Should CluesForum exist?

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest

Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby sunshine05 on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:41 pm

I don't post here much but I do visit the site regularly. It is the only place where contributors genuinely "get it" - the extent of the fakery all around us. I appreciate having a place where these things are openly discussed. It makes me feel less alone.

I've given up on trying to wake people up. I shut down my Sandy Hook blog a few months ago. I felt I needed to break away from it as I grew tired of seeing so much fakery all the time. I just didn't care anymore about sharing it with others and have tried to tune it out as much as possible because there is nothing I can do to change what is happening.

I have gotten to the point where I've accepted the fact that very few people will ever truly see the extent of fakery that exists in our world. I think there are a handful of people (members of this forum) that are more attuned to it for some reason and it takes a sequential progression to see all of the layers - from fake video to fake photos to fake photographers to articles written about fake people with fake lives and fake maps and on and on. It is too much for most to ever fathom. I don't even bother to try to inform people of this anymore. Instead I discuss it with the few people in my life who get it. Everyone else is stuck inside the Matrix.

I believe the fakery even extends beyond what has been discussed here. The ability to manipulate Google/Bing maps allows for an endless potential of psyops.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:45 pm

sunshine, if you are at all really interested in the truth, I hope that you have preserved the blog in some way, and by "shut down" you don't mean "deleted". Please at least keep an archive of everything. The work you have done is vital.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby lux on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:50 am

As I see it Cluesforum isn't for the masses. It's for the tiny minority who can think and reason and see.

Don't be discouraged because your brother-in-law doesn't get CF because he'll never get it. CF is for those who can get it. Just let the rest go their merry way. Ninety-something percent of the population simply cannot think for themselves and no amount of reasoning has any effect on them in the face of big media propaganda. A different solution is needed for them -- one that is realistic. Cluesforum isn't for them and that's fine with me.

Cluesforum is for those who can recognize it, understand it, contribute to it or who can simply enjoy it. And, it's important for that reason.

No, Aunt Bessie won't realize that the JFK assassination was a hoax or that no planes hit the towers. Don't try to tell her. Tell the one-in-a-hundred person you meet at a party who has a spark of intelligence and who seems open to such “wild” ideas. Get them thinking. Forget the rest – it's not our job.

Help wake up the bright ones and forget the snoring majority who are just "along for the ride" anyway. :D
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby ShaneG on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:41 am

If this forum didn't exist, then I think the perpetrators will have effectively won the war(psychological?), as this is the only place that I know of on the internet that goes straight to the bone with regards to the truth surrounding media events.

It's a little bit concerning to think that a place like this could disappear over night for whatever reason. Censorship is in full flow pretty much everywhere else on the internet, so a free thinking person can't enjoy the experience of participating on other forums because the content is watered down and generally quite dumb. I can go on any random forum and have a laugh with people, but deep down I want more than just mindless joking and banter. I want transparency in the way that the world is portrayed via media. It would also be nice to be able to talk to other random people and not feel as though I should be reserving my opinion when it comes to media related topics, but I know from experience that it's like opening up a can of worms and in most cases it makes people uncomfortable/defensive/offensive/ when presented with the 'fakery' subject material. Since reading the dinosaur thread on here I've mentioned the lack of evidence surrounding paleontology and people flat out reject it, they say that I'm living a lie, some times calling me insane, and cite scientific terms such as carbon dating.

At this point, it seems optimistic to think that there will be a turn around in humanites general level of consciousness. Over the past few years I've noticed people are evolving and waking up to the masses of information out there, but >99% of awakenings are being controlled by the disinformation opposition camp. That's not to say that this place should cease to exist, although I do appreciate the argument that the opposition are using this site to improve on further psy ops as they use it as a post psy op error analysis. The problem is that they will improve regardless, and the propaganda will get stronger as time goes on whether this place is here or not. At least while it's here, the legitimate posters can still develop themselves and educate others in the process of unveiling the absurdity of these media simulations.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby nimblehorse on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:36 pm

Should CluesForum exist?

Answer: Hell, YES !

It does exist, it exists in the abstraction that is the Internet, in the 'here & now'(at time of writing) or IF in some future global shut down, then fragmented, part paged on personal hard drives.

It represents many, many hours of diligent research, written in easy layman speak(mostly).

I'm a newby(despite what my stat's, say), with only 14 posts under my belt but I've been reading up on the back threads, most nights for several months.

