Thoughts on Christianity

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
Dcopymope
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Re: The Truth About Christmas

Unread post by Dcopymope »

fbenario wrote:
Dcopymope wrote:From what I can see, the only group that have been "demonized" and made into a minority in America are Christians.
You don't think Muslims have been demonized in America?
On the whole throughout history, the religious book that is attacked the most by far is the Bible. When you hear of any criticism of any religious text anywhere you go, 99% of the time its about the Bible, and its always the same exact long discredited accusations that keep rearing its head, the copy cat thesis being one of the main ones, and the weakest. On the matter of any religious text that claims to be the inspired word of God on matters of the past, present and future in particular, you can rest assured that it won't be the Koran or any other religious book that will be attacked but the Bible, especially its creation account.
hoi.polloi
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The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

It's hard to place Dcopymope. He is right that true Christians, not those who just go to church and kill people "for God" — arguably, not Christians at all — but those who follow Christian law, the meek/humble/do-unto-others types are considered extremists and mocked daily on our televisions. So even if I don't agree with Christian beliefs, I understand why it's important to allow a voice for that psychologically attacked people.

I also want to allow the voices of the other side of this psychological attack, which are the voices of reasoners and thinkers who dislike the Religious cause, because they have been shouted into a corner often as much as Dcopymope's type of person.

How can we create peace between us on this forum? There are precious few real people researching things and putting up new relevant research. He has but one thread lately where he posts: this one. Perhaps we should just create one called "The Truth About Christianity" which seems broader, more open for more contributions and less focused on YouTube videos. So I have changed the title of this thread. Hopefully, now everyone feels more like they can contribute to the discussion.

Although few of us may share Dcopymope's beliefs, his particular passion drives him to research the truth behind the history of symbols, and that to me is very important. By and large, symbols are appropriated and rewritten for the purposes of mainstream thought control. Having documentarians watching how those symbols — and the associated stories — are manipulated is closely related to watching how spin doctors and radio pundits upturn the meanings of powerful leverage words used in the interests of populous movements.

It seems they do this because it robs the citizenry of its power to argue, its power to organize in its interests or even educate their own children, and it arms idiot copycats with verbal machine-gun buzz speech to cease the debate before its begun. FoxNews loves to do this as well. They are like radio pundits with an accompanying hypno-cartoon just to drive the fucking point home.

But since Dcopymope seems content to correct us on what he perceives as facts, for the most part, and warn us of when we are too content to copy and paste speech that may be erroneous, I think it keeps debates alive and open to include his better posts. It prevents symbols from becoming stagnant and easy to manipulate by the powers that be. In my opinion, he helps add more questions, he gives the power to argue atheist, agnostic and Christian points better, because of his focus on facts.

However, Dcopymope, please try to keep proselytizing below your previous minimum and do stick to the facts, as you've done in the most recent post, which was actually interesting. Maybe try to be aware that the Christian-y videos are going to make a lot of people feel attacked. Including myself, because I am not much of a believer. Sound alright?

The book you mention, for those of us without easy access — can you provide some noteworthy proofs mentioned in the book, if you don't mind people potentially disagreeing with you?
Farcevalue
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Farcevalue »

Blasphemy is Punishable by Death (NRSV) — Leviticus 24:16

One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. (NRSV) — Leviticus 24:16

Cheaters Must Die (NIV) — Leviticus 20:10

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (NIV) — Leviticus 20:10

People Who Work on Sunday Should be Killed (NLT) — Exodus 35:2

You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on that day must be put to death. (NLT) — Exodus 35:2

Laws of Rape (NLT) - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Murder Rape and Pillage Deuteronomy 20:10-14

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Sex Slaves (NLT) - Exodus 21:7-11

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (NLT) - Exodus 21:7-11

This is a random sampling of divinely condoned biblical atrocity. There are oodles more. Naturally we hear more about walking through the valley of the shadow of death, lying in green pastures, looking through glasses darkly and the rest of the Hot 100 that are antidotes to the unsavory.

No more evidence than the document itself is required for debunking its authenticity as inerrant, divinely inspired and worthy of being considered as anything that should be given credence in terms of moral authority.

As for the new testament overturning the old, direct from the messiah:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
Dcopymope
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Dcopymope »

hoi.polloi wrote:It's hard to place Dcopymope. He is right that true Christians, not those who just go to church and kill people "for God" — arguably, not Christians at all — but those who follow Christian law, the meek/humble/do-unto-others types are considered extremists and mocked daily on our televisions. So even if I don't agree with Christian beliefs, I understand why it's important to allow a voice for that psychologically attacked people.

I also want to allow the voices of the other side of this psychological attack, which are the voices of reasoners and thinkers who dislike the Religious cause, because they have been shouted into a corner often as much as Dcopymope's type of person.

How can we create peace between us on this forum? There are precious few real people researching things and putting up new relevant research. He has but one thread lately where he posts: this one. Perhaps we should just create one called "The Truth About Christianity" which seems broader, more open for more contributions and less focused on YouTube videos. So I have changed the title of this thread. Hopefully, now everyone feels more like they can contribute to the discussion.

Although few of us may share Dcopymope's beliefs, his particular passion drives him to research the truth behind the history of symbols, and that to me is very important. By and large, symbols are appropriated and rewritten for the purposes of mainstream thought control. Having documentarians watching how those symbols — and the associated stories — are manipulated is closely related to watching how spin doctors and radio pundits upturn the meanings of powerful leverage words used in the interests of populous movements.

It seems they do this because it robs the citizenry of its power to argue, its power to organize in its interests or even educate their own children, and it arms idiot copycats with verbal machine-gun buzz speech to cease the debate before its begun. FoxNews loves to do this as well. They are like radio pundits with an accompanying hypno-cartoon just to drive the fucking point home.

But since Dcopymope seems content to correct us on what he perceives as facts, for the most part, and warn us of when we are too content to copy and paste speech that may be erroneous, I think it keeps debates alive and open to include his better posts. It prevents symbols from becoming stagnant and easy to manipulate by the powers that be. In my opinion, he helps add more questions, he gives the power to argue atheist, agnostic and Christian points better, because of his focus on facts.

However, Dcopymope, please try to keep proselytizing below your previous minimum and do stick to the facts, as you've done in the most recent post, which was actually interesting. Maybe try to be aware that the Christian-y videos are going to make a lot of people feel attacked. Including myself, because I am not much of a believer. Sound alright?

The book you mention, for those of us without easy access — can you provide some noteworthy proofs mentioned in the book, if you don't mind people potentially disagreeing with you?
Well, for one, this part of the forum is titled "The Living Room" for a place to "relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest" as the subtitle is called. Nowhere does it say that whatever is discussed had to be confined to media fakery. I wouldn't be posting information with a more Christian bent in "The Living Room" if there weren't any Christians here in the first place, which is why I'm doing it, not to get a non-believer to convert to my faith, whether you see it as "proselytizing" or not. If people feel attacked by what I post, well quite frankly, I don't concern myself with feelings. As a Christian, we get the same type of reactions from people rather its on this site, AboveTopSecret, or any of the other bigger conspiracy sites that have sections just for discussion of a more religious nature, only the reactions are far worse. The non-believer claims they don't believe, the atheist especially, yet they just can't seem to stay away no matter where I look. :lol:

Now here are some quotes from the book "The Case for the Real Jesus" as you requested. These are all from the fourth chapter since its about the copy cat thesis that was made popular with films like Zeitgeist and repeated by 'bostonterrierowner' and other members of this forum. The book isn't written in the form you typically expect. Since the author used to be an investigative journalist, its written in interview form as he discusses the more prevalent accusations against the identity of Jesus with actual experts in the field of theology, religion and the ancient languages thereof.
Challenge #4 "Christianity's Beliefs about Jesus Were Copied from Pagan Religions":

A Nearly Universal Consensus

"Why," I asked Licona, "Should the story of Jesus' resurrection have any more credibility than pagan stories of dying and rising gods-such as Osiris, Adonis, Attis and Marduk-that are so obviously mythological?"

