The English and 9/11?

[Mudkipz]

I think you're right, Mudz. In order to generate some camaraderie and buy-in from the actors who participated it's important for everyone to know that nobody really got killed in the WTC. Showing them that the vicsims aren't real people is probably important for morale.

That is a really good point that I hadn't really thought of, I was just thinking of as black humour I guess. The whole concept of 'vicsims' really changes the planing and execution of the event.

I listened to an interview with some of the guys from 'letsroll' forum :blink: by Jim Fetzer :wacko: that went through some of the EXIF data on some of the pictures. It seems to show that they were last edited weeks before 911 which included adding the AP sidebar etc.

E2A was just going through the CNN memorial and noticed "Ivan Kyrillos Fairbanks Barbosa ".

Wierd, no?

[fred]

E2A was just going through the CNN memorial and noticed "Ivan Kyrillos Fairbanks Barbosa ".

Wierd, no?

Very weird. Does he bear a striking resemblance to fake 9/11 cameraman Evan Fairbanks?

I have a really hard time picturing mommy and daddy sitting there and saying, well, how about "Ivan Kyrillos Fairbanks Barbosa". He looks like a "Ivan Kyrillos Fairbanks Barbosa" to me, don't you think?

[nonhocapito]

The military tried fighting wars without the support of the media and decided that the "Lesson of Vietnam" was that you need the media to keep morale up on the home front, otherwise the public turns against your war and makes the military unpopular.

Military-media cooperation is the name of the game. The military is controlled by the Anglo-American establishment. Who controls the media? They have to agree on a common enemy.

If the plan were to demonize Jews and establish a Germanic master-race, the media wouldn't readily cooperate because that's been tried that once already and they decided to "never again" go along with that plan.

How about demonizing some other religion? "Radical Islam" is an enemy that makes both the media and the military happy. The "Western allies" of puppet king in the middle-east don't like radical Islam either. China doesn't like Radical Islam. Russia doesn't like Radical Islam. India doesn't like Radical Islam. Who likes Radical Islam? Everybody wins.

The media bosses like wars because wars create a steady flow of "news" and are good for ratings. Israel wants a free hand to keep the Muslims at bay and they need US backing so they tell the Hollywood establishment and "news media outlets" that the plan, the War on Terror, is a good idea.

So, the Saudi kings and princes and gulf oil emirs get to stay in power for now if they cooperate with the plan. They don't want a coup that re-distributes power and wealth. They've been bought off. Their radical elements get an external enemy to complain about, and they get to read articles that their kings are secretly supporting terrorists. So the terrorist sympathizers are happy. China gets to keep their hundred-million or so Muslims in check. Russia gets to crack down on the Chechnyans. India gets to fight against her rebel provinces.

Israel gets some sympathy in the West for fighting the common enemy of the US and UK. So it's a good thing, just like Netanyahu said.

Maybe 9/11 is not so good if you're active duty military, a Palestinian, or an Afghan or Pakistani villager. But those people don't really have a seat at the table. They're supposed to sit back and wait to be liberated by a smart bomb or predator drone.

I don't think Israel is actually in the driver's seat, but like Eisenhower says they need to be inside of the tent and pissing out of it, rather than standing outside pissing in.

The US and UK share a common intelligence community. It's like Texas vs Vermont. They may make fun of each other, but when it comes to military adventures they're all on the same side.

I agree with most of this analysis. At the end of the day, it is hard to say who is in the driver's seat from the outside, besides maybe there is not one driver but many.
(Thanks for not mentioning the Rothschilds incidentally, they're like the faceless king lizard, I don't know what I should do with them).

That said, I don't see how a war against the Muslim world could ever have been deemed as useful, if decades of Hollywood propaganda hadn't ingrained into people's heads the fact that Muslim people are fundamentally different from us and bad and evil.

This started a long time ago, back in the cold war days, and it started in Hollywood circles motivated by zionists and friends of Israel. Not elsewhere.

Even the Regan/Bush kingdom was focused at fighting Latin america as far as I recall.
I think the "who started it?" argument is a valid one, to understand whose original purpose is being served.