Very much enjoyed: / Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$ / ENDEAVOUR - and the spaced-out NASA efforts / After the Moon Hoax: SKYLAB / APOLLO HOAX mother of media fakery / 'We Never Went to the Moon' by Bill Kaysing / The MOON HOAX / Does Rocketry Work in the Vacuum? / Satellites : general discussion and musings / & more.

loved the SSSS thread.

I'm probably going to digest the rest given time...

I've not even touched the 9-11 section, I will & know it will be excellent.

I was half way through; OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011, that I felt I should have would have joined clues forum. That is an epic thread and I've got to say, your work(all contributors)(including the pesky trolls) is what convinced me of the VICSIM concept and of Breivik being a media/perp's creation.

Actually what brought me here was following up on the nuke-lies, again quality research in an easy to process format.

I've got to say Clues Forum is an awesome resource/archive
long may it live...not so the Perp's who are due some recompense, IMHO.

A large Thank You to all contributors.

Image
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Sukiari on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:28 am

bostonterrierowner wrote:Where will we go if this forum gets shut down ( god forbid ) ?


That's easy - Usenet. It can not be shut down unless they pull the whole plug on the Internet.

It is the *ONLY* uncensorable, universal, non-commercial, fully distributed forum.

I would argue that it is important to pick a usenet group that will serve as a Cluesforum replacement now, just in case.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Evil Edna on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:46 am

Sukiari wrote:
bostonterrierowner wrote:Where will we go if this forum gets shut down ( god forbid ) ?

That's easy - Usenet. It can not be shut down unless they pull the whole plug on the Internet.
It is the *ONLY* uncensorable, universal, non-commercial, fully distributed forum.
I would argue that it is important to pick a usenet group that will serve as a Cluesforum replacement now, just in case.

It is censorable, and is censored, under the guise of spam filtering. It's performed at the upstream feed level - using something like NoCeM - geddit?- "no see them". http://www.cm.org/faq.html
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby RogerSmith on Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:24 pm

I think the information on this website should be compiled into a concise format and distributed, e.g., a book.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Gygès on Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:46 am

Hello to everyone !

I've not posted it here a lot, and a long time ago, but, however, I did go on reading you and I'm really happy to read this thread now, and to have the opportunity now to say something on this particular subject.

I don't know if some people remember but I've come here for a very short time, but I soon left when I realised I definitely wasn't ready to take part in any forum at the moment. But when I read the question you asked, Hoi-polloi, I thought I should say something and try to share my own impressions about that question.

First I'd like to begin to say you all, and in particular of course, Simon and you, for what you ve done : in a sense it's quite absurd to just say thank you to some people who contributed in very large part to get me OUT of the Box and helped ma a lot to free myself. My "personnal strategy" was to stick on "true" philosophy and "true" wisdom teachings to get me free : I must say this progressive studies were a CRUCIAL factor (I think) in my work for peace of mind and control of myself. Hoever, I do believe I would have been stuck in the matrix, hadn't I read the "clues forum article" one day. This very day, I had the feeling I just got through the big delusion : this was just the thing I just couldn't have imagine alone. I just asked if I would know now that big events like these just could be faked. So, for me, getting this information was just the turning point in my understanding of things.... Then your forum was absolutly needed for me to make the thing just deeply established and just proven. You forum permit someone reasonable to really be absolutly certain that we are faced with lies and fakes. It was the key to free my own mind from this bullshit !!

Please, tell me Hoi-polloi, what more precious present could I have been made ? If there was just me on this planet, and if I had been the only one to have recover my mind in a important thanks to simon, thanks to you, and thanks to all the wonderful who worked here, for themselves, but for others too, to try to help (freely) others to get closer and closer to truth ?

Hoi_polloi, what's blue is in your mind to forget that and not rejoice for what you helped to do ? I just read many posts here, and I read with a lot of attention your threads and talks on this forum : you, in particular, and i'm sure many people here will agree, your personnal insights are of the most profound, and certainly some of the most useful. I just read and memorized how you explained, at a larger scale, and from a larger perspective, the goals and intents of these kind of manipulations and tricks : and I think you are very close to truth and to wisdom because we must "judge the tree by his fruits". And some of your own fruits are many people who could get to a incredibly better understanding of the whole thing, just reading some of your brilliant thoughts. How can one appreciate the price of that ?