Licona was well versed on this controversy. "First of all, its important to understand that these claims don't in any way negate the good historical evidence we have for Jesus' resurrection, which I spelled out in our earlier discussion," he pointed out. "You can't dismiss the resurrection unless you can refute its solid core of supporting evidence." I agree that was an important caveat to keep in mind-and one which "copycat theorists" typically forget.

"Second, T.N.D. Mettinger- a senior Swedish scholar, professor at Lund University, and member of the Royal Academy of Letters, History, and Antiquites of Stockholm- wrote one of the recent academic treatments of dying and rising gods in antiquyity. He admits in his book The Riddle of Resurrection that the consensus among modern scholars- nearly universal -is that there were no dying and rising gods that preceded Christianity. They all post-dated the first century."

Obviously, that timing is absolutely crucial: Christianity couldn't have borrowed the idea of the resurrection if myths about dying and rising gods weren't even circulating when Christianity was birthed in the first century AD.

"Then Mettinger said he was going to take exception to that nearly universal scholarly conviction." Licona continued. "He takes a decidedly minority position and claims that there are at least three and possibly as many as five dying and rising gods that predate Christianity. But the key question is this: Are there any actual parallels between these myths and Jesus' resurrection?"

"What did Mettinger conclude?" I asked.

"In the end, after combing through all these accounts and critically analyzing them, Mettinger adds that none of these serve as parallels to Jesus. None of them," Licona emphasized.

"They are far different from the reports of Jesus rising from the dead. They occurred in the unspecified and distant past and were usually related to the seasonal life-and death cycle of vegetation.........
In other words, if people want to make the accusation that any religion 'stole' from anybody at all, then it was the Pagans that stole from Christianity, not the other way around. Christians could have easily pointed this out a long time ago, but this copycat thesis was discredited centuries ago by the scholars of the day so they didn't take it seriously enough to address it and nor do most Christians today. As was the case centuries ago, the only accusations of "plagiarism" we see from anybody today are coming mainly from atheists, new agers and closet satanists/Freemasons with an agenda. Its a theory that started rearing its head again only recently, obviously because they are getting desperate.
Bowling in Heaven

Mettingers assessment was extremely significant, but I wanted to dig deeper into the mythology. "Do I understand correctly that these ancient myths were used to try and explain why things died in the fall and came back in the spring?" I asked.

"Yes, things like that," Licona replied. "When I was a kid, I asked my mom, 'Whats thunder?' She said, 'its angels bowling in heaven.' Obviously, that's just a story. Similarly, in ancient Canaan, a kid would ask his mom, 'Why does the rain stop in the summer?' And his mom would tell him the story of Baal."

"Is this one of the myths that Mettinger thinks predates Christianity?" I asked.

"Thats right. In one of the more popular stories, Baal is the storm god in heaven. He's responsible for the rain. His nemesis is Mot, who's in the netherworld. One day Mot and Baal are trash-talking each other. Mot says, 'You think you're tough, Baal? You leave behind your clouds and lightning bolts and wind and rain and come on down here-I'll show you who your daddy is. 'So Baal leaves everything behind and goes to the underworld-where Mot swallows him. How do we know this? It stopped raining!"

"Later, Baals mother goes down and tells Mot, 'Let my son go!' Mot says, 'No!' So she brutalizes him until he finally says, 'Okay, mercy! Go away and I'll let him go!' She leaves the netherworld, and a couple of months later, Baal's dad says, 'Our sons alive.' How does he know? Its raining again!"

"This is like my mom trying to explain thunder to me as a child. They talked about this every year: Baal died and Baal came back. Nobody ever saw it. There were no eyewitnesses. It supposedly occurred in the gray, distant, undated past. It was a fable to explain why there was no rain in the summer-and nothing more. Now, does that sound anything like the resurrection of Jesus? Absolutely not!............"

