Egypt 'Revolution'- all the way to Libya 'War'

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda

Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby nonhocapito on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:35 pm

Yeah I said before I think this uprising is an "orange revolution", played by globalist forces abroad to force a change necessary for a number of reasons that do not necessarily include the welfare of the people.
This is why the first reaction of the regime has been to shut down the internet, too late since the networks had been built for months ahead and by then knew what they had to do.

What is the situation? 80% of the population of Egypt is made of people who are illiterate, and barely have enough to survive: for them these weeks going by with a country basically broke down are a bigger tragedy that any dictatorship, because they actually risk to starve. They are ideally for a change, of course, but right now they just want things back to normal, so that they can survive. Right there you can tell this is not going on strictly "for the people".

So I'm thinking the crowds of citizens who protest, who do not want "compromise", are part of elites who see themselves as the next oligarchs in some sense. But it is a complex scenario. The crowds of protesters are not united, some seem to be for an Islamic uprising, others for a western democracy etc.

[Here's an idea: what if the plan is to yes take over Egypt, but to turn it into an islamic-extremist nation ruled by local talebans (the "muslim brothers"), so that in the future, after a few terroristic events, the axis-of-good will have to go in and invade this country too?]

And let's not forget the totally fake Alexandria bombing of few weeks back: how not to see that that operation was in preparation of the "spontaneous" uprising that had to happen later on? To prepare the people to the idea that the current regime was inadequate to bring peace or unite the country?

That said, warriorhun, I don't think the comparison with Hungary or Romania really stands. So they behaved one way, and these are behaving another. Doesn't prove anything. We are talking about muslims who have been under authoritarian regimes longer than any communist country has ever been (centuries). Who knows what kind of energies and what kind of endurance they have been saving up? Know anything about Palestinians?

I still maintain that this energy is being used, manipulated, steered around like with the russian crowds protesting Yetsin in 1993. But this doesn't mean it is not authentic human energy, filled with authentic hopes, authentic rage.

As to the achievements of "peaceful" crowds vs. "rioting" crowds: it really depends on the historical moment. Right now, in my opinion, at least in richer countries it only serves the purpose of the regimes.
But generally speaking, you come from Hungary and the last partially-effective protest you have in your history I guess is 1956, a protest who could not be peaceful since Stalin decided to quell it with tanks.

I have different examples in mind. I come from Italy, a country like many other in Western Europe that have seen tremendous achievements gained by the people over the decades through peaceful protests. Things have not always been this still or this dull or this corrupted. Granted, the achievements were not eternal (what is?): what was conquered as basic rights for workers and women and students in the fifties and sixties has now been almost completely lost.

But let me tell you: the end for those conquests began pretty early, exactly when the marches started to be prepared thinking in advance about fighting police and destroying shops and later on with armed squads, guerrilla warfare, terrorism. This was the best way to lose the middle-class, which in fact decided this kind of change was not for them after all: and this is a proved, very effective, counteraction used by most democratic regimes. The middle-class have too much to lose, and destruction is not the way to win them. And you cannot have a decent society without the middle class, because they are the ones who keep society fluid --rather that frozen in castes.
Unless, of course, all is being prepared is just a putsch, like you mentioned. But who wants that? Do you?
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Postby simonshack on Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:40 am

Oh dear...

The overnite-sensation, American-bred revolutionary hero - (and Google executive):
WAEL GHONIM:
Image

Wicked Pedia tells us that:
"He became an international figure and energized pro-democracy demonstrations in Egypt after his emotional interview following 11 days of secret incarceration by Egyptian police." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Ghonim

The power of tears
(apparently, Mr. Ghonim became famous after weeping on TV) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElWoI5AW0_Q

Here he goes weeping again (at 3min42sec): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8Vi6CaCCM
And WATCH THE TEARS ON HIS CHEEK disappearing at 4:46 ! :blink:

I don't know about you, folks - but I smell a very stinky rat. And I have an inkling as to which sewer this stench is oozing from.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:46 am

Dear nonhocapito,

you say
80% of the population of Egypt is made of people who are illiterate, and barely have enough to survive... So I'm thinking the crowds of citizens who protest, who do not want "compromise", are part of elites who see themselves as the next oligarchs in some sense.

Agreed. I think the average milions of fellahs living in mud huts have no Internet access, let alone Facebook accounts to be organized with.
you say:
[Here's an idea: what if the plan is to yes take over Egypt, but to turn it into an islamic-extremist nation ruled by local talebans (the "muslim brothers"), so that in the future, after a few terroristic events, the axis-of-good will have to go in and invade this country too?]