Israel have said the first word against the Muslim world, the more effective, the most urgent. They created consensus around it. They pushed the conflict when the whole world didn't wanna hear about it (against Egypt, Syria, Lebanon: the world went: "what? forget it"). Even the first Iraq war didn't go as planned because there wasn't enough motivation. Until 9/11...

[simonshack]

Nonhocapito,

I agree there must be more than one driver at the driver's seat. They take turns, I presume... However, in this era of mass deception, there should be little doubt about who are the masters of deceit, trickery and imposture - having perfected their 'smearing acts' for decades.

Don't know if you've read this old post of mine:

ABU NIDAL vs BIN LADIN
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... wtopic=197

[wtc-wtf]

Using these two Wikipedia pages as a reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... at_Britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_ ... ted_States

We can see here that during the 1990s,the British public suffered 20 terrorist attacks,compared to America's 8.
Its quite possible that the UK government were already expert's at using media deception and terror tactic's to scare there own public,long before 9/11.If they weren't involved i'd be surprised.

[simonshack]

We can see here that during the 1990s,the British public suffered 20 terrorist attacks,compared to America's 8.
Its quite possible that the UK government were already expert's at using media deception and terror tactic's to scare there own public,long before 9/11.If they weren't involved i'd be surprised.

It is quite possible, yes!

We are getting somewhere: the awakening to the Anglo/American/[st]"censored"[/st] Evil Empire!

[bostonterrierowner]

Just a few sentences regarding Israel mainly to NoHo


Dont you think that Israel was constructed as a whipping boy ? The real masters are in London with their gigantic usury machine City of London and its subcontractor NYSE plus Hong Kong and others , thats my opinion .

I changed the angle at which I looked at Jewish State when I realized ( thanks to this forum ) that Israeli PTB want to be hated . If their mistreatment of Palestinians doesnt work they come up with Gaza Flotillas , poor American girls runover by bulldozers , James Galloway and other stuff ...

Why do you produce a masive MSM psy-op like fake humanitarian flotilla being attacked by Israeli soldiers and make sure every TV station on this planet puts it on prime time ?
Real zionists are in UK , Vatican , USA ( I am not saying that Jews are not over-represented in these viper nests ) and they make us believe that strings are pulled in Tel Aviv . Israel might be expandable once it expiration date comes due .

Britain hasnt been invaded since 1066 . Why ? Is it that difficult ?

In my opinion the answer is simple . Thats the place where the decisions are made , the real puppet masters reside and keep their "stuff" so Ordnung Muss Sein like the Germans say

Is it going to last? I dont know .

p.s.

I must admitt that a concept of creating a whole , new State - Israel was brilliant. Now they own the whole country , full of scared citizens treating it like their "insurance policy " . World is full of anti-semites , right? We all know that Jewish State is totally subsidized by the gigantic Usury machine to be used as their tool .

[simonshack]

Just a teaser (and simplistic enough, just as I like it) thought:

How can any intelligent person not see that Margaret Thatcher(TORY PARTY) and Tony Blair(LABOUR PARTY) worked for the very same agenda? (That is: the desperate attempt to uphold the old British Empire - and hegemony over this world). How was this weeny, rainy island even allowed to get this far?

[nonhocapito]

Just a few sentences regarding Israel mainly to NoHo

...well my opinion is that the situation is pretty paradoxical...

Sure it is true, it could be argued that the zionists or even the jews as a whole are used as the scapegoat to take the blame for the anglo-american empire (although the zionist angle in relation to 9/11 never really caught on, as this is a peripheral 'theory': so what gives?)

And it could be argued exactly the opposite: that the zionists, who also appear to be controlling hollywood (and hence have the keys to the emotional mood of the entire world) use the empire to their ends, having infiltrated it to the highest levels, and make their wars look like oil wars or wars for the maniac, sick needs of the american ruling elite (albeit, obviously, all these needs can converge and be taken care of).

It could be argued in this sense, as per the early conspiracy theories, that the Bush family and the whole "PNAC" business have been perfect in taking the blame away from the zionists and make it look as if this was all a matter of powerful american elites working for their "New Pearl Harbor".