And not only you and Simon, thanks to this forum, permitted me to protect myself against these vicious delusions, but also to protect and quite immunize my best friends and my sisters and all the people I love. (you just can't realize how your fruits are spreading.... my little sisters send me emails to say me : "oh another killer ! he still has the name of an animal in his name !!" "my father told me : "this story is so bizarre, why some people would do this ? this has no sense...." and all my best friends are just beginning to understand and be aware now.

Their life is changing too, and in a so free and powerful way ! Of course, it needs time... but I guess it's might only be a question on time now, and of progressive auto-education. Please, simon and you, and everyone who did his best to do something here : please don't undermine what you ve done, and what you're still doing here. I don't see many activities which could me more admirable and helpful to the whole world.

And, after all, isn't demoralisation the deepest point in all this ? Hoi-polloi, won't you go on encourage us towards strength and hope ? I hope and I just bet you will !

(Simon, I've ever thank you once, but I do it again. I hope I will have (and I ll check this, believe me !) honor to do something for you in return, one day. I hope "good fortune" will offer me the chance to give something back for this, even if I don't see how,now. But life is long !.)

Now I'd like to try to share my personal opinion that one can get still closer to truth and peace of mind. I 'm not sure I will be able to express it clearly, but i'll try anyway.

First I'm convinced now that truth must be searched and found in many areas, so that great curiosity, ecclectism, lot of progressive work and researches are needed to see some light on a very large scale. (basically, i mean we shoul all try to help others to get the true and best knowledge about almost everything, or at least tend towards this goal, because I'm convinced now the deepest understanding only can create true freedom.

Secondly, I do think do all of this is against the mind. Therefore control of one's mind appears to me to be the only key. Freeing and controlling oneself seems to me the only real and first goal someone should have : not because I think he shouldn't try to help others too, but because I think that only by becoming free and wise oneself, one can help others to imitate him and to give them the besrt advices and the best clues.
Therefore, I think the study of true philosophy and wisdom teachings (whatever they are if one really tries to get to the truth behind the "lettre" or behing allegories). But because this is mainly esoteric teachings (and most of the fakes are so infested with sytmbolism and esoterism !), I just believe the serious study of symbolism, esoterism and "ocultism" is the way to get to an amazing understanding of what happened, but at a superior, and , stangely in a way, really more simple and obvious. To sum up, I think the "keys" of wisdom are logically esoteric and well concealed, so our present "laack" of knowledge in this area might be the reason for being still in confusion. I do think know there is a path, but one should persist in getting all of the keys one need to get totally free.

I don't think this path can be indicated precisely to anybody, one must reflect on himself and progressively dig deeper and deeper, and find the kowledge he just still lacks, whatever this knowledge is, depending of everyone life, personnality, and so on.... But anyway every one should maybe try to find what he still lacks, where he still lacks some understanding, and then find the deep and appropriate which will lead him to wholeness.

Concerning this knowledge, I'd say all the ancient and true traditionnal teachings from everywhere can help us, if we try to see what is really here, behind alegories, fables and myths : this has just been turned against us, when it was our most precious heritage. So, internet is now the most amazing opportunity for everyone to get to all these wonderful teachings, to decode them rationaly, and to find how they all contain (just as many more recent art masterworks) just what we need to understand the nature of the world, of ourselves, and to learn the path to truth, spiritual growth, true healing, liberation, freedom and ultimately constant joy. I do know now that such a way do exist, and I think most of all our misery
comes from being deprived of these great teachings.

In this particular regard, I'd like to add that I agree 100% with libero when he talks about Mark Passio, (and few guys "like" him). I've listened so many of his interviews, just as some of some others lectures about related subjects, and this was another real KEY element in my deeper and clearer understanding of the "matrix". I just can't tell how many essential clues-for-understanding this man and a few others (I don't know if I should name them too) gave me. I think I just couldn't have understood what these weird "sorcerers" tried to do, why they did that, and how they managed to influence us. To my mind, unestimable teachings, and I also judge him "by the fruits", because at first I must admit these things seemed to me quite ...weird. But now I think it's definitely necessary to face and understand deeply this aspect of the things too, if one really want to go over it. Moreover, some of them give also some unestimable readings advises, and unestimable bibliographical references : digging until one find the "right and good stuff" in every matter seems me to be the best way to get finally and completly enlightened about the whole puzzle, to get out of the labyrinth, and be truly healed.