That's just one myth, I thought to myself. There were still others to consider. "How about the other fables that are commonly mentioned?" I asked.

"Attis? This myth is older than Christianity but the first report we have of a resurrection comes long after the first century. Adonis is more than a hundred years after Jesus. There's no clear account in antiquity of Marduk even dying-and so a resurrection is even less clear. Some scholars say Tammuz is an account of a dying and rising god- buts that's disputed, and besides, its not a good parallel since there are no reports of an appearance or an empty tomb and this myth was tied to the changing of the seasons."

"What about Osiris?"

"Osiris is interesting," he said, smiling. "The most popular account says Osiris's brother killed him, chopped him into fourteen pieces, and scattered them around the world. Well, the goddess Isis feels compassion for Osiris, so she looks for his body parts to give him a proper burial. She only finds thirteen of them, puts them back together, and Osiris is buried. But he doesn't come back to this world; he's given the status of god of the netherworld-a gloomy, shadowy place of semi-consciousness. As a friend of mine says, 'This isn't a resurrection, its a zombification!' This is no parallel to Jesus' resurrection, for which there is strong historical evidence."
Zeitgeist, History Rewritten - a Powerpoint Presentation by Chris White:
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfijDrxUPs
Jove
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Jove »

I was a Christian at one point, or at least called myself Christian, and I read some of Lee Strobel’s books (the author Dcopymope refers to). They weren’t particularly compelling to me even at the time, because I was taking a lot of philosophy courses in university and Strobel’s arguments didn’t address the sort of metaphysical questions I had about God and the afterlife.

The thing about religion is that you should question it at least as rigorously as you question the news. But then I believe that we should each do our own research on everything – quite literally. Accepting facts without coming to them by your own means is the root of the whole problem we’re facing on this forum. Hearing that something is true doesn’t make it true, no matter how many people are saying it to you.

That idea might get me institutionalized one day, but for now I’m doing pretty well figuring out things for myself. I’m trying to figure out my own theory of the universe, not because I want to win a prize, but because I’m that curious about it and I’ve come to question everything I’ve been told. I had a shaky start in life but I’ve come to value my own ideas.

But back to religion.

Lee Strobel is attractive to some people because he did (or at least claims he did) his own research into the subject of Christianity and came up with some conclusions about it. But really, we shouldn’t take his word for it either. We shouldn’t even bother to read his conclusions! We should merely be inspired to research the things he looked into and see for ourselves what conclusions we come to.

But as I mentioned before, Lee Strobel’s research questions weren’t the one’s I’d pick. I don’t want to know if Jesus was a real historical person. I don’t want to know if the Bible is reliable. I figure that if God is real, I should be able to come to that conclusion without resorting to just believing what somebody else said about it. I should be able to figure this out without the Bible, for instance, because why should I believe anything I’m told?

I’ve done my own investigations into the nature of existence and reality and I don’t think anybody in the world needs to hear my conclusions. I’m excited about the things I’m figuring out but I don’t bother telling people because they need to figure out their own truths and certainly not take my word for it. It would be hypocritical of me to try to convince anyone of what I believe about science, for instance, no matter how true I think it is.

Anyway, that’s my rant for the evening. I don’t post much but I’m always grateful this forum exists.
fbenario
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by fbenario »

Jove wrote:I’m excited about the things I’m figuring out but I don’t bother telling people because they need to figure out their own truths and certainly not take my word for it. It would be hypocritical of me to try to convince anyone of what I believe about science, for instance, no matter how true I think it is.
So then why do you bother posting anything at all here? If you aren't willing to accept anyone else's findings on any subject, why would you take an antibiotic if diagnosed with a bacterial infection, just to take an obvious example?

If no one here were interested in sharing his thoughts/findings/theories, how would our collective increased knowledge of media fakery have any hope of making the world a better place?
Jove
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Jove »

So then why do you bother posting anything at all here? If you aren't willing to accept anyone else's findings on any subject, why would you take an antibiotic if diagnosed with a bacterial infection, just to take an obvious example?