I think both a western type "democracy" or an islamist state can have value to the powers that be. But I guess, if the people were really democratically asked, they would vote on islam. ;)
you say:
That said, warriorhun, I don't think the comparison with Hungary or Romania really stands.

I used Hungary as an opposite example, yes. But Romania does, in a sense: it started with protesting crowds getting shot at, continued with the Iliescu putsch (let us wait what the Egyptian army will do, if they go over to the democratic revolution), and the Media playing a decisive rule in the Roman revolution.
you say:
But generally speaking, you come from Hungary and the last partially-effective protest you have in your history I guess is 1956

I participated in the violent riots of 2006, when Gyurcsány the prime minister said: "There will be (peaceful) protests, there will be. They will get bored and go home."
So we started up a little '56, it had no direct results back then, but now, Hungary seems to be on a nationalist route.

As a middle class man myself, the last thing I want is a civil war in my country.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby Mercurial on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:27 pm

Amazing scenes in Egypt - Mubarak's gone - wow! :D

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby hoi.polloi on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:51 pm

Wait, but is he 'gone' or is he 'back'? Which is it? Will they make up their minds? :D
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby brianv on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Where can he run to?

Who will have him? The Egyptians want to put him on trial!! If he goes to the USA for instance, they wont be able to release him for reasons of "national security", he will have the dirt on everyone!! So what then? It's possible that the Egyptians could reciprocate by shutting the Suez Canal to the USA. The "entity" gets 40% of it's oil from Egyptian pipes too!

Interesting to hear an Egyptian writer and commentator say, when asked "Where now for Egypt? Her reply was, "The people want a non-political technocratic government!!".

Prince of Clowns Obama is about to speak!
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby Heiwa on Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:55 pm

Mubarak is welcome to France. Mitterrand 1981+ spent many vaccations in Egypt. I look fwd to the developments.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:36 pm

Dear All,

nonhocapito said
And let's not forget the totally fake Alexandria bombing of few weeks back: how not to see that that operation was in preparation of the "spontaneous" uprising that had to happen later on? To prepare the people to the idea that the current regime was inadequate to bring peace or unite the country?


He was spot on! (in my earlier posts, when I referred to "Cairo bombing", it should read "Alexandria bombing", sorry, my mistake)
Confirmation of the importance of Alexandria bombing from the mouth of the "Thomas Jefferson of Egypt", Facebook provocateur Asmaa Mahfouz, her picture:
Image
quote from here: http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4966.htm
Following the Alexandria terror attack, we saw that there was dereliction of security. The police oppress demonstrators under the pretext of protecting the country, but we have seen that there is no security. Every so often, there is a terror attack, and people are killed – in Upper Egypt, in Cairo, in Alexandria, and elsewhere.

So, we are just a few weeks after the Alexandria bombing, muslims bombing a kopt christian church, which the whole Egyptian population believed has really happened: what is wrong with the following picture from Tahrir Square (other than those hands)?:
Image
Koran and Cross??? Either the kopt christians take forgiving the sinners very literally, or the muslims just realised they have to get along peacefully with all the "Peoples of the Books". Maybe a certain other religious minority should join them on Tahrir Square without fear...
The perps just could not leave out the Multicultural angle, could they? People of different religions bury their age-old enmity to face the evil despot peacefully? A Multikulti dream come true!

Important quote from Asmaa Mahfouz, on my "Crescent of Arabic Democracy"-plan theory, that they planned on arabic dictatorship crowds copy-catting what is projected to them on Media from the previously revolting countries, especially Tunisia, and that Mossad agent provocateurs are working on organising:
When they saw what happened in Tunisia, the people realized that there was an Arab people that revolted and demanded its rights. Following these events, we began to tell people that we must take action, that we must revolt and demand our rights. People began to set fire to themselves, one after the other

(Her quotes are from the same article, here: http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4966.htm )

So I think I just have had confirmation of my theory from one of the perps. B)

Update: everything is happening with the same script as the 1989 Romanian revolution/putsch. Full live Media coverage including fakery, big crowds protesting peacefully, the army shooting on the people then turning to the revolution's side (example: General Sandulescu who ordered to shoot on the crowd, then got a free get-out-of-jail card from the democratic revolution, and years later they nearly erected his statue in Temesvár), the second line of the ruling party are becoming the democratic new leadership, no leaders who emerge from the middle of the protesting masses get positions in the new regime (example: anyone remembers Ioan Savi of Temesvár, who gave a hard time to Dascalescu, Ceausescu's Prime Minister? I guess not.) Dictator flees after speech, the difference is Ceausescu got shot, while rumour has it that Mubarak is dying from cancer, that is why he is playing along (so Media can project the "victorious revolution, dictator toppled" images for the benefit of the next targeted country's people, let's say Syria), so do not worry, the thankful perps will supply him with a safe exile for his remaining time on Earth.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby Guerrero on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am

I just feel the need to correct some glaring errors being posted here.