In any case, of the three angles from which to look at this story I find the one of the british the less convincing or the less interesting. I can be impressed by the power of the "City of London" as much as I can be impressed by the fact that the world's most powerful corporations are based in the USA. Neither circumstance tell us where the bucket stops, and I think that saying that the decisions are taken in London is an unwarranted statement.

When I look at the past decade, I don't see the interests of the British nor the interest of the USA being specially pursued. Do you? I see the credibility and efforts of these two nations being drained and pushed to their limit, to moral and financial bankruptcy: all to ends that are not entirely clear.

Why Iraq was taken? Why Afghanistan? Why all wars seem to revolve around the middle east? Why the muslims have been for so long fingered (by Hollywood and news media especially) as a criminal, dangerous force?

Well despite all these consideration that might make it seem like I have come to my conclusions, I am not entirely decided about all this... And it doesn't make things clearer the fact that I don't really believe in a "one" pyramid, but I am instead convinced that a lot of underground infighting goes on, so alliances or rivalries that are true in one instance may cease to be true in another.

[whatsgoingon]

a

[nonhocapito]

I am increasingly of the idea that 9/11 is a PsyOp used to show that the terrorists "drained" the West of its standard of living. The other idea is to explain the decrease in oil consumption which is imported from the MIddle east with terrorists and wars and so forth. Joe Average can then see the MIddle East terrorists are keeping him from donuts and SUVs and McDonalds Happy meals and the like.

It is "Oil Baby Oil" and "Devalue currencies Devalue" The real currency is oil. Paper is paper. So they need the average person to use less oil. They make all the paper buy less oil.

That is the net effect 11 years later imho. Oh all the devaluation is Worldwide unless you are rich enough to have gold reserves.

But there's oil in Venezuela too, and elsewhere... Yet the energies of the anglo-american military machine in the past decade have been entirely devoted to the middle east or the arab world. While Hollywood went to great lengths to even praise and pay homage to Chavez. How come?

If the purpose was to get people to use less oil, there certainly could have been less troublesome ways than faking 9/11 and bidding the USofA and the UK into war. Just speculation on its price would have been sufficient. Or simply directly fake scarcity. Why fake 9/11 and the wars? Maybe to simply get the western world to the same level of defensiveness against the muslim world as Israel? Anyone remembers the first statements of Ariel Sharon after 9/11?

But it's true that it is very difficult to actually estimate the relevance or truthfulness of the 'oil peak' problem. And of course the frustrating thing is that each of these explanations is never entirely satisfactory when left by itself. We could be very close to the truth or still far. But we should not make the mistake to always each time 'discard' one interpretation for the other, but rather try to integrate the parts that make some sense.

[hoi.polloi]

London is the epicenter of modern "magical" thinking. It is populated by people who genuinely believe they are good and bad magicians entering a new age, controlling Earthly resources and thoughts to tempt/manipulate powerful spirits that intersect with Earth.

You could read Mark Booth or others to learn more about how magical thinking is prevalent in England today.

I think we haven't "brushed" the truth but hit it - bam - in the center of the nail. Or nails, as it were. London and its racist, "White Power" connections to America.

The reason the dominant paradigm of the politicians has schizophrenic goals is because our culture itself has schizophrenic goals. These seemingly random decisions could be the result of our un-democracy in action, run first by paranoid drugged-out citizens and second by the delusional corporations those citizens create in a flailing attempt to right the direction of the WashingtonDC-London empire. Some of the first group - the people - are having private meetings and wield a lot of power and influence. But it's like controlling a herd of individualist giants. The rest of us are not worried about controlling spirits (activity of the "bad magicians") or "stopping bad magicians" (activity of the "good magicians").

To us it seems like a common paradigm - the "corporate giants" paradigm - the "magical thinking" paradigm that places anything above the value of life and our ecosystem. But that's just because we don't have the maniacal drive they do to fight a mythical war. We are worried about eating, sleeping, shelter and taking care of our family and friends.