If no one here were interested in sharing his thoughts/findings/theories, how would our collective increased knowledge of media fakery have any hope of making the world a better place?
I would take the antibiotic as a research experiment. Honestly, that's how I'd view it, as an experiment. As for sharing, I do so occasionally when I find like-minded people who would enjoy hearing someone else's ideas. I enjoy hearing ideas, by the way, but that doesn't mean I will believe them. I also find it worthwhile to point out avenues of exploration that people can then research for themselves. But that's just me.

I think the idea of collective increased knowledge has been overemphasized and has led to the wildly corpulent universities that churn out students with narrow-focused educations and degrees that often fail to attract job offers. On this forum we suspect even those highly specialized geniuses, such as Stephen Hawking or Einstein, upon whose shoulders we are supposed to be standing, as being frauds to some degree. My way may be extreme but I like to know a little bit about everything.

Also, before you ask, I responded to your query because you asked me, and while you might have been asking rhetorically I have the misfortune of taking things too literally.

Mods, I apologize if this is derailing from the thread's topic.
Libero
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Libero »

Why does ex-atheist, ex-attorney, ex-newspaper editor Lee Strobel only appear to preach reinforcement of the officially reported stories from the media? Do the Christians on board agreeing with many of CF's findings and who use their own minds to come to their own conclusions somehow have a better "in" with their creator?
Why Does God Allow Tragedy and Suffering?
Reflections on the shooting tragedy in Aurora, Colorado.
Lee Strobel

"The following is adapted from a sermon preached by author and apologist Lee Strobel on Sunday, July 22, at Cherry Hills Community Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado."
It's already being called the worst mass shooting in American history: 70 people shot by a gunman, 12 of them killed, while they were watching the midnight showing of a new movie. It all happened just 21 miles from where we're sitting. There are no words to describe the anguish being felt by those who are suffering today; our heart and prayers have, and will, go out to them. There are so many tragic stories, so much pain. And many people are asking the question, "Why? Why did God allow this?"

...That "why" question is not a new one; it goes back thousands of years. It was asked in the Old Testament by Job and the writers of the Psalms, and it was especially relevant during the 20th Century, where we witnessed two World Wars, the Holocaust, genocides in the Soviet Union and China, devastating famines in Africa, the killing fields of Cambodia, the emergence of AIDS, the genocide in Rwanda and the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo. And the 21st Century didn't start any better. There was 9/11 and now the Syrian slaughters, and on and on. Why do all of these horrific things happen if there's a loving and powerful God? Why do bad things happen to good people?

...But why? If you ask me, "Why did God allow the gunman to spray the Aurora movie theater with gunfire just two days ago?" the only answer I can honestly give consists of four words: "I do not know."

I don't have God's mind; I don't share his perspective. In 1 Corinthians 13:12 we're told, "Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity."

Someday we'll see with clarity, but for now things are foggy. We can't understand everything from our finite perspective. And frankly, the people suffering from the Aurora tragedy don't need a big theological treatise right now; any intellectual response is going to seem trite and inadequate. What they desperately need now is the very real and comforting presence of Jesus Christ in their lives. And I'm so grateful that so many churches and ministries of this community are helping them experience that.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/201 ... agedy.html


In his "About" page, it appears that he led a team that won UPI’s top award for investigative reporting in Illinois... Hmmm.

http://www.leestrobel.com/Bio.php

He appears to have written many books -- a few titles making "Cases" for the relevant subjects (some even made into documentaries ). But that is what attorneys and authors do, afterall.

http://www.leestrobel.com/store.php

I suppose if I were to be more like Lee and wanted to go off and find the "Case for Truth about 9/11" then, per his same method of investigation, this should likely be my "Bible" of choice. Perhaps the chapter about Building 7 will appear in a later, newer testament. <_<

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report
Last edited by Libero on Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
Dcopymope
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Dcopymope »

Farcevalue wrote: As for the new testament overturning the old, direct from the messiah:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
This is just another example of quoting bits & pieces of scripture that agree's with your bias while ignoring the rest. Trying to follow the over 600 mosaic laws in the old testament isn't what saves a Christian in the end, and the only person that ever lived a sinless life in accordance to the Ten Commandments, God's actual laws handed down to Moses, was Jesus himself, and all have fallen short of his glory. This is why Christianity is not a works based faith, we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus alone, not by works. The ultimate reason is simple, if Jesus was God in the flesh then that means he is the law.

link http://godwords.org/112/should-christia ... ment-laws/
Should Christians follow Old Testament Laws?

