usual and we got to talking about objective truth versus truth-acquired-through-depending-on-collectively-acquired-data, and he was extolling the virtue of relying on communal truth. Anyway, somehow this lead to a state of mental exhaustion for me to the point that I re-entered into that state of not-caring-who-lies-to-me-about-what and thinking, practically speaking, what do I value outside of what institutions tell me to value, if I had to practically make a living in a corrupt system the truth of which I may never uncover in this lifetime. And then my eyes centered upon a toilet paper roll. I remember this course we did in college - a summer camp if you will, when we had to go without toilet paper, and I thought, I finally arrived at it. Something the system produces that is genuinely good.

I spoke to my husband about this and said "you know, if I were to go back to work, I think I could take great pride in making tissue paper." He thought I was being facetious at first, but, I explained to him how it seemed totally legitimate to me - it was a product that did not seem to hurt people, that was biodegradable, and that vastly improved the bathroom experience. It quite simply was something I would not want to live without.

I was surprised that as mainstream as he is he turned to me with derision and said "you really need to learn how to wash your **** with water." I was mortified to realize he was probably correct. He went into a joke about deforestation at that point, and I realized once again that I had not arrived upon a product that would be a useful application of my latent engineering skills. It was a refreshing perspective.

I kind of hope for that spiritual insight as well, someone cutting through all my depression with some kind of concrete advice and a novel perspective I never really considered, but that was right there in front of my eyes if I were rightly thinking about it.

But does a person who lives in a society that all uses tissue paper ever contemplating washing off in water where...in the public sink or something? If the entire society is constructed to do one thing, how does one do something differently without being a bizarre, ostracized "freak" if you will?

Or is there value in this marginalization in and of itself?
Alicekinnian
Banned
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby patrix on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:47 pm

I get checked by a certain guy every time I say this, but make sure you get generous amounts of animal fat in your diet (cream, butter etc) and also salt. Our mood and capacity to think is connected to our hormones and they get down regulated when we are malnourished, and that is exactly what a vegetarian diet accomplishes in the long run. Especially if it contains high amounts of processed foods and vegetable oils. Vegan/Vegetarian is one of our most heavily pushed Psyops (in my humble opinion).

I see what you mean regarding the configuration of our solar system not being of vital importance, but to me it's the key to understanding the depth of this conspiracy. Many may disagree even if they accept TYCHOS as true, but I currently have Copernicus filed as an successful attempt to seed divide within the Church and gain harmful influence over science.

Rational thought has to be the ruling principle in science but the Copernican model, and a great deal many other things in science piled on top of it are anything but rational.

9/11, the Space/Nuke Hoax and practically all the other hoaxes picked apart on this forum are rationally sound. It's just that our rational thinking is checked by our feelings. We don't feel something is true. Thus we refuse to reason logically about it. But a plane cannot have two different flight paths if the imagery is from a real event. It is not possible in this world.

And don't get me wrong, but this is not the place for therapy talk. Try to get a positive outlook on life by any means that works for you. Maybe take some long walks and listen to podcasts? I currently found this podcast which i enjoy http://www.lawfulrebel.com/ and of course our good old http://www.theclueschronicle.info/

All the best /Patrik
patrix
Member
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby sykkelmannen on Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:35 pm

Patrix, if "vegan" was one of our most heavily pushed Psyops, everyone would be vegan. If "vegan" is a Psyop, how would you describe the industrial mass murder going on quietly in factory farms around the world?
While you're at it, I'd be interested in your insight pertaining to this pro-vegan reasoning here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-BX-jN_Ac
sykkelmannen
Member
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:16 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby patrix on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:12 pm

sykkelmannen » June 25th, 2018, 4:35 pm wrote:Patrix, if "vegan" was one of our most heavily pushed Psyops, everyone would be vegan. If "vegan" is a Psyop, how would you describe the industrial mass murder going on quietly in factory farms around the world?
While you're at it, I'd be interested in your insight pertaining to this pro-vegan reasoning here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-BX-jN_Ac


My bad opening this can of worms. But let me answer.

Food production can be, and be portrayed as, cruel regardless of what's produced. If a new soy bean field destroys the habitat of some animal for example. The important question is why meat production is singled out as cruel and harmful to the environment in the media. I would say monocrops and fertilizer is far worse than a farm with cows were the waste is used on the fields.

Any human existence is at the expense of animals. I care for animals just as much as anyone else. I just don't by into the idea that we do them any service by not eating meat and dairy. I think the exact opposite actually since by not doing that we cause more harm to the planet and risk our own health.
patrix
Member
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Establishing a Life of Meaning

Postby hoi.polloi on Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:03 am

I don't think this thread really belongs on CluesForum. It seems far too personal. I am sorry. For the time being I will lock it. But when Simon and I get a chance to meet about it, let's see if it belongs for any particular reason. Thank you for your patience, and in the mean time, please do try to contribute original research on the topic of media fakery.

Warm regards,
hp
hoi.polloi
Administrator
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:24 pm


Return to THE LIVING ROOM

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests