Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

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fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

Mitch Matrixx wrote:
fbenario wrote:
burningame wrote:Shouldn’t we should consider the ramifications: the truly horrible notion that our very emotional sustenance, in the form of popular music, has been tampered with over the years?
fbenario wrote:Burningame, your whole post is excellent in every way, and the vast majority of it is obviously relevant and inarguable.

And yet. Music has enhanced my life in every conceivable way, while at no time making me more gullible or bloodthirsty, or making me more likely to take ANY established, mainstream, 'approved' view of anything at all. Music has pushed me to think for myself.

The sheer joy and wonder I feel when listening to Closer by Joy Division, or Entertainment by Gang Of Four, or any number of songs by The Jam/Clash/R.E.M./Neil Young/Bauhaus/VelvetUnderground/TheBand/Bowie/J.Lennon/TheWho/AliceInChains/RedHotChiliPeppers, and on and on, can't possibly be a malignant manipulation of me by TPTB. Where are the negative effects on me?
fbenario, [1] Would it not be the goal of the record giants to implant obvious, more harmless music out there to mix in with destructive, mind bending filth? Would the perps in charge of this century old psyop not be smart enough to blend the entire concoction together so that we do not taste the poison that rests at the bottom of the glass?
...
[2] Pop music, not pop as in cheese, but pop as in billboard top 100, and geared toward the masses. Every artist you have mentioned has been brought to us by big greedy companies with an agenda.
On your point [1], I've already conclusively commented.
Music has enhanced my life in every conceivable way, while at no time making me more gullible or bloodthirsty, or making me more likely to take ANY established, mainstream, 'approved' view of anything at all. Music has pushed me to think for myself.
You entirely failed to point out how I have been negatively manipulated.

On your point [2], you are absolutely wrong, including on bands I listed. R.E.M. began on a local Atlanta label, and didn't sign with a major until 7 years later - 3 years AFTER they were seen by many as America's best band.

Chili Peppers first album produced by Andy Gill of Gang Of Four - so they were NOT brought to our attention by a major label.

As a theory, your post sounds legitimate, but it fails in many specific examples.
burningame
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by burningame »

fbenario,

we both know that smaller labels are still perp-controlled and that the ‘tentacles’ reach deeply into the population; anything capable of being used, is being watched, and fed, albeit gradually. That’s the point. The musicians have to be kept under the thumb, and that means they are often on (relative) slave wages long after the fact, until their controllers can no longer disguise the huge dollars their puppets are rolling in. Then they’re signed on the ‘big’ label.

As far as a personal negative influence on your good character, no-one is suggesting that. Your very presence here and well-established credentials disqualifies you from being considered ‘vulnerable’, in any discernable way, to this programming; likewise the other esteemed members of the forum. We are concerned with the ‘people’, the vast masses, who are being denied proper education, and being inculcated at the same time.

A few things come to mind as we discuss the notion of how perp-controlled media, especially music, ‘gets in’. I think we must first say, we are talking about a sub-conscious process; nothing is so overt as to be consciously confronting to our sensibilities as per the current zeitgeist. As Mitch Matrixx posted above, it’s all about “the little bit of poison at the bottom of the glass [of wine – I put that in! :P ]”.

Secondly there is this angle: how would we know what we’re missing? We have all been brought up from the cradle bombarded by the perps definition of music. Just from a logical standpoint, I think the answer is found in Plato’s “the Cave” allegory -


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

I can’t help feeling that when it comes to music, and our education of what music is (and can be) - most of us are still in the cave, looking at the shadows.

***
I would like to see the recent posts concerning music above as a separate new thread.

I vote to move the posts related to music from here, beginning from this post of Fbenario’s:
http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 5#p2366312

with the sole exception of whatsgoingon’s post at:
http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 5#p2366361
[sorry, the exception of three posts of whatsgoingon, and one from reel.deal]

to a new thread called something like “How and Why the Perps have Short-changed Music and Art”.
(Hmm. Reminds me of when I was a kid. "The How and Why Wonder Book of...")

I would certainly like to add some further thoughts, and I have the feeling that others would like to weigh in. As I hinted in my previous post, I believe that our musical programming is so much more difficult to get a handle on than our visual programming re media fakery and 911, the Moon Landing. The latter is like pulling teeth; disillusion in one’s musical world is akin to having a limb removed. It’s surely as important as the visual programming side, if by its nature that much harder to define. It’s a big part of who we are. And if we find the stains of the perp-controlled music industry are all over that beloved music, we really should begin to question it.

Of course in discussing it, we have to be sensitive, and understand that to attack one’s musical tastes is to attack the very core of one’s being.