On the one hand, some of these "magical thinkers" probably do want to control the oil. On the other hand, some probably do want to declare enemies one at a time rather than all at once. The fact that neither of these goals is logical is what unites us. We are united by our skepticism in the importance of a battle told to us in fiction.

The "war on terrorism" is a perfect simile for the fictional "war on evil" since an ultimate universal evil doesn't actually exist.

These apparently delusional "warriors" hide numbers in the paper because they think that makes the gods more real. They think it is an "acceptable risk" to be discovered because they think they will not be discovered because the gods want to come to Earth and give their crazy asses magic powers.

Think about it. They are just a macro version of the same disorganized politics of any given small section of humanity. "WE" are on the other side of a wealth gap that describes the shape of "THEIR" realms of influence. We are "poor". They are "rich". They are in that "rich" realm, which is protected by cheap plastic carpet with the "new car smell" and plaster walls and men with guns. They believe they need this peace and quiet to work "magic" - which as it turns out just means controlling giant corporations that they believe to be animated by spirits of gods. This is why they indoctrinate people in private in their secret societies - easier to convince them of the same religious beliefs. It is incredible to think they believe this, but if you get down to it, this is what they believe. And the magic does have a British-pagan tradition that has been passed down into Buddhism, Judaism, Catholicism, other forms of Christianity, Islam, Ba'hai and other traditions that share a belief in "grander powers" that humans necessarily must have a hand in. We, of course, disagree. This is why we don't discuss spiritual or wacky matters on our forum. The border between the rational materialism and the spiritual discussions is the wall that we all share in common in our minds - which protects us from the belief that we should harm others for some kind of abstract gain.

It's possible that the "good magicians" think that the esoteric traditions dictate that we are entering an age (a "New World Order") in which these "grander powers" are either arbitrary or much more public. The "bad magicians" don't want this to be known and want the "New World Order" to be them - sitting pretty with magic wands. They are working hard to maintain a connection to these "spirits" they believe in. We are working hard - with the "good magicians" whether we like it or not - to have humanity collectively let go of the need for that kind of connection and just live with each other in peace without the need for constant religious/territorial bloodbaths.

It is not my place to say whether magic is real or not, but it is my place to say that I strongly disagree with the notion that our powers - magic or conventional - should be used to harm others. Therefore, we on this hyper-rational forum are actually allied with people who are deep-down not so hyper-rational. For example, the writer on secret society beliefs (Mark Booth) seems to think that the "magicians" would call our quest a religious form of rational materialism thinking that - perhaps - this time - will not lead to our demise but usher in a "new age" of equity.

We are allied in some sense with those who believe they are "magicians" fighting "bad spirits" and who in turn are allied against those who believe they are "magicians" using arbitrary spirits for "power". Unfortunately, this illusion means we may be allied with the delusional - people who might not be able to distinguish bad from good or real from fiction. I hope that we can retain this logical haven and that is why it is a good idea for us to ban all the UFO and crop circle-type discussions.

Look at this forum and how it operates. We're like a "benevolent dictatorship" united under logic and rational materialist thinking. Those who hate our discussions are united under fear and stupidity and illusion and hate of being discovered for the crazy people we all are. Who wants all their faults and mistakes and intentions to be made public? Nobody!

But especially British "magicians" with God-complexes who think they can trample over people because they are magic.

My guess is that we act on fewer insane thoughts than they do and they can't help themselves. That is why we are prevailing in the conversation, given a chance to actually have sane, rational dialogue with the public. Our age is the age of the death of the mythical "corporation" entity - and with it - the death of inequity between cultures. Our goal should be to end corporate personhood and discorporate our influence and our attention from its business model.

[fbenario]

London is the epicenter of modern "magical" thinking. It is populated by people who genuinely believe they are good and bad magicians entering a new age, controlling Earthly resources and thoughts to tempt/manipulate powerful spirits that intersect with Earth.

You could read Mark Booth or others to learn more about how magical thinking is prevalent in England today.

I think we haven't "brushed" the truth but hit it - bam - in the center of the nail. Or nails, as it were. London and its racist, "White Power" connections to America.

