OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011

[simonshack]

The defence attorney, Lippestad, represented Ole Nicolai Kvisler, who was convicted of the racially motivated murder of Benjamin Hermansen in 2002.

Yeah. And here's the story! http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2369135

[disinpho]

Of course this isn't the first time a case like this is being (partially) held behind closed doors. Another well known example is "the Treholt case".

Oh, so the Treholt-case was also closed to public scrutiny.

But this is actually the first time a trial is being televised in Norway.

Yes, and what a disturbing first. How in the world would anyone think of putting a possibly insane (and legally incompetent) person on national television? Did he sign a consent form?

Not sure what you mean by "thin backstory".

I think I meant that many of the "aktører" seem to have only been involved in one or two other cases before, wich is wierd in such a high-profile case as this.

I think 'thin' backstory was a bit inaccurate, 'unlikely' or 'overly entangled' backstory be might more descriptive. The whole narrative is self-referencing and goes around in circles, leading you to the same few cases and personages.

For instance, if you consult the norwegian national broadcasting company's 22/7 "facts" page you will notice the Treholt-case is the mentioned as the only reference in the backstory of three of the court-'aktører'. Curiously, two of them didn't participate themselves, but are mentioned as relatives to Treholt-'aktører' (Don't they have case-references themselves?).

Andreas Arntzen, the defence-lawyer from the Treholt-case is father to Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen from the Breivik-case
Jon Lyng, the defence-lawyer from the Treholt-case is the uncle of Judge Arne Lyng from the Breivik-case.
The public prosecutor Tor-Aksel Busch was also the public prosecutor in the Treholt-case.

The case against Arne Treholt was made by Overvåkningspolitiet (Norwegian Police Intelligence Agency), the Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen is member of the supervisory board of Norway's National Intelligence Agencies (plural). We can presume that Overvåkningspolitiet have participated in the preparation of the Breivik-case. We will probably disagree on the nature of their participation. The other judge, Arne Lyng, was the leader of "politiets 22. juli-enhet", the unit investigating the Breivik case. This is extremely convoluted, and a breach of the separation of powers!

And theres more wierdness...

Arne Treholt (the defendant in the Treholt-case) was a politician from Arbeiderpartiet. Geir Lippestad, the defence-lawyer in the Breivik-case is also from Arbeiderpartiet. Oh, and we must not forget - Breivik's target was Arbeiderpartiet.

The defence attorney, Lippestad, represented Ole Nicolai Kvisler, who was convicted of the racially motivated murder of Benjamin Hermansen in 2002. And the two public prosecutors are not exactly unknown. They have handled many big cases

It is true that in the backstory to Breivik's defence attorney Geir Lippestad we find him as the defence attorney for the nazi/fascist Ole Nicolai Kvisler (a case he lost), but he has not handled 'many big cases'.

In the backstory to the public prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh we find that she was also public prosecutor in the case against yet another nazi/fascist, Tore Tvedt. Tore Tvedt does a reappearance in the narrative, as he plays a witness in the case against nazi/fascist Breivik.

So it is evident that many of these characters mainly come out of the woodwork when theres high-profile cases involving Arbeiderpartiet and Nazis/Facists (or both).

In a real court case of this magnitude I would expect well-known and experienced participants with previous media-appearances, but here I have found very little evidence to support their existence outside the 22/7 courtroom. Therefore I suspect that very few of them are actual flesh-and-blood human beings, you don't seem to wan't to prove me/us wrong, just bash away at the general idea.

Anyway, you can start here:

http://www.domstol.no/no/Enkelt-domstol ... i-sal-250/

Please don't just post links left and right, this page contains absolutely no real information. Again a link with floor plans and no evidence to support the allegation that any journalists are present in the courtroom. Can you name one journalist visible in the tv-broadcast?

This thread hasn't *proven* anything. Outside your comfy little bubble here in this forum, who else has come to the same conclusions

What have you proven, and what are your conclusions? You seem very keen on dismissing the implications of our research, but not very interested in dealing with anything concrete or evidence-based. Can you prove to us Harald Stanghelle, Aftenposten or John Olav Egeland, Dagbladet are present in the courtroom or was that just something you casually 'threw out there'? I would love to know, as it will help me determine with more certainty if all the persons in the tv-broadcast are computer characters.

[Terence.drew]

Excellent return forehand disinpho to the inane official story serving machine. I didn't realise things were so incestuous and interwoven in the ...cough cough nudge nudge wink wink...courtroom.

[Heiwa]

Anyway, you can start here:

http://www.domstol.no/no/Enkelt-domstol ... i-sal-250/

And what about distribution of seats from week 1? Why give the biggest newspaper in Sweden, DN, seat 79 in week 2 and no seat at all in week 1 = DN reported what was shown on a screen? And why give seats to media companies and not to named journalists? Strange info to say the least.