***
Last edited by burningame on Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
pov603
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by pov603 »

Whilst we are on the subject of 'Bands', some friends of mine in Dubai recently went to the concert at Nasimi Beach/Atlantis Hotel for Snow Patrol.
Apparently, the place was 'heaving' as it was overbooked and things started to get out of hand such that scuffles were breaking out.
One friend's friend was hit on the head by a full can of beer and she had to be carried out to the medical services.
Once they deemed she was ok, they advised her to go home, so as she had her car there they escorted her to make sure she wasn't concussed.
Anyway, my point is that she tried to call her other friends to let them know what had happened but could not get through as the system was 'down'.
It later transpired that this was done deliberately ie the 'closing down of the system' to stop people 'live streaming the show'.
Is this common?
I had not heard of it before and was amazed it is allowed especially under the circumstances ie injuries/losing people/children etc.
The obvious follow on is, if they can do this at a concert, well, ...
simonshack
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Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by simonshack »


**************************************************************************
(I have just made this new thread - and transferred the relevant posts from the Chatbox - as suggested by our member Burningame. Hope the title is ok with all. If not, let me know - simon)
lux
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by lux »

I think the thread title should be "Is music used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?"

Or, perhaps, "Is the music industry engaged in propaganda/mind control?"

To simply say "Music is a propaganda/mind-control tool" is akin to saying "Water is an instrument of torture."
MsQ
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by MsQ »

I would say yes to the thread question, though not always directly.
For example, nuclear disarmament featured high on the list of causes to fight for within the 80s punk movement. Almost every band had songs against nuclear weapons, nuclear power, and so on. (Of course, this wasn't limited to punk with quite a number of not so punk rock bands being involved in the cause. Many of us, inspired by music, attended demos and campaigned for various anti-nuclear groups. At the time I imagine most people thought the sources of information came from trustworthy suppliers. I can't recall anyone ever openly questioning where the information came from.
I recently viewed the Nuclear Hoax thread and Nuke Lies forum, then I went on to watch dozens of nuclear test explosion clips on youtube. How on earth masses of people believed those clips were real in the first place is hard to fathom now. We did though, and we formed opinions and movements around them. I am now reminded of this quote by Lenin. "“The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.”
I feel a bit cheated :huh:

On a different note...
pov603 wrote: Anyway, my point is that she tried to call her other friends to let them know what had happened but could not get through as the system was 'down'.
It later transpired that this was done deliberately ie the 'closing down of the system' to stop people 'live streaming the show'.
Is this common?
I had not heard of it before and was amazed it is allowed especially under the circumstances ie injuries/losing people/children etc.
The obvious follow on is, if they can do this at a concert, well, ...
This happened, and I imagine still happens, every year at some of the big music festivals here. It's supposedly due to having thousands of people suddenly in one place overloading the phone networks by all trying to use their phones at the same time :rolleyes: I think your explanation makes more sense. Though in fairness I guess phones never work well anywhere here around midnight on NYE...
I experienced the same phone "malfunctions" though around 7/7 in Brighton UK. From memory, it took about 2 days for messages to reach me asking if I was ok. One of my friends was frantic!
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

Mitch Matrixx wrote:I am of the opinion that music (being the timed and arranged structure of sounds) has a rather physiological effect on us.
I fucking LOVE the psychological effect music has on me!

Anyway, Burningame and MitchM, I agree with the vast majority of both your analyses on this issue, I just didn't like the apparent necessary implication that TPTB use music to negatively impact , and thus control, each one of us. (Face it, I'm the member who has most often mentioned how good, and how important, the Laurel Canyon series is, and how every member here should read it. As you know, one of its main conclusions is the perp ancestry of so many major US rock musicians, and their clear link with Hollywood and the National Security complex.)

I'll be damned if TPTB ever control my mind enough to get me to passively consent to their evil.

And, to end on a positive note, here's one of the greatest performances I've ever seen, righteous anger at its best! Peter Garrett is the most magnetic front-man I've ever seen, and the lyrics are unimpeachable. Notice the drummer standing right at the front.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGx59dm3XY
fbenario
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by fbenario »

lux wrote:I think the thread title should be "Is music used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?"

Or, perhaps, "Is the music industry engaged in propaganda/mind control?"

To simply say "Music is a propaganda/mind-control tool" is akin to saying "Water is an instrument of torture."
Totally agree. Please expand the title of this thread!
antipodean
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US Forces get the nod.

Unread post by antipodean »

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/ ... 06460.html

Peter Garret the fucking sell out, classic example of music used to manipulate.
US forces get the nod
February 16, 2007 - 10:00AM

Labor frontbencher Peter Garrett says he fully supports his party's endorsement of a new US military communications base planned for Western Australia.

The opposition spokesman for Climate Change, environment and the arts was lampooned yesterday after refusing to answer journalists' questions about the new unmanned base, approved after three years of secret negotiations between the US and Australian governments.