The reason the dominant paradigm of the politicians has schizophrenic goals is because our culture itself has schizophrenic goals. These seemingly random decisions could be the result of our un-democracy in action, run first by paranoid drugged-out citizens and second by the delusional corporations those citizens create in a flailing attempt to right the direction of the WashingtonDC-London empire. Some of the first group - the people - are having private meetings and wield a lot of power and influence. But it's like controlling a herd of individualist giants. The rest of us are not worried about controlling spirits (activity of the "bad magicians") or "stopping bad magicians" (activity of the "good magicians").

To us it seems like a common paradigm - the "corporate giants" paradigm - the "magical thinking" paradigm that places anything above the value of life and our ecosystem. But that's just because we don't have the maniacal drive they do to fight a mythical war. We are worried about eating, sleeping, shelter and taking care of our family and friends.

On the one hand, some of these "magical thinkers" probably do want to control the oil. On the other hand, some probably do want to declare enemies one at a time rather than all at once. The fact that neither of these goals is logical is what unites us. We are united by our skepticism in the importance of a battle told to us in fiction.

The "war on terrorism" is a perfect simile for the fictional "war on evil" since an ultimate universal evil doesn't actually exist.

These apparently delusional "warriors" hide numbers in the paper because they think that makes the gods more real. They think it is an "acceptable risk" to be discovered because they think they will not be discovered because the gods want to come to Earth and give their crazy asses magic powers.

Think about it. They are just a macro version of the same disorganized politics of any given small section of humanity. "WE" are on the other side of a wealth gap that describes the shape of "THEIR" realms of influence. We are "poor". They are "rich". They are in that "rich" realm, which is protected by cheap plastic carpet with the "new car smell" and plaster walls and men with guns. They believe they need this peace and quiet to work "magic" - which as it turns out just means controlling giant corporations that they believe to be animated by spirits of gods. This is why they indoctrinate people in private in their secret societies - easier to convince them of the same religious beliefs. It is incredible to think they believe this, but if you get down to it, this is what they believe. And the magic does have a British-pagan tradition that has been passed down into Buddhism, Judaism, Catholicism, other forms of Christianity, Islam, Ba'hai and other traditions that share a belief in "grander powers" that humans necessarily must have a hand in.

I think the "good magicians" know that these traditions dictate that we are entering an age in which these "grander powers" are either arbitrary or much more public. The "bad magicians" don't want this to be known and are working hard to maintain a connection to these "spirits" they believe in.

It is not my place to say whether magic is real or not, but it is my place to say that I strongly disagree with the notion that our powers should be used to harm. Therefore, we on this hyper-rational forum are actually allied with people who are deep-down not so hyper-rational. For example, the writer on secret society beliefs (Mark Booth) seems to think that the "magicians" would call our quest a religious form of rational materialism thinking that - perhaps - this time - will not lead to our demise but usher in a new age of equity.

We are allied in some sense with those who believe they are "magicians" fighting "bad spirits" and who in turn are allied against those who believe they are "magicians" using arbitrary spirits for "power". Unfortunately, this illusion means we may be allied with the delusional - people who might not be able to distinguish bad from good. I hope that we can remain logical and that is why it is a good idea for us to ban all the UFO and crop circle-type discussions.

Look at this forum and how it operates. We're like a "benevolent dictatorship" united under logic. Those who hate our discussions are united under fear and stupidity and illusion and hate of being discovered for the crazy people they are. Who wants all their faults and mistakes and intentions to be made public? Nobody!

But especially British "magicians" with God-complexes who think they can trample over people because they are magic.

My guess is that we act on fewer insane thoughts than they do and they can't help themselves. That is why we are prevailing in the conversation, given a chance to actually have sane, rational dialogue with the public.

This is the single best explanation yet proposed of the top of the perp pyramid. The short paragraph in bold clearly summarizes the whole essay.

[fbenario]

If their mistreatment of Palestinians doesnt work they come up with Gaza Flotillas , poor American girls runover by bulldozers , James Galloway and other stuff ...

Make that James George Galloway.

[whatsgoingon]

a