OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011

[Byfroken]

Show them where they died??!!

As Fred pointed out several days ago, they didn't even have chalk outlines, police tape, or took names at the scene of where each victim 'died', did they? Crikey they were counting them like1, 3, 7, 12,13, 18...

Yes, most of the people who lose their loved ones needs as most facts as possible. They also need to see where it happened, and know as much information as possible about what happened. That is the same with nearly all Next of Kin - no matter how their loved ones die. Its normal reaction, and according to psycologists its neccecary to be able to handle the grief and to get on with their life eventually.

because of all the interviews of all the ones that survived, they had a lot of information about what happened and where. They also had pictures to use when trying to figure who was where when their identity was known for the police. That is why they could show the next of kin what and where it happened.

There is no need with police tape since it is on an island and no one is permittet to visit the island now until tomorrow. I am not sure everyone will be allowed to visit the island after tomorrow either, but the police is releasing the island tomorrow (according to the TV2 new today). They have done their investigation and the island will again be available for the owners.

Byfroken

[Makkonen]

Yes, the police, psychologists and Red Cross was there to show eveyone where their loved ones died and answer all the questions about what happened and help the ones that need to talk about etc. The police, psychologists and Red Cross was also there when the survivors was back on Saturday to answer all the questions and help the ones that needed it.

Byfroken

How and where was your human source's dead relative killed at Utøya? Did Anders use exploding bullets to kill this person?

And again, no website links as answers.

[Byfroken]

Yes, the police, psychologists and Red Cross was there to show eveyone where their loved ones died and answer all the questions about what happened and help the ones that need to talk about etc. The police, psychologists and Red Cross was also there when the survivors was back on Saturday to answer all the questions and help the ones that needed it.

Byfroken

How and where was your human source's dead relative killed at Utøya? Did Anders use exploding bullets to kill this person?

And again, no website links as answers.

Hi,

My friends son who I have been refering to is one of the survivors.
As far as the information from the doctors at the hospital, Breivik used bullets that spread inside of the body as you say, yes. Dumdum-bullets is a word for it, I think - if I remember correctly without checking.

Byfroken

[Makkonen]

Hi,

My friends son who I have been refering to is one of the survivors.
As far as the information from the doctors at the hospital, Breivik used bullets that spread inside of the body as you say, yes. Dumdum-bullets is a word for it, I think - if I remember correctly without checking.

Byfroken

Who were the doctors? Was Colin Poole one of them?

BTW does your source know some names that died for sure at Utøya?

[Byfroken]

Hi,

My friends son who I have been refering to is one of the survivors.
As far as the information from the doctors at the hospital, Breivik used bullets that spread inside of the body as you say, yes. Dumdum-bullets is a word for it, I think - if I remember correctly without checking.

Byfroken

Who were the doctors? Was Colin Poole one of them?

BTW does your source know some names that died for sure at Utøya?

Who were the doctors?
The doctors working at the emergency-room at Ullevål sykehus where the hardest wounded were brought.

About your second question:
He knows a lot of them. He was one of the ones that organized the AUF- gathering on Utøya, and a member of AUF headoffice/group.
One name is Tore Eikeland who I know he visited last time he was at the westcoast of Norway where Tore lived (Osterøy just outside of Bergen). Tore was the leader or AUF Hordaland, and I had the pleasure of meeting him last winter.

Byfroken

[traumabasedmindcontr]

Ok, are you ready for what must be the strangest peice of information posted on this thread, to date?? ... We've already met Utøya-survivor Ali Esbati:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfedBcXX7Vk


... on his Facebook-page, July 23:rd, at 19:23 hours, Esbati contemplates on what happened on Utøya shortly after "Anders Behring Breivik" was apprehended (and now you need to know the following: Esbati was raised in Sweden and only moved to Norway as a grown man. For this reason he makes the odd mistake, substituting norwegian words for swedish words, with sometimes comic results. The norwegian and swedish languages are closely related, but not identical). ... So, this is - verbatim - what Esbati writes in the swedish (followed by my translation):


https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php ... 80&sk=wall

Mitt i allt ofattbart vansinne på Utøya – en comic relief situation efter att vi blivit upptäckta av polisen. Två barn (9-11) som var med i den lilla grupp jag stod med frös och var rädda. Jag skulle be polisen om att ge oss filtar(sv.)/tepper(no.). Ropade trött och språkförvirrat: ”Vi trenger FILTER til barna!”. Resultat: skratt från både stora och små norrmän.

den 23 juli kl. 19:23


In the middle of the unimaginable madness on Utøya - a moment of comic relief after the police dicovered us. Two children (ages nine and eleven) who were in my little group were frozen and tired. I was going to ask the police to give us blankets (= "filtar" in swedish; "tepper" in norwegain). (I) called out, tired and confused about my languages: "We need FILTERS for the children!". Result: laughters from both big and small norewegians.

July 23, 19:23 hours


... Are we having fun yet?? Surely there's nothing like a little comic relief to round off a mass murder!??
- And I know, I know: In the original, he DOES write: "Två barn (9-11)" (Two children (9-11)!!!! Go figure!!!!!