Egypt is NOT 80% illiterate. Where did the poster get that "fact" from? Source much?

I feel like that "fact" posted represents how way too many americans view the middle east - as a bunch of backwards illterates that don't know no better. :rolleyes:

When in fact, Egypt has a population of 90 million. The majority of the population is obviously in the urban centers ie Cairo (20 million, I believe) and Alexandria (10 to 12 million). Egypt was at the top of its game just 80 some years ago - when they had a large middle class, thriving industry, and also thriving socialism under King Faruk. Then came the military coup (God only knows who was behind that one :blink: ) under Nassr which led to Sadat which led to Mubarak - who had the longest reign at 30 years and who did the best job at destroying the countries industry and its middle class. However, inspite of that, they are still a very literate populace. Way more literate the the United States of REtards. 65% of that 90 million are under the age of 30. There - University education is free. However, you have to test well in high school in order to get options of where you can go/what field of study/what line of work - if you don't test so well, maybe you just get sent to the police force. Irregardless, they have public education there and that public education most certainly reaches all of the population in the urban centers - I am not as certain about what happens in the rural areas. In public education there, they learn English and Arabic and World History and World Geography. Trust me when I tell you that these folks, irregardless of their socioeconomic status, know HELLA more about world history, including american history (their knowledge of american history and politics puts the american education system to shame) and hella more about geography and geopolitics than most americans who even have a basic college education know.

So I hope with this newfound knowledge of the REAL egypt, not the one made up of stereotypes and illconceived fantasies, you will rethink what may or may not be happening in this country. Peace. B)
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby nonhocapito on Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:40 am

Guerrero wrote:Egypt is NOT 80% illiterate. Where did the poster get that "fact" from? Source much?


hmm, I took this from a blog of an egyptian guy that lives in italy (looking for the source, will post later). I stand corrected if the number is so way off. Anyway I think it remains the fact that Egypt is a very poor country.
For the rest I certainly am not an expert, but it doesn't seem that you post contradicts the substance of what has been said so far (that this revolt could be still the product of foreign infiltration, even though the people is honestly fighting for change).
If it will turn out that this is an honest transformation, and that the people alone have defeated a dictator, i will be very happy. Although, it remains to be explained the Alexandria bombing, and the role it had in this story. Because the bombing appears to be fake... the story gets dirty, no?
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:56 am

Dear nonhocapito,

you say:
Although, it remains to be explained the Alexandria bombing, and the role it had in this story. Because the bombing appears to be fake... the story gets dirty, no?

I think the quote from Asmaa Mahfouz in my previous post pretty much clears the picture on the Alexandria bombing. What do you think?

Dear Guerrero,

The 80% illiterate fellahs living in mud huts was what we call poetic exaggeration to ram home a point. Of course the Egyptians are cool.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:43 pm

Dear All,

Folks, I just caught the "nose-out fiasco of Egypt revolution" watching CNN live from Tahrir Square on TV (I could not resist watching the damned machine).
There were two live pictures, one CGI-suspicious, the other seemed fine.
One live feed showed Egyptian military personnel fucking about in uniform and helmets on Tahrir Square, one troop running in formation to somewhere.
The CNN correspondent came on live, saying: "Here I am standing on Tharir Square. The military simply disappeared from the streets, not a single soldier is in sight on Tahrir Square!!!"
Black-out of the live feed showing soldiers, then live feed replaced with a new one showing civilian crowd!
I will try to search the net if there is a video up on this (it happened like, 10-15 minutes ago, and I was watching in Hungary on TV, but I am not sure how I may find it on the net if it is uploaded. Take my word on it so far: it happened, saw with my own two eyes live on TV.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby hoi.polloi on Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:35 pm

Unfortunately, it is impossible to take just anyone's word on anything these days.

I don't consider you entirely 'just anyone' though, if it's any consolation.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:39 pm

Dear hoi.polloi,

you say:
Unfortunately, it is impossible to take just anyone's word on anything these days.

I say: But of course, that is just fair enough.
Please treat my previous comment as hearsay, or un-proven rumour, unless I find any links.
(If anyone comes across that video by chance, please warn me. It was some time after a Egypt military top man in green fatigue announced something, his last sentence was like "The police is for serving the people" or something to that effect. It happened in the next max. 10-20 minutes if memory serves me right.) I will busily search the net for it.
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Re: Egypt Revolution

Postby warriorhun on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:41 pm

Dear hoi.polloi and All,

Okay, this is the video:http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/02/12/exp.nr.tahrir.square.arrests.cnn
What do you think?
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