9/11 MEMORIAL SCAMS, VICSIMS, Etc

The notion of 'thousands of victims' was crucial to generate universal public outrage. However, having 3000 angry families breathing down their necks was never part of the perps' demented plan. Our ongoing analyses and investigations suggest that NO one died on 9/11.
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brianv
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Unread post by brianv » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:01 pm

I recall Hoi's post....

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1619461

Can't be the same Culto who did all the facial comparisons - can it?

walkingwizard
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Unread post by walkingwizard » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:28 pm

I randomly browsed a few memorial sites for the vicsims of 911 and i ended up on something called: terroristattack.com.
Once there I decided to just pick a name to follow up a bit.I had in mind to choose a name that seemed somewhat unusual at least to me, so I picked this name: arlene t babakitis
Listed as a vicsim living in Secaucus, NJ Passed at the age of 47

Next thing I did was to run her name in Whitepages.com that directed me to a site called: peoplesmart.com
And there I found a match?
arlene t babakitis Secaucus, NJ Jersey City age 57

Now here is were I start think something smells....

I guess there is a few Different scenarios:

1. Someone else with the same (unusual) name living at same location and born at same year.

2. Her name has just been "kidnapped" for the memorial site

3. peoplesmart.com have not received info about her passing

4. She actually did die for real

5. You tell me, there is a lot of other possibilties i guess

Oh, I also should mention that it is possible to get more info about her at peoplesmart.com if you sign up and give them cash...(i am not trying to make commercial for this site even thou i mention it a few times)

I not sure what to make of this...
Any suggestions?

hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:26 pm

:lol:

Are you serious?

You can't wrap your head around what could be going on?

Homer Jay Simpson
40 years old
3300 West Avenue
Springfield, MA
USA

IT'S TEXT ON YOUR MONITOR

Wrap your head around that.

idschmyd
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Unread post by idschmyd » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:33 pm

walkingwizard 4 Oct 27 2010, 09:28 PM wrote: I randomly browsed a few memorial sites for the vicsims of 911 and i ended up on something called: terroristattack.com.
Once there I decided to just pick a name to follow up a bit.I had in mind to choose a name that seemed somewhat unusual at least to me, so I picked this name: arlene t babakitis
Listed as a vicsim living in Secaucus, NJ Passed at the age of 47

Next thing I did was to run her name in Whitepages.com that directed me to a site called: peoplesmart.com
And there I found a match?
arlene t babakitis Secaucus, NJ Jersey City age 57


Pick any number of names and find the same phenomena. Simon used website ‘Lookupanyone’ to discover multitudes of firefighters still living http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... 102&st=960
(scroll about half way down).

Personal favourite image of Ms Babakitis
Image
source

If you've got an address, why not make polite contact - thought you were dead?

mehlwurm
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Unread post by mehlwurm » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:09 am

Hello to everyone this is my first post here :-)
I read in the vicsim report that the Names are made up by a Computer Database from A-Z or something like that.

But i have noticed this maybe you guys heared about this already but maybe not.
One Vicsim is called Wolfgang Menzel and if you search for him he is known for the sentence "germany is the land of poets and thinkers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Menzel

he was also a harsh critic from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
and he wrote things about stuff in literature and elsewhere that attacked the moral of the society. etc..


And no i didnt know him i had to search for this because he was anti Goethe etc. he is maybe a taboo in the german school system ;)

however i think someone who wrote the "LIST" maybe tried to be realy intellectual.

goodbye.

idschmyd
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Unread post by idschmyd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:12 am

mehlwurm 4 Oct 28 2010, 03:09 AM wrote: One Vicsim is called Wolfgang Menzel... known for the sentence "germany is the land of poets and thinkers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Menzel

---i think someone who wrote the "LIST" maybe tried to be realy intellectual.

ImageImage

I guess that as with the rest of this sprawling hoax, the sim names were produced with various techniques.

hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:19 am

Hmm, yeah and his vicsim edition looks vaguely like Han Solo.

Cute. Seeing as how the intelligence of the vicsim producers extended to Ron Paul, Alex Jones and X-Men characters, I wouldn't be surprised if someone's high school thesis was on Menzel.

Thanks for noticing that.

walkingwizard
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Unread post by walkingwizard » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:17 pm

Are you serious? You can't wrap your head around what could be going on?


Well yeah. It is just a name right?
I do not argue with that, my point is how far are they willing to take this whole fantasy world? you can order a background check for arlene:


39.95
Comprehensive Background Report
Includes all of the following (when available):

* Up-to-date contact information and address history
* Relatives, household members, and neighbors
* Nationwide criminal check and offenses
* Bankruptcies, liens, and judgments
* Age and DOB
* Property and real estate records
* Business ownership and professional listings

And if you do this, either noting will come up or they have actually gone thru the trouble and fixed a background story.

In my book it is hard evidence of fraud if nothing shows up.

Catch my drift compadre?

Culto
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Unread post by Culto » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:46 pm

nonhocapito 4 Oct 27 2010, 04:54 PM wrote:
Culto 4 Oct 27 2010, 01:55 PM wrote: In the last year I had emails from, phone-calls and actual meetings with persons who state that they knew Ingeborg Lariby personally.
Question: why did you have meetings with persons who claim they knew Lariby?
Was it because you wanted to prove whether Lariby really existed or not? Or was it accidental?
If it was to prove that she existed, I suppose you did it to report back to this forum on your findings, right? So then why did you not make the forum part of this research, maybe step-by-step?
And who are these people? How are we supposed to know that you are not making them up, or they are not setting you up?

You write:
If she were a sim, the perps would have gone through all the efforts and risks to include these persons into their backstopping-system,
without any yield/benefit for them at all in terms of publicity.
Hmm... If she were a sim, these persons would not exist, would they... So if they exist, either she existed too, or they are lying. But maybe they do not exist, and you are lying. All in all, there are many possibilities, and a screenshot of an email isn't going to make them go away.

She was a real person and her published 'photos' were simmed.
This makes very little sense, the way you propose it. A real person has real friends and a real family and real colleagues, just like the ones you seem to offer to us as 'proof'. How are you going to modify someone's pictures, without her family or friends noticing it? And also: what is the purpose of having mock