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simonshack
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:43 pm

Selene wrote:
89 % of my Jewish family has been wiped out, according to the historical documents in Auschwitz and Sobibor.
Wow, 89% ?

Mathematically speaking, that means that you are part of the 11% of survivors, Selene! Good on you !

Selene
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Selene » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:46 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:With all due and earnest respect, did you know these people that existed before they became statistics? I would like to go about asking questions of Jewish families in a respectful way and I mean no offense. However, this does seem to be an important part of the story. Gravestones. Books. Anything else that stands out to you as proof?
My great-grandparents and my grandpas sister (he had just one, no inflated 10 siblings or so...) all died while my grandfather survived. He was clearly traumatized by the war.

It's hard to be the great-grandchild of a vicsim, wouldn't you agree?

Gravestones in extermination camps? Or back home? After the devastating effect of the war and the real horror which was only discovered by digging into archives many years later?

simonshack wrote:
Selene wrote:
89 % of my Jewish family has been wiped out, according to the historical documents in Auschwitz and Sobibor.
Wow, 89% ?

Mathematically speaking, that means that you are part of the 11% of survivors, Selene! Good on you !
No, I am not in that figure. It is 89% of all family members of the jewish bloodline of my grandfather. Of those people, only 10.3 % survived...

I went back to the great-grandparents of my surviving jewish grandfather and of all the family members that I could find (still incomplete when compared with the non-jewish control group also in my family)
89% died in the camps, the vast majority in the mentioned two.

simonshack
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:53 pm

Selene wrote:
My great-grandparents and my grandpas sister (he had just one, no inflated 10 siblings or so...) all died while my grandfather survived. He was clearly traumatized by the war.

It's hard to be the great-grandchild of a vicsim, wouldn't you agree?

Gravestones in extermination camps? Or back home? After the devastating effect of the war and the real horror which was only discovered by digging into archives many years later?
selene wrote: Of those people, only 10.3 % survived...
Wow - 10.3% ? Is that counting stray limbs and all?

Well, Selene - if the above few lines are all you have to offer regarding your alleged personal family history, I think you are full of shit.

Bye now.

omaxsteve
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by omaxsteve » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:20 pm

simonshack wrote:
Seneca wrote:
He probably presumed that you meant by "ANY group which he/she perceived to be behind the ENTIRE corrupt banking system" all the jews and not the JPM's. Which was clear for me.

I feel that omaxasteve is by far the most prejudiced on this topic. Maybe you can talk this out with each other on skype.
Well, it was clear for you - but it seems it wasn't clear for omaxsteve.

See, omaxsteve probably needs to learn how to read - and to properly process / interpret / assimilate what he reads. Education.

I will gladly talk this out over Skype. My skype username is simon.shack.

Omaxsteve? Wanna talk?
I'd be happy to talk with you anytime Simon, but unfortunately I do not have microphone and speakers available on my pc right now. In the mean time please accept my most sincere apology , I obviously misread/mis- understood the wording of your "any normal people with average intelligence......." statement as Seneca pointed out. It seems like I got my knickers in a knot for no good reason. I also apologize to everyone else who was subjected to this back and forth argument when it seems there was nothing contentious to bicker about.


I will answer your question concerning the law(s) disallowing the questioning of the Holocaust in more detail later when time permits, as I believe I have an interesting perspective to add due to my heritage. For now, I will say that I believe that anyone should have the right to openly question anything they want. The only restriction, and one that I believe is in place in many countries around the world is the law against "inciting hatred " against an identifiable group. (Just to be clear by group I mean the entire group)

regards,

Steve O.

simonshack
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:26 pm

omaxsteve wrote: I will answer your question concerning the law(s) disallowing the questioning of the Holocaust in more detail later when time permits, as I believe I have an interesting perspective to add due to my heritage. For now, I will say that I believe that anyone should have the right to openly question anything they want.
That's quite an encouraging statement of yours, omaxsteve. I look forward to speaking with you.

Surely, you must hate the laws which the JPM's have made over here in Europe - threatening to throw in jail anyone questioning the Oh-locust?