So that's quite my point about your question Hoi-polloi, and I really hope some good motivation and more joyful energy will run back to you very soon !

Thanks again Simon, and to you all. You just can't imagine how I'm grateful to you all here, and how it gives so much hope and courage everytime I come here to "update" my knowledge.

Please all cultivate and reach joy, because you certainly all deserve it.

"The strategy of man to use a frightening mask and a loud voice to utter lies in order to manipulate friend and foe is as old as mankind. Primitive people used terror-provoking masks, magic fascination, or self-deceit as much as we use loudly spoken words to convince others or ourselves. They use their magic paints and we our ideologies. Truly, we live in an age of ads, propaganda, and publicity. But only under dictatorial and totalitarian regimes have such human habit formations mushroomed into systematic psychological assault on mankind."
A,M, Merloo , Rape of the mind

Human sickness is so severe that few can bare to look at it…., but those who do will become well” Vernon Howard


And since I m still french ("private" joke :lol: ) it's for you simon, and for those who'll take the time to translate !! ( :P )

« Pour atteindre la vérité, il faut une fois dans la vie se défaire de toutes les opinions qu'on a reçues, et reconstruire de nouveau tout le système de ses connaissances. » Descartes

"Le courage, c’est de chercher la vérité et de la dire ; c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe et de ne pas faire écho, de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques..." Jean Jaurès
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Gygès on Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:08 am

Just d' like to add this.

"There is a way out of the human problem and anyone can find it.”

Interview
Q: As the author of self-help books, with some 7 million readers, you must enjoy riding the high wave of success.
A: Success in terms of inner-development is measured by whether people change the way they think, and therefore the way they live. I would consider it a success if one reader in a hundred took the first step toward a higher level of being.

Q: What do you mean by a higher level of being?
A: To understand the higher, you must first understand the lower. You must see that life as you presently live it is a thinly disguised chamber of horrors. Anger, envy, loneliness, fear, guilt and the other demons that inhabit our minds must be exposed for what they really are … phony phantoms! Having emptied ourselves of wrong ideas about ourselves, there is room for Something Higher to enter.

Q: How does one attain this higher state?
A: Begin with self-honesty. Face your life as it actually is. See yourself as you really are. Without ruthless self-honesty, nothing can be done. With it, everything is possible.

Q: Isn’t this ruthless self-honesty a harsh remedy for a person who is suffering?
A: Not if it is used impersonally. We must study ourselves as a scientist studies a problem, objectively. Honest self-inquiry should not include self-blame or any kind of self-reference. This is what is known as non-identification. We are on the way to solving our problems when we learn to see them without calling them “I”.

Q: How about such commonplace human problems as anxiety, stress, depression, loneliness, sex, marital strife or addiction to drugs?
A: If we are the victims of bad experience, bad habits or bad treatment by others, it is not because something is wrong out there, but because something is out of order within us. I’m not condemning anyone. I am stating a fact. You can change jobs, or change mates, or change locations. But nothing will change, really, until you change yourself. I am talking about changing your actual nature. You can, through correct inner work, rise above all such problems, and they will trouble you no more. I promise you that.

Q: Can anyone learn to do this?
A: Each of us has the capacity to gain this new Understanding. But most of us are too comfortable in our suffering. We don’t know anything else. Even when someone tells us we can rise above our problems, we don’t believe it. Nevertheless, there is a way out, and anyone who honestly wants to can find it.

Vernon Howard
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:14 am

Gygès wrote:And not only you and Simon, thanks to this forum, permitted me to protect myself against these vicious delusions, but also to protect and quite immunize my best friends and my sisters and all the people I love. (you just can't realize how your fruits are spreading.... my little sisters send me emails to say me : "oh another killer ! he still has the name of an animal in his name !!" "my father told me : "this story is so bizarre, why some people would do this ? this has no sense...." and all my best friends are just beginning to understand and be aware now.


I'm amazed that you find this to be true in your life. Good for you! I've not one person take me seriously when I talk about media fakery. They may listen politely, but they certainly do not follow up by doing a study of the subject, at least to my knowledge. (Maybe it's because I'm in the U.S., whatever that means.) I do know that I've planted a seed, though.