Here’s a simple answer to one of the many questions that never go away:

Should Christians follow Old Testament law?

Absolutely not.

The Old Testament is primarily a record of God’s interaction with the Israelites. The laws given to Moses (the Ten Commandments) were given specifically for them in the context of God’s covenant with them.

The Mosaic Law never applied to anyone else.

Even if the Law did somehow apply to non-Jews, it doesn’t apply to Christians today. In fact, the New

Testament clearly teaches this very simple concept:

So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith

has come, we are no longer under a guardian. (Galatians 3:24-25)

The ‘Righteousness of God’ is now manifested apart from the Law. (Romans 3:21)

the Law brings about wrath. (Romans 4:15)

We are not under the Law. (Romans 6:14)

We have been released from the Law. (Romans 7:6)

the Law is a law of sin and death…not of life. (Romans 8:2)

the Law is weak. (Romans 8:3)

the Law is in contrast to grace. (Galatians 2:21)

the Law is not of faith. (Galatians 3:12)

the Law is a curse. (Galatians 3:13)

Christ redeemed us from the Law. (Galatians 3:13)

the Law was temporary, until the Messiah came. (Galatians 3:19)

the Law kept us in custody until a later faith was revealed. (Galatians 3:23)

the Law was a tutor to lead us to Christ. (Galatians 3:24)

Seeking to be justified by the Law severs us from Christ. (Galatians 5:4)

This simply couldn’t be any clearer: Christians should not use Old Testament laws as a guide for living.
Murder Rape and Pillage Deuteronomy 20:10-14

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
The rest of the scripture:
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
Of course those who scoff at the Bible always bring up key events to accuse God of "genocide" or some other crime noting Noah's flood, the murder of the first born of every Egyptian, and the Israelite's conquest into the land of Canaan among others as partly quoted in the verses above. The reasoning behind God's commandment to kill everything that breathed in the cities that belonged to the Canaanites and others listed was the same reason he deep fried Sodom and Gomorrah extra crispy. It was because of the rampant incest, adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, the burnt offerings of their children to their deities, and of course their alliance with the same blood sucking cannibalistic giants that came about from the union of angels and human women which was the main reason why God carried out the global enema known as the flood in the first place. They weren't as "innocent" as people like you try and make them out to be. It was an absolute infestation that needed to be weeded out. If you have a problem with God's way of carrying out pest control, then that's your problem. No man's idea of what is morally just supersedes Gods judgement on morality, because he is the law, and he can change them if he wants as he has throughout scripture, and I don't see any "rape" being justified anywhere.
Rudy Algera
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Rudy Algera »

Thank God I'm an atheist!
simonshack
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by simonshack »

Dcopymope wrote: (...) and of course their alliance with the same blood sucking cannibalistic giants that came about from the union of angels and human women which was the main reason why God carried out the global enema known as the flood in the first place.
Here's a passionate guy arguing for the existence of these mythical, pre-flood giants - known as the 'Nephilims' :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5Qs2Q#t=56

At 55secs into the video, the guy goes:

"Now, to tell you the truth, even if there weren't skeleton remains I would still believe there were - because God said there were. But the truth is also there are skeleton remains of it for those who don't have as much faith as others - because the Bible is real, regardless if you believe in it or not. Uh, actually the Bible doesn't care if you believe in it or not - because it is real."