Well - "hate" is such a silly word, isn't it? Let us always call it "opposed opinion".

hoi.polloi
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:44 pm

Hmm, if Selene was legit, shouldn't it have been a simple matter of locating the names and showing direct relationship to a lineage? Continuing to quote statistics as they did, it sounds like it's something they aren't willing to question. If that's the case, the propaganda did its job, and he's pretty comfortable in a country with one of the greatest propaganda achievements of all time — the dubious Anne Frank house!

It is well known that Jewish people erected tons of pseudo-graves and other memorial stones outside of Germany, to commemorate those lost in the war, ostensibly the holocaust. The fact that Selene acts ignorant of this and resorts immediately to sarcasm indicates they didn't have the intellectual capacity to ask questions of their family.
Headstones at a Jewish cemetery in Ukraine and a Holocaust memorial monument in Hungary were destroyed in suspected anti-Semitic vandalism.

[...]

Unidentified individuals smashed 19 headstones at the cemetery sometime between July 28 and August 1, according to police, who urged anyone with information on the incident to assist with their investigation.

[...]

The monument, located at a central park on Dob Street, was placed there in 2004.
Why so late as 2004?
Nyiregyhaza had a Jewish population of 5,000 in 1944, when local fascists and Nazis began deporting the country’s Jews to the Auschwitz extermination camp. Deportations began in May and ran through the beginning of June. Survivors are estimated at 600 to 800, according to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
The United States continuing to do what it does best, I suppose. :rolleyes:
In 2012, the Council of Europe adopted a non-binding resolution placing responsibility for the care of Jewish cemeteries on national governments. The resolution was based in part on a report that said Jewish cemeteries are “probably” more vulnerable because of the small size of the communities.
Oh?
In addition to dozens of cemeteries vandalized in recent years, the report also noted instances of cemeteries in Eastern Europe that have been turned into “residential areas, public gardens, leisure parks, army grounds and storage sites; some have been turned into lakes.”
Where are the families to take care of such sites?

-http://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-je ... t-smashed/

arc300
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by arc300 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:45 pm

hoi.polloi wrote: shouldn't we be asking ourselves how the multiple non-Jew powers in the world decided to give this sick European power to them? Are we to believe that the Power Maniacs of the world are all simply "fooled" by the Holo-hoax? It seems to me to be some sort of trade deal, and each PM group has its agreed-upon place in a push-pull for greater control.
This is the exact question that I asked myself when I realised that the accepted holocaust narrative is such a painfully obvious lie. There is no way that any PM could NOT know that it is a lie. Therefore, we have to ask ourselves whether there is, in fact, "multiple powers" in this world, jew or otherwise. My own personal feeling at this stage is that, yes, there probably are semi-competing factions but their energies would all seem to be directed toward the same goal: to enslave and exploit the, er, hoi polloi, which means that, in effect, there is only one power.

hoi.polloi
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:29 pm

arc300 wrote:
hoi.polloi wrote: shouldn't we be asking ourselves how the multiple non-Jew powers in the world decided to give this sick European power to them? Are we to believe that the Power Maniacs of the world are all simply "fooled" by the Holo-hoax? It seems to me to be some sort of trade deal, and each PM group has its agreed-upon place in a push-pull for greater control.
This is the exact question that I asked myself when I realised that the accepted holocaust narrative is such a painfully obvious lie. There is no way that any PM could NOT know that it is a lie. Therefore, we have to ask ourselves whether there is, in fact, "multiple powers" in this world, jew or otherwise. My own personal feeling at this stage is that, yes, there probably are semi-competing factions but their energies would all seem to be directed toward the same goal: to enslave and exploit the, er, hoi polloi, which means that, in effect, there is only one power.
I agree, and I think that "one power" could be determined through this thread's research because the Jewish rotten core has mistakenly been too brazen and arrogant with the handling of their piece, and because of its example to the other world nutcases in the present form of propaganda we uncover daily here, it may reveal similar "fault lines" in the mosaic of that "one [maniacal] power" (The OMP?). There is a chance, however optimistic, that this thread — combined with a few others about the "deal" between JPM, Jesuits, Masons, as-yet-unnamed groups/meetings/rituals connecting the fake cores of the world Religions and other groups — could unravel all of these nasty empires, and it may be a blessing to the world if it does — as long as we retain our poise and can demonstrate maturity to survive without their so-called "benefits" which will be a personal challenge to all of us to get along with one another.