And that may be all that is needed, for now. My seed was planted in about 1992, when someone told me the moon landings were faked. I laughed at him then, saw some "moon landings were faked" media in the early 2000's, and did a serious look at it in early 2011, which eventually led me to here. I expect the internet will bring quicker germination of seeds.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Gygès on Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:48 pm

Hello Honestly now,

I'm amazed that you find this to be true in your life. Good for you!

To be honest, I just could speak about it to my best friends and close family, and the fact I've pretty much "always" denounced hidden or dark things may be a reason too : I think they could have got used to weird things, so they weren't so much surprised I guess...

I also noticed my generation (I'm 30) and especially those younger than me, can really understand this sophistaction of manipulation quite more easily, and maybe since they haven't yet built their life upon some precise beliefs, maybe it's not as difficult for them as for "adults" to face new paradigms...

I also do think only some people (temperaments) are able to "live" in a profound situation of doubt and worry for a while, because it means that one must accept a great vulnerability.

But I also think things began to be more easy for me to explain, when I didn't try to tell the things like : "you should really know what happens...because you'll see it's true." And I think I know why : some people might be ok to learn some hard news, but they just fear to worry too much and not to be able to cope with it, and to become depressed and so on... so I think they can feel it might not be really healthy to know more.

So now, if I want to talk about this kind of things I try it differently : I just start to talk quite generally about individual psychology (i mean about emotions, reactions, ...) and I talk them about "wisdom" as a way to control one's mind and feelings, and to be really more peaceful. Then I say it's quite the same with society and politics, since all this can be used against us. Then I say : "and you know some people are not ashamed to use all king of tricks ! We just don't realize how much they use them, so I think we just don't protect ourselves enough... whereas we could if we had the good knowledge...".

This way, I see if people want to know more about "manipualtion" and "tricks" : in this case, I just start saying that it's nothing new, that it has always been like that, and I talk about "ancient times" before explaining how they do now. And I say they do it now in a more sophisticated way, because people is now way more sophisticated than before, so it's getting more and more difficult for them to do the job. I've noticed that, this way, people were more interested in knowing because they feel really less scared. On the contrary, if I see they're too scared to learn thiese things, I just go on talking about psychology and wisdom with them, until they feel stronger and want to here about some more scary things.

I also noticed that since I personally now consider wisdom as the real and only remedy to this kind of psychological assaults, I see this "problem" quite differently : I see it less as a problem than as a (weird but) true opportunity for almost anyone to attain some astonishing intellectual and psychological knowledge, as well as true spiritual growth, strength and wisdom.

Besides, the more I think to it, the more I find this may really be the main point to focus on, and I do see things quite this way now :

During thousands of years the very few who could attain "full" knowledge could therefore control (and did control) everyone else, just programming the whole society and poeple as a gigantic computer, which is quite easy to do if you control the minds, just by controlling education (basically controlling vocabulary), and by concealing knowledge. However, I think some spiritual and honest men tried to keep on teaching this knowledge to "good" people, so that "holy" knowledge might be totally lost. (Pythagore schools burnt, Socrate killed, Platon Aristote, and so on ... "About 93 AD Emperor Domitian banished all philosophers from the city" wikipedia)

Then (probably) some romans/greeks/babylonians tried to attain full control and power, "creating" a single book, just presenting it as litteral truth (!), and just using this "initiatic" knowledge to turn it into a weapon, to create and spread spiritual stagnation or devolution around the world, which could then be under their own and only control. (381, Emperor Theodose forbade all ancient (pagan) teachings and definitely closed all the lasting ancient mystery schools)

Historical scholar Jonathan Roberts wrote: "Until Theodosius commanded his subjects to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, and enforced his commands upon them by the most inhumane ways, that doctrine was rejected and resisted by the Greek and Roman followers of the Christos…That so senseless and unnatural doctrine should have been forced upon any people, by any means, however tyrannical."

But, altough things must have been really well thought and organized in the aim of full control, I think they just couldn't prevent intelligence, culture and knowledge to grow, altough very slowly, centuries after centuries, in spite of their efforts... So there was printing, then their may have had to give people some little instruction to "update" us to the new societies they create. Unfortunately for them, science increased, knowledge increased, and the mass seemed definitely to be more intelligent than they thought... I think many of them really thought they controlled the fondamentals in such a perfect way that nobody could ever rediscover and collect all the informations which are necessary to get to "Truth" and see the clearly the whole picture. I just think they couldn't really anticipate how many amazing tools science and technology would bring so quicly. They might have hoped we could never learn to think rationnaly, be able to investigate and clear the past, and to lay hands on the true ancient esoteric teachings and interpret it correctly, so that we could reempower ousrselves and just get free. I think nom thay were just .... wrong. Because that's just what "we" are doing now !