OMG... I must say that such "methods of reasoning and argumentation" make my head spin - and rather painfully so ... :mellow:
pov603
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by pov603 »

Let's hope our bible-pushing brethren don't think your head is spinning in an Exorcist-type manner!
Dcopymope
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Dcopymope »

simonshack wrote:
Dcopymope wrote: (...) and of course their alliance with the same blood sucking cannibalistic giants that came about from the union of angels and human women which was the main reason why God carried out the global enema known as the flood in the first place.
Here's a passionate guy arguing for the existence of these mythical, pre-flood giants - known as the 'Nephilims' :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5Qs2Q#t=56

At 55secs into the video, the guy goes:

"Now, to tell you the truth, even if there weren't skeleton remains I would still believe there were - because God said there were. But the truth is also there are skeleton remains of it for those who don't have as much faith as others - because the Bible is real, regardless if you believe in it or not. Uh, actually the Bible doesn't care if you believe in it or not - because it is real."

OMG... I must say that such "methods of reasoning and argumentation" make my head spin - and rather painfully so ... :mellow:
Speaking about the giants, first, they weren't just pre-flood, they existed well after the flood as well according to the Bible. Whether such evidence of them exists is not important to me at this point in time. For the sake of argument, I already went over the motives for suppressing their existence and their eventual possible "uncovering" later on down the road by the same group. If such 'proof' were to be put on display for the world to see, it will in a sense be interpreted the same way the anti-Christs miracles will be explained. Like I've discussed in the 'Are movies watchable' thread, the supernatural origin of the 'anti-Christ' and his miracles will be interpreted in a naturalistic or evolutionist standpoint, as the New Age movement is already doing. The same will be done with any unveiling or 'discovery' of giant humanoid like skeletons to keep the Bible out of the picture. In fact, they might be used to prop up the ancient astronaut theory or the interventionist theory of evolution, I personally call them ancient astronaut Darwinist. This is why discussion of any 'proof' now or in the future of such creatures just for the sake of discussion is irrelevant to me. I'm all about motives when it comes down to it.

The Nephilim - Giants in the Bible:
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8igtUzV-yE
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by Dcopymope »

To elaborate on my views on the giants, there has been lots of talk on the net about the giants in the Bible and whether or not there is evidence of their existence. Apparently there remains have been found over the years either in whole or in part, but as I've stated before, whether or not any of it is legit is not my concern at this point in time, because this is a world of people with agendas and motives. If they have to fake a plane flying into a building, or stage an archaeological hoax to fulfill those goals, then they will do it. Its only a means to an end goal when it comes down to it. This is all about determining the motive for their concealment and their possible 'unveiling' at a later date. For the sake of argument, I'm going to conclude that establishment groups like the Smithsonian Institute discovered their remains a long time ago and are keeping them locked away in storage as some suspect for a long term agenda.

Just like the high possibility that the Anti-Christ might be presented as an alien from another planet as I discuss in detail in the thread titled "Are movies watchable", I believe that the skeletal remains of the giants might be used to prop up the ancient astronaut theory. I don't believe they will try and present them as evolution's "missing link", or as the New Age's "ascended master", because that's where the anti-Christ will come in.

Knowing how the ancient astronaut Darwinists twisted scripture to make the 'sons of god' out to be E.T's that impregnated the women through artificial insemination as shown in the video below, it gives a more clear motive for how the giants remains will be presented to the public. This won't be the same as previous archaeological hoaxes of the past like the Piltdown man that was exposed as such years later. In order to truly con the world and the scientific community especially, the bones will have to be the legitimate remains of the Nephilim.

Nephilim - AA Debunked:
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkpUydg-RAE

We know that neither the Bible, extra Biblical text or any other ancient religious text referring to the same type of event gives no indication whatsoever of "artificial insemination" and we know the difference between an E.T and an angel. Both are "aliens", only the latter is celestial in origin, meaning beyond nature. As I've stated before, a big part of this deception working is in presenting the anti-Christ/fallen angels as E.T's instead of what they truly are to keep the Bible out of the picture, so that what is 'natural' displaces the supernatural, and henceforth displaces sound Biblical doctrine. Since the giants weren't indeed quite 100% human according to the Bible, when the bones existence are acknowledged, put on display and analyzed by different "scientific groups", we are likely to start hearing public statements like "part of the DNA in the bones are not quite of this world" or "we can't compare part of this DNA to any known creature of earth".