With that optimism, I will touch back on the "hoi polloi" topic soon, since my present research draws us back to a technology of ancient Greece being exploited by the speculative "one power" and used heavily by the JPM in the expansion of Israel. This will be for another thread, though. If I find out more about Jewish Mafia it will go here. I can definitely do a simplistic compilation of Jews involved in the African slave trade. I feel those are tangential to the anatomy of the Power Maniacs, and I still think it's valuable to use the names given to us (Rothschilds and Rockefellers and Vanderbilts and Windsors and so forth) under the same principle that if a criminal is claiming to do something (or at least not disavowing) as blatantly as they, it's worth investigating their role in that motive.

I chose the name "hoi polloi" on a humorous whim, but it's turning out to be kind of an apt handle for this kind of research. More soon.

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by brianv » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:57 pm

"hoi polloi", kinda one of the best handles on the internets. Sorry to interject, I've only paid this thread cursory attention.

The definition that I might best ascribe to it - "The Unwashed Public" or "Your Everyday Commoner", some might say "Riff-Raff". I didn't know it went back to the Greeks. I thought it was a London thing!

Flabbergasted
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:25 am

jumpy64 wrote:I feel challenged both by its length and its format [...] could you please point me more exactly to the section that deals with the positive, religious understanding of being a "chosen people"?
Heavens, how hard is it to find an entire section intitled "The Chosen People" (pp. 17-18) in a document consisting of 20 page-scans in coffee table book format?
jumpy64 wrote:I also found Huston Smith's biography a bit questionable...
I am fully aware of the usual damning connections attributed to the author, and I am myself quite apprehensive about his championing of entheogens during part of his life, but sometimes it's wise to defer character judgments and allow yourself an open-minded first-hand impression of a writer's mind and style.

Critical Mass
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Critical Mass » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:04 am

When most people use the term 'Holohoax' they are usually describing several things...

(i) No homicidal gas chambers (this has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to me)
(ii) No six million dead (that number, incredibly, started popping up during WW1)
(iii) No extermination plan
(iv) Absurd propaganda stories... people surviving multiple gassing, six year old girls beating SS guards in hand to hand combat, nuclear bombs used on Jewish villages, Jews killed with electrical skull crushing machines. Funerals for bars of soap. There are so many insane stories it truly beggars belief.
(v) Media fakery... especially of photo's & "eyewitness" accounts.



However there is no doubt that Jews & others were rounded up & put in concentration camps*.

In addition it is well known that concentration camp conditions often turn horrible... quickly off the top of my head I can think of British camps in South Africa, Spanish camps in Cuba & the US's camps in the Philippines.

All were horrific crimes against humanity... yet nobody claims the British were trying to "exterminate all Afrikaner" or the US were trying to wipe out "every last Fillipino".

Worse it is known that camps become even more horrendous when a nation loses a war. There are many shocking images from Confederate camps at then end of the US Civil war... yet again nobody claims the Confederates were trying to "exterminate the North".

Combine all this with the fact many Jews were involved with communist groups & that WW2 rendered most of Europe as a diseased, starving, burned-out blood bath... then yes lots of Jews died in WW2.

However... can you really know all of this supposed "89%" were killed by the National Socialists?

The Iron curtain went up almost immediately after the war whilst large numbers of Jews started turning up in the Middle East. Populations were also being moved & shuffled around all over Eastern & Central Europe. Were none of your family killed by the Red Army or by Allied fighter bombers shooting up anything that moved? None ended up living elsewhere & were simply out of reach (whilst likely ending up telling their friends that they lost 89% of their family)?

Either way it seems a considerable number of Jews survived the war. Israel was claiming there were over 1 million survivors in 2004.... sixty years after the event!
At the beginning of 2004, 1,092,000 Holocaust survivors were still living worldwide, about half of them in Israel. About 10 percent of survivors die each year, the report said.
* Initially all German concentration camps were described as death/extermination camps... however that is no longer the case (despite this you often here veterans say they "know the Holocaust happened" because they "liberated the camps"). Nowadays the camps in the West are accepted to have been concentration camps & it's only the camps in the East (all of which just so happened to end up behind the Iron Curtain) which are now claimed to have been the extermination camps.

arc300
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by arc300 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:07 am

@Selene
In order to discuss the holocaust and to make any conclusion about whether it actually happened or not, we first need to define the term holocaust.
The term "holocaust" does not and CAN NOT merely mean "some bad shit happened to some jews during WW2". Surely, that would negate the specialness of the alleged event, and it would certainly negate the need for a special name for it and for the special financial "compensation"available to its alleged jewish victims.