Your turn!!

[brianv]

Please ask the son of your friends to contact me via skype.
My skype username is : "simon.shack"

I speak fluent Norwegian.

Hi Simon,

I understand that you would like to talk to someone that are direct involved, but he is in sorrow losing several of his friends, and feel I can not ask him this. You are a total stranger.... You guess you understand this.

Byfroken

Sorry to interject but, just a moment ago you said "everyone was now happy that the funuruls(sic) were over!" Which is it?

[Byfroken]

One question for you...
Do you know what word "filter" can sound like when not talking 100% correct/clear norwegian?

Byfroken

[traumabasedmindcontr]

One question for you...
Do you know what word "filter" can sound like when not talking 100% correct/clear norwegian?

Byfroken

PLEASE tell me you're joking??

[Byfroken]

Please ask the son of your friends to contact me via skype.
My skype username is : "simon.shack"

I speak fluent Norwegian.

Hi Simon,

I understand that you would like to talk to someone that are direct involved, but he is in sorrow losing several of his friends, and feel I can not ask him this. You are a total stranger.... You guess you understand this.

Byfroken

Sorry to interject but, just a moment ago you said "everyone was now happy that the funuruls(sic) were over!" Which is it?

Yes....
And I dont want to ask him to contact a total stranger at skype in the grief period he is in now. It is hard enough for the invovled, and to meet people who doubt it even happened I believe would be way to hard (I would at least fell so if I were one of them).

Byfroken

[Byfroken]

Ok, are you ready for what must be the strangest peice of information posted on this thread, to date?? ... We've already met Utøya-survivor Ali Esbati:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfedBcXX7Vk


... on his Facebook-page, July 23:rd, at 19:23 hours, Esbati contemplates on what happened on Utøya shortly after "Anders Behring Breivik" was apprehended (and now you need to know the following: Esbati was raised in Sweden and only moved to Norway as a grown man. For this reason he makes the odd mistake, substituting norwegian words for swedish words, with sometimes comic results. The norwegian and swedish languages are closely related, but not identical). ... So, this is - verbatim - what Esbati writes in the swedish (followed by my translation):


https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php ... 80&sk=wall

Mitt i allt ofattbart vansinne på Utøya – en comic relief situation efter att vi blivit upptäckta av polisen. Två barn (9-11) som var med i den lilla grupp jag stod med frös och var rädda. Jag skulle be polisen om att ge oss filtar(sv.)/tepper(no.). Ropade trött och språkförvirrat: ”Vi trenger FILTER til barna!”. Resultat: skratt från både stora och små norrmän.

den 23 juli kl. 19:23


In the middle of the unimginable madness on Utøya - a moment of comic relief after the police dicovered us. Two children (ages nine and eleven) who were in my little group were frozen and tired. I was going to ask the police to give us blankets (= "filtar" in swedish; "tepper" in norwegain). (I) called out, tired and confused about my languages: "We need FILTERS for the children!". Result: laughters from both big and small norewegians.

July 23, 19:23 hours


... Are we having fun yet?? Surely there's nothing like a little comic relief to round off a mass murder!??
- And I know, I know: In the original, he DOES write: "Två barn (9-11)" (Two children (9-11)!!!! Go figure!!!!!


Your turn!!

One question for you...
Do you know what word "filter" can sound like when not talking 100% correct/clear norwegian?

Byfroken

PLEASE tell me you're joking??

No, I am not joking.

When considering what the word sounds like - I promise you - every norwegian would laugh in a normal situation.
Considering the situation they were in, it must have been a relief to laugh. (and when also considering that laughter is a normal reaction for some people when experience a trauma.... I dont find this strange. I have studied Operative Psycology, and you will find more information about all kind of reactions of a trauma/crisis there).

Byfroken

[traumabasedmindcontr]

One question for you...
Do you know what word "filter" can sound like when not talking 100% correct/clear norwegian?

Byfroken

Wait a minute. I got it: "Filter" can sound like: "69 youngsters have been brutally murdered right next to me but, who cares? Shit happens". ... Is that about right!?

[brianv]

"I have studied Operative Psycology" [normally spelled psychology]

Apply to analyse Anders then! Here's your big chance!

[Unleashed]

Byfroken, your friend's son, he's mentioned who they are that he's mourning?

Does his mother recognize the names and mention them in conversation to you? Like oh, poor so and so?
It's hard to believe that you don't know the names of anyone this close to the situation. One degree of separation.

[Byfroken]

One question for you...
Do you know what word "filter" can sound like when not talking 100% correct/clear norwegian?

Byfroken

Wait a minute. I got it: "Filter" can sound like: "69 youngsters have been brutally murdered right next to me but, who cares? Shit happens". ... Is that about right!?

no... it does not mean that at all.
The laughter in a type of situation as this does not mean "having a great time", and you will understand if you get som facts about human reactions in crisis or trauma.

Byfroken