In his previous life as a rock star, Mr Garrett and his band Midnight Oil railed against US military might with songs such as US Forces, Hercules and When the Generals Talk.

Mr Garrett today said Labor had not received a briefing on the proposal at the time he was questioned by journalists.

"Subsequently, the defence spokesman (Joel Fitzgibbon) has made it clear that the Labor Party supports the joint facilities," Mr Garrett told reporters in Sydney today.

"I 100 per cent support the defence minister on that issue.

"I want to make it perfectly clear that when I joined the Labor Party I accepted and understood what the policy was for Australian joint facilities . . . and that is a policy I unreservedly accept."

Mr Garrett said the Howard government was simply attempting political mischief by mocking him in question time yesterday in the hope of turning the attention away from climate change.

He said his position on the US military had changed from when he protested outside the Pine Gap base near Alice Springs in the 1980s - developed by the Hawke Labor government.

"Twenty-five and thirty years ago, like a lot of other Australians I was involved in actions and activities across this country, of course you change your mind about some things over time, no one listening to this interview would expect otherwise, "Mr Garrett said.

"There would be members on both frontbenchers of the parliament, many people sitting in their bedrooms, in their lounge rooms, in the pub today who have views . . . which have evolved over time, mine have."

AAP

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFv2NEE-_c
Mickey
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by Mickey »

"One" by Metallica. Used to like this song until I discovered the music industry propaganda and this song is clearly a masterpiece for pseudo/fake "democracy" propaganda. With so much BS around us, I am starting to wonder how and what to teach my children and what tools to use. :unsure:
antipodean
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by antipodean »

Mickey wrote:"One" by Metallica. Used to like this song until I discovered the music industry propaganda and this song is clearly a masterpiece for pseudo/fake "democracy" propaganda. With so much BS around us, I am starting to wonder how and what to teach my children and what tools to use. :unsure:
Some of these sell out musicians probably did have good intentions & wrote good songs before selling out along the way.
In the case of Garrett I think he used his politically charged lyrics as a means of gaining a mass following for his music, such as the anti nuke movement etc.
burningame
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by burningame »

simonshack wrote:
…On the subject of the issues debated here (concerning the dark sides of "rock music"), I'd say that fbenario's views on this are closest to mine. I have never really felt 'mentally manipulated' by the vast amounts of bands I have listened to - and thoroughly enjoyed - in my lifetime…
and I had never truly felt 'mentally manipulated' by the media until I'd seen "September Clues".
fbenario wrote: I fucking LOVE the psychological effect music has on me!

Anyway, Burningame and MitchM, I agree with the vast majority of both your analyses on this issue, I just didn't like the apparent necessary implication that TPTB use music to negatively impact , and thus control, each one of us…

I'll be damned if TPTB ever control my mind enough to get me to passively consent to their evil.

And, to end on a positive note, here's one of the greatest performances I've ever seen, righteous anger at its best!
***
Here’s how I believe TPTB have been using music to negatively impact, and thus control, each one of us. Even - and especially - if we are completely unaware of it.

It is my contention that the whole concept of music, and art itself, seems to have altered its very meaning over the last fifty years. We have all been brought up since infancy - assuming this thing has been going on for since at least the early 50s – imbibing certain styles and attitudes inherent in the music we listen to. We have also imbibed the very fact that these things will and must change frequently – and along with these changes new paradigms are introduced like "kids aren’t meant to like their parents’ music". But is this change a natural thing, or has it been engineered?

Why is there such a gulf between what ‘real’ music is on the one hand, and popular music on the other? One sign or test of ‘real’ or what I call ‘pure’ music is that it can be translated to any instrument: play Bach on a kazoo (if you can!) and it’ll still work, because the melodic lines are rich and combine to form coherent phrases. Like having an intelligent conversation, the music asks questions and answers them - with no help at all from video, lyrics, or ‘righteous anger’...just crotchets and quavers. In the same way that mathematics is its own language devoid of human interference. We can wish and hope that 2+2=5, but mathematics (the universe) won't let it happen, unless we're in Room 101 with the rats.

But can one take this Midnight Oil track for example, and reduce it to its essentials – strip away the performance, the ‘righteous anger’, the video, the lyrics, the loud, amplified guitars and write down the actual music in it? Honestly, if you do so the ‘musical’ content therein will be seen to be infantile.