I propose a definition of the term "holocaust". This is inspired by/paraphrased from something I read many years ago, I can't remember where. It was possibly Irving, but who cares? The definition either stands or falls on its own merits:

The holocaust is:

1. The murder of at least 11 Million innocent people
2. 6 Million of whom were jews
3. Performed in an "industrial" manner
4. Mainly by gassing
5. By an insane militarized ruling political group called "the Nazis"
6. With either Zyklon B or Carbon Monoxide from diesel engines
7. The six Million jews were murdered simply because of their religion
8. The other 5 Million non-jews were murdered because ... who gives a fuck? How many people even KNOW about the other 5 million?
9. The bodies of these 11 Million people were so well disposed-of that only the remains of some "thousands" have ever been found
10. And it was all done so secretly that nobody noticed until the American military made post-hoc newsreels about it.

I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there because I think a definition should, by definition, be as uncontroversial as possible, and I think I've let myself down a bit with Number 8. But at least it's a start; if we are to proceed scientifically, we must at least first agree on a definition of terms. Right?

arc300
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by arc300 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:30 pm

Actually, if we are to proceed scientifically on ANY topic, I think it would be useful to identify parts of the claim that could also function as a "smoke test" or "sanity test".

"Both sanity tests and smoke tests are ways to avoid wasting time and effort by quickly determining whether an application is too flawed to merit any rigorous testing." source: http://www.guru99.com/smoke-sanity-testing.html

The claims we discuss on this forum are normally narratives and a narrative is analogous to a system. If any critical component of the narrative is faulty, our narrative fails. As soon as we identify a faulty critical component, we know we can stop wasting our precious time continuing to test said narrative.

Personally, (thanks to Simon's work) my own smoke test in regards to the 9/11 narrative is the fact that aluminium can not cut through hardened steel and concrete. The smoke test identified this faulty component to me, allowing me to see the entire narrative for the worthless bullshit that it is. No more need to waste my time reading excrement about thermite, pods, space weapons, Dick Cheney in the bunker, etc etc.

I realise that the 9/11 "aluminium vs hardened steel" smoke test is very clear-cut, self contained and irrefutable and that only a moron would continue testing or discussing such a narrative, whereas it is more difficult to pin down (in the mind of an innocent listener) the faulty components of such a wide-ranging, multi-faceted, durative, amorphous and ill-defined narrative as that of the holocaust, if only because to do so would render one a dirty, heartless anti-semite who should, and really COULD, be sent to a prison or asylum.

So, what is a smoke test for the faultiness of the holocaust narrative? Off the top of my head the two strongest contenders would be either:

1. The FACT that you can be imprisoned for not believing the narrative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OR,
2. The claim that 11 (ELEVEN!!!!) MILLION people disappeared off the face of this earth, leaving nothing but a pile of a few hundred shoes.

Any other suggestions?

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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:59 pm

arc300 wrote:Any other suggestions?
I could put together a veeeery long list of Holocaust narrative smoke tests for you, but one that is somewhat analogous to the aluminium wing vs. reinforced steel column argument is the physical impossibility of conducting executions by gas in any of the facilities designed and/or built prior to 1945 by German-hired prison camp engineers.

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:19 pm

simonshack wrote:LEXICON for newcomers to this forum: "APM"=American Power Maniacs - "AUSPM"= Australian Power Maniacs - "BPM"=British Power Maniacs - "CPM"= Canadian Power Maniacs - "DPM"= Danish Power Maniacs - "EPM"=European Power Maniacs - "FPM"= French Power Maniacs - "GPM" Greek Power Maniacs - "JPM"=Jewish Power Maniacs...
It´s diplomatic on your part to spread things out like that, but the terminology confounds "tribal affiliation" with nationality. For example, Zbigniew Brzezinski was born and raised in Warsaw, but classifying him as a "PPM" misses the entire point of the discussion.

Brzezinski is not "a Jewish Pole", but "a Polish Jew". Makes all the difference.

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