So, more briefly, I think they just did a really good job, until now. But, now, I think they're just doing all what they can, to spread confusion, fear, and madness, just to "keep us OFF the right track" (from Alim Bey lecture on google, "Alchemy of Shaman Healers") and keep our attention focused away from all kind of truths and especially away from wisdom teachings. (Really think they love to give us some truth when they know we don't possess enough "wisdom tools", because they know it will hurt us, break us, depress everybody, etc...).

So again that's just my point, but I really think they're now in a real mess : if we have found some truth, some of us, we'll get to more and more truth in many areas now ; besides all the wisdo teachings will be collected and compared so that everybody will notice they're JUST THE SAME, so many of them will empower themselves with it, then ... teach it, and spread it. Real truth and true wisdom will just spread. At this moment...they ll be done... Not a dream, just how things just can only be, according to me.

Courage to all ! :)

https://www.google.fr/search?q=tapisser ... l&tbm=isch
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:36 pm

I have had a little experience talking with people first in large philosophical concepts that CluesForum research tends to set for one's mind-frame. It is, in my experience, as you suggest, more successful than starting from the little hoaxes like the Reichstag Fire or 9/11 and working backwards.
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Re: Should CluesForum exist?

Unread postby Gygès on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:09 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:I have had a little experience talking with people first in large philosophical concepts that CluesForum research tends to set for one's mind-frame. It is, in my experience, as you suggest, more successful than starting from the little hoaxes like the Reichstag Fire or 9/11 and working backwards.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

Personally, I now try to begin with psychology, even before philosophy, because studying greek philosophers, I realised that if they called themselves philosophers, in fact, they meant they were dealing with psychology and spiritual development, with the aim of being happy and free. So that was less a study of doctrines, as it is considered now, than an initiatic process based upon introspection, lucidity, especially towards oneself. The goal, even if they were talking about morality, was to attain peace of mind, that is to say "psychological immunity", that is to say "happiness". I noticed this way people were more interested in philosophy, because I noticed almost everybody is interested in psychology, whereas philosophy and morals have been given a quite unfriendly reputation.

Moreover I believed, at first, that the problem was essentially political and collective ; but now I do think that the remedies and solutions are only personal, psychological. I don't believe that one, individually, can solve the problems of the whole world, and I don't think too that some or even many people could do it joining in a collective movement. I just think that everyone can try to work on himself first, so that he may attain strenth, serenity and a deep understanding of the issue at a psychological scale, and then help other individuals to attain such state of comfort, well-being and even true optimism. So I do think it's easier to talk about these things and to convince people to make some researches about that, if they can see we are, ourselves, very calm and well after doing it. It's definitely better if one can explain the problem and the remedy in the same time, because I think that only few people are able to face some scary issues, even before they have the solution to it, or without even knowing if there any solution at all.

And I would had that "they" are very good at giving sort of a "bad" reputation to certain things or subjects, so that the persons who could learn a lot from it stay far away from these matters. I also say this because I had seen the "no plane" theory many times before reading Simon's article but I just didn't pay attention to it or laughed. And I recently had the same experience with what we call now "astrology" : the fact is that I found a quote from C.G.Jung : "Astrology represents the summation of all the psychological knowledge of antiquity." C.G. Jung

I respect Jung a lot, so I just get interested into that. Well, basically, I know now why Jung said that. And I realised I could have studied psychology just I had done until now for years, without never once even guess astrology was about psychology and caracteroly. Just the same for Tarot : just didn't know that it was essentially about psychological and philosophical improvement. Again just the same with occultism, alchemy, esoterism, hermetism, and so on... I discovered all that apparently weird stuff was just the best tools for me. So that was just personnal examples, but that's how it happened for me. The most useful discoveries for me in recent times were those, which at first, seemed to me to be just out of the subject. But I was just wrong. Now I try to be more open, and to be the most "ecclectic" than I can, because I experienced the best results for me since I opened my mind to new horizons.

So, just to share my experience again.

Bye all.
Gygès
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