That is why I am so passionately against the word ‘music’ being used to describe the popular music of today: the work of bands like Midnight Oil or the Sex Pistols or just about anyone you care to name. Sure, we could always coin a new term for the modern cross-media popular music style (‘performance art’?), but that is just the point: to change the meaning of 'music' so that true music, in and of itself, is a complete unknown to most people. Indeed, the vast majority of people today know only this stunted concept of music. Nowadays they are used to music that has a ‘message’ – that is used to bring music down to human scale. What a tragedy. It’s the supreme dumbing-down of all time. That is manipulation of the essence of music – for music is universal and not limited by the stupid goings-on of human beings. Sure, it's made by human beings but its point is taking us away from the mundane, to the eternal, the universal. When music is used for greedy political motives it simply ceases to be music for its own sake. And that’s the problem. All popular music nowadays has an all-too-human agenda.
reel.deal
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by reel.deal »

art for arts sake! style over content! we can argue about this stuff forever! the loathsome anti-semite christian fundamentalist Ted Pike makes 'documentaries' that state the Zionists that created & control all Entertainment & Media industries have an anti-Christian agenda that promotes 'The Whore of Babylon' as the method to undermine & destroy Christianity. Pike reckons Zionists use Hollywood & Music as the conduit to promoting homosexuality and the mixing & dilution of the Christian 'races'. He calls jazz 'the devil's music' that got pushed specifically to undermine WASP supremacy. i just see it as the purest form of free expression made by supremely talented & gifted musicians.

back in the 60's, sure, Laurel Canyon was a hotbed for connected hippie drop-outs to form bands, and sure, their 'connectedness' helped push them to the top. but take Jimi Hendrix, the 1st ever act to take $100,000 for a nights performance, how 'illuminati' was he? i would say 'none'; a genuine 'discovery' made by chance by Animals bass-player Chas Chandler, looking to get into management, just passing through NYC; tipped off to check Jimmy James & The Blue Flames at the Cafe Wha? by Keith Richards' model girlfriend, Linda Keith - http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,625032
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuybTvLsLKw
The whole 'Hendrix Murdered' by 'shady' co-manager Mike Jeffreys 'for the insurance' thing is pure bullshit.


Sometimes artists do genuinely emerge through their own efforts, despite & in spite of 'commercial promotion/interests'. i've seen it myself with the band Black Grape, formed from the remnants of the 'Happy Mondays' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTFg8Z1Oetw i know the singer 'Veba', vocalist on the Rae & Christian leftfield hit 'Spellbound', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4TvlbCS ... re=related & sometime Groove Armada touring vocalist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsXSBGol ... re=related i know the incredible classically trained Chinese singer 'Seaming To', vocalist on Mr Scruff/Homelife/Herbaliser collaborative tracks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZXAdkrQhM0 i know this guy, ex Gorkys Zygotic Monkey guitarist... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCRBdkeK43g
Trust me, none of them are bankrolled by illuminati.

The UK fave visual artist Tracey Emin was my best mates mate on their Art Degree. He went to Turkey with her for a fortnight around that time. Although her semi-notoriety began as the girlfriend of the maverick musician/painter 'Billy Childish'; @ 5:35 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw9z6bmd1QI ...her rise to the top came all off her own back. she nearly flunked her art degree & so wouldnt have got the MA at the Royal College, and so would be unknown today, as opposed to one of the leading lights of the Contemporary Art market.
Commercial interests cannot always dictate who succeeds & who fails, its a myth... John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis... they grafted & became world class/peerless at their trade. thats something no spooks can control or create, illuminati puppets ? ...cream rises to the top,
THEN the money moves in. keep it real !
Euphoria
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Re: Is MUSIC a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by Euphoria »

I think the answer to the original post is simply 'Yes.' Obviously a lot of us remember these songs from our more innocent years so we don't necessarily see the connection when we look back, or feel in all honesty that we were affected so much.

Genuine 'finds' like Jimi Hendrix slotted in to the whole psychedelic theme of the time, effortlessly, so they joined the predominent culture without necessarily being crafted specifically for that purpose. Drug abuse is a common theme of a lot of songs from the 60s/70s era and onwards.

I think music also helps a lot with the standardisation of culture. It creates subcultures, like punks, hippies, disco bunnies (or the 'Disco Sucks' movement), New Age, goths, that can keep people occupied from the age of about 10 to 35. It makes you feel connected to a source, to a network that doesn't really exist. It plays its role in democracy as a scientific dictatorship.
reel.deal wrote:The UK fave visual artist Tracey Emin was my best mates mate on their Art Degree. He went to Turkey with her for a fortnight around that time. Although her semi-notoriety began as the girlfriend of the maverick musician/painter 'Billy Childish'; @ 5:35 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw9z6bmd1QI ...her rise to the top came all off her own back. she nearly flunked her art degree & so wouldnt have got the MA at the Royal College, and so would be unknown today, as opposed to one of the leading lights of the Contemporary Art market.
These people know what side their bread is buttered on, though. Would Damien Hirst, Emin, or Banksy, have enjoyed such great success if they were into fine art?
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread post by reel.deal »

well, i dunno about being a 'mind-controlled' 'consumer' of musical 'product', but i do know, personally,
that the performers i mentioned arent averse to a little indulgence in 'mind-altering' 'activities', every
now & then...


Image

:P
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