This is where NASA will likely come in and present their "findings" to "confirm" that they were indeed the product of an E.T experiment gone wrong or something along those lines. It might be proposed that these creatures were a "scientific experiment" gone wrong, but the main purpose of this hoax is to simply convince the world that there are "aliens" out there (as vague as the term "aliens" may be), and that they had a hand in our ancient past, without a shadow of a doubt . This will be the kick start for the E.T hoax in a nutshell, giving a more solid foundation that the anti-Christ can plausibly present himself on to deceive the world about his true nature. I'm not convinced that an alien hoax can be pulled off any other way short of the Anti-Christ presenting himself as one.
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Re: The Truth About Christianity

Unread post by bostonterrierowner »

:puke: :puke: :puke:
Dcopymope wrote:To elaborate on my views on the giants, there has been lots of talk on the net about the giants in the Bible and whether or not there is evidence of their existence. Apparently there remains have been found over the years either in whole or in part, but as I've stated before, whether or not any of it is legit is not my concern at this point in time, because this is a world of people with agendas and motives. If they have to fake a plane flying into a building, or stage an archaeological hoax to fulfill those goals, then they will do it. Its only a means to an end goal when it comes down to it. This is all about determining the motive for their concealment and their possible 'unveiling' at a later date. For the sake of argument, I'm going to conclude that establishment groups like the Smithsonian Institute discovered their remains a long time ago and are keeping them locked away in storage as some suspect for a long term agenda.

Just like the high possibility that the Anti-Christ might be presented as an alien from another planet as I discuss in detail in the thread titled "Are movies watchable", I believe that the skeletal remains of the giants might be used to prop up the ancient astronaut theory. I don't believe they will try and present them as evolution's "missing link", or as the New Age's "ascended master", because that's where the anti-Christ will come in.

Knowing how the ancient astronaut Darwinists twisted scripture to make the 'sons of god' out to be E.T's that impregnated the women through artificial insemination as shown in the video below, it gives a more clear motive for how the giants remains will be presented to the public. This won't be the same as previous archaeological hoaxes of the past like the Piltdown man that was exposed as such years later. In order to truly con the world and the scientific community especially, the bones will have to be the legitimate remains of the Nephilim.

Nephilim - AA Debunked:
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkpUydg-RAE

We know that neither the Bible, extra Biblical text or any other ancient religious text referring to the same type of event gives no indication whatsoever of "artificial insemination" and we know the difference between an E.T and an angel. Both are "aliens", only the latter is celestial in origin, meaning beyond nature. As I've stated before, a big part of this deception working is in presenting the anti-Christ/fallen angels as E.T's instead of what they truly are to keep the Bible out of the picture, so that what is 'natural' displaces the supernatural, and henceforth displaces sound Biblical doctrine. Since the giants weren't indeed quite 100% human according to the Bible, when the bones existence are acknowledged, put on display and analyzed by different "scientific groups", we are likely to start hearing public statements like "part of the DNA in the bones are not quite of this world" or "we can't compare part of this DNA to any known creature of earth".

This is where NASA will likely come in and present their "findings" to "confirm" that they were indeed the product of an E.T experiment gone wrong or something along those lines. It might be proposed that these creatures were a "scientific experiment" gone wrong, but the main purpose of this hoax is to simply convince the world that there are "aliens" out there (as vague as the term "aliens" may be), and that they had a hand in our ancient past, without a shadow of a doubt . This will be the kick start for the E.T hoax in a nutshell, giving a more solid foundation that the anti-Christ can plausibly present himself on to deceive the world about his true nature. I'm not convinced that an alien hoax can be pulled off any other way short of the Anti-Christ presenting himself as one.
:puke:
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