[Kentrailer]

So, now the undercarriage of the supposed van just "appears" and it's stored in a very cramped location in what looks like a Costco:


This new release of information was of course timed with Adrian Praconman's new book- Monetizing on the death of his "friends" that he couldn't even name in his earlier interviews (I'm sure they'll have plenty of names in the book though) I'm sure Adrian's book will be the "bible of Utoya liars" that they use as the "official story they're going with, which shouldn't be contradicted."



So, it's ok for Adrian to make money off of Utoya, but it's not OK for Versace?
Kind of a double standard there.. Surprised that Adrian didn't even wait a year to release a book on this sensitive subject.. Guess he's ready to rake in the money and attention now! I was thinking I might have to be the only person on Earth to buy that piece of tripe, just to see how the story has changed/morphed from his last testimony.

Hopefully by this point in time they'll make it sound somewhat believable.. Let me try writing a scene in Praconman's book- Where Breivik and Pracon allegedly meet for the first time:

------------------
We were all really scared, me and my friend on the left, and friend on the right. We ran through the tall green grass of the beautiful island, with the shrill screams of terror growing ever closer. For me it was like a nightmare! The girl next to me, who was a really good friend of mine got shot in the head!

This was no time to think, I had to run! I tried to help another girl who was next to me, but she got shot in the stomach! There was so much blood!

Finally, I could see the twinkle of the lake through the pine trees. I was so relieved! I didn't even feel my feet getting cold as I ran into the water! More of my good friends were shot as they attempted to swim away! He was right behind me!

I started to swim in the lake, but my boots were too heavy and I am incapable of removing a boot while swimming. It was the worst!!

Some people find swimming in a lake in Norway in July refreshing, however my experience was not the same! (Even though late July is about the warmest Tyrifojorden gets I was quite cold).

I started to drown! Cough! Cough! Bullets were whizzing by my head, as I saw Breivik murderistically looking at me. I decided I should swim right toward him, as I was drowning and my heavy boots were pulling me to the bottom of Tyrifojorden! Before I knew it, he was RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME! He stared at me murderistically, and then he yelled "This is the day You're going to DIE, I'm going to Kill You All!!!!" At which point he pointed the machine gun at me and I said "Please, no! Don't do it!" Because I'm special or something, Breivik didn't shoot me. I mean, he did later, like an hour later, but not then. I couldn't believe it, as he totally spared my life, and swiveled around starting to shoot at the other people who were trying to swim away!.."

-------------

I could go on... I personally think Versace's version is more accurate than Praconmans.. heck, we can choose any version of alternate reality we want, can't we?

[Gauging]

Breivik didn't shoot me. I mean, he did later, like an hour later, but not then. I couldn't believe it,

Hilarious! Excellent writing, thank you. And there we have the essence of all these ludicrous narratives - that they are ludicrous. The challenge is to convince our peers that they are being deceived.

[Kentrailer]

Breivik didn't shoot me. I mean, he did later, like an hour later, but not then. I couldn't believe it,

Hilarious! Excellent writing, thank you. And there we have the essence of all these ludicrous narratives - that they are ludicrous. The challenge is to convince our peers that they are being deceived.

Thanks.. I have some more time now.. Let me give it another shot.

---------------

"Tranquility Lost" - Not written by Adrian Pracon

In shock, me and my comrades gathered around the television in the cantina, waiting for word from Oslo. Many of my friends were getting text messages from friends and family in Oslo telling them that downtown had been hit hard. Many people were blaming the Muslims, which I feel is terrible, as we at the AUF support multiculturalism.

It was scary to see the amount of devastation in downtown, we are a peaceful nation, and we have never done anything to anybody, so we never expected to be the victims' of a terrorist attack! As I was watching the television, with my friends, I was thinking about how nobody would have expected it to happen in Oslo- and if it can happen here in Norway, it can happen anywhere!

It was just then that we started hearing the first loud pops from far away outside- My friends thought that someone had brought fireworks, to have a party!

Sarah said "Let's go outside and see the fireworks!"

"I laughed at her, smiled, and said: "We don't have any fireworks" I said, they are extremely dangerous after all!

Sarah agreed, but said that she thought she heard some noise- that's when I heard the first sounds.

Chapter 2

I put down my ludefisk and rice, and said "Sarah, we must go!" Sarah looked at me with a confused look, so I grabbed her arm and pulled her up. Walking out of the cantina, the sun blinded us, so I covered my eyes, to see him for the first time to our right. He was staring murderistically, pointing like a robotic killer. He was literally an army of one man, and I thought to myself "we need better gun regulations in Europe, this is rediculous!" At that moment, my flight or fight kicked in, and it was flight, we ran toward the water.

I heard screaming! Loud screams! There was the crunching sound of trees being hit with bullets and their bark blowing apart! Large chunks of bark were flying off the trees, as he shot all over the place with his machine gun! He looked like a bald man, who was a murderer!

At that point, I realized, I had not been smelling fire smoke, but instead, GUN SMOKE!

We turned to the left, running to the shore, where we thought we would be safe. I felt the sweat on Sarahs arm, and that's when she was shot from behind in the head. I held her warm hand as she fell to the ground, with her head completely blown apart.

There was no time to think! I had to run to the shore. The glistening water was visible ahead- it wasn't just water, it was SAFETY. I yelled to my other friend "come with me, we have to get to the water!" She followed me, but it was too late. She was shot in the stomach.

I cleared my throat and felt the adrenaline running through my veins, my lungs straining for air. My legs were hot from running, but I could barely feel anything- even the cold of the July lake as the water filled my boots. I swam, choking on water in my haste, my arms became like concrete sacks! Slowing down, I realized, I would not be able to make it! At that moment, my lungs half filled with water, I decided my only chance was to swim- back to the terror.

Chapter 3

Almost blacked out, and choking on the cold lake water, with my heavy boots on, that I couldn't take off- I saw him (and he saw me!). That was the second time I would see his murderistic look, as he pointed his hologram site at me. I crawled out of the water, my body trembling with fear. I looked into his eyes- he was so murderistic!

At that point, he paused and stared right into my eyes- I cried out, holding my hands as if in prayer: "Please, don't do it, don't shoot me!".. I closed my eyes, and gritted my teeth, tears streaming out- I waited for the bullet to enter my head, I kept thinking "I hope he just hits me in my head, or heart, so it ends quickly.." I opened my eyes, and saw him look at me, as if saying "you're welcome."

At that point, he swiveled to his left, pointing into the water, and started picking my friends off like ducks! The water started being filled like a punch bowl, but it wasn't punch.. It was the blood of innocents!

At that point, I just kind of stood there on the shore, while he picked off everybody, and then he left.

Chapter 4

After Breivik left, I started to check the bodies to see if anyone was alright, but they were all dead. Because Breivik had come back and shot everyone in the head, there was nobody for me to help save, so I decided to head back to the cantina to make phone calls, instead of staying in my "safe" location.

I made it to the Cantina safely, and instead of calling police, I decided I should call the media first, because they respond to crimes first usually. After I called VG, I called The victim's family members with phone numbers I know from memory.

I decided it wasn't safe to stay in this location, as he had been here before, so I headed back to the shore.

At the shore, it was shear carnage! I saw my friends all around me! I heard some people moaning, but then, I could hear Breivik at the same time! I heard him getting nearer, and the screams getting closer! I decided my best chance at survival was to ironically cover myself in the dead! I mean, bodies were shot and fell on top of me (I can't remember exactly, because of the trauma). After that. I heard him approaching.. He was RIGHT ON TOP OF ME!

I tried to hold in my breath to make him think I was dead. I could hear him capping other people's heads. It was my turn now.

I could feel his breath!

I felt the burst from the gun! I knew I was dead.

At that point, I knew I had been shot because of the loud sound, and the burst of air. I felt the bullet rip through my neck and shoulder. I mean just the shoulder.

He had missed my head at point blank range! "I am the luckiest man alive! I thought to myself!"

End of Chapter 4

[pov603]

Is Chapter 5 about when he screams out in pain alerting the very close ABB that he is still alive thus allowing ABB to administer the 'coup de grace'?

[Heiwa]

ABB seems to have a new tie every day! And plenty newspapers report 'live' from the court, i.e. publish comments on their web sites every minute what is happening in court ... but no pictures. I asked one reporter what tie ABB was carrying today = no reply.

[korereinsdyra]

ABB seems to have a new tie every day! And plenty newspapers report 'live' from the court, i.e. publish comments on their web sites every minute what is happening in court ... but no pictures. I asked one reporter what tie ABB was carrying today = no reply.

How strange...

[Heiwa]

It seems ABB changed his tie at noon. And the white collar is badly ironed. Is prison room service falling behind in spite of offering multiple ties.

[kjakan]

I'm not going to say much until I hear from MartinL - our man in Oslo.

And what did your man in Oslo say?

[simonshack]

*

Sorry folks. I will HAVE to repost this message from time to time:


This forum is not a chatline - all "normenn" wishing to join it from now on - are warned:

Any new member from Norway (or elsewhere) joining this forum only to ask questions - without providing as much as a iota of credible information/substantiated critique/or useful contributions to our discussions, will be immediately blocked.

Also, ALL new members - Norwegian or not - are required to introduce themselves here:
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=838

[simonshack]

*

Lest there are still people nurturing doubts that the Breivik psyop is truly meant to be Norway's "9/11" (and to squeeze into the public's psyche yet another reminder of September 11, 2001) here is an artist's illustration published by major Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten. And no - these are not meant to be the New York twin towers. They're meant to depict the Norwegian government buildings "destroyed by Breivik's fertilizer bomb" in Oslo... http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks ... 6LhrlImySo

[brianv]

*

Lest there are still people nurturing doubts that the Breivik psyop is truly meant to be Norway's "9/11" (and to squeeze into the public's psyche yet another reminder of September 11, 2001) here is an artist's illustration published by major Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten. And no - these are not meant to be the New York twin towers. They're meant to depict the Norwegian government buildings "destroyed by Breivik's fertilizer bomb" in Oslo... http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks ... 6LhrlImySo

...and you musn't overlook that the media were present during the event! So it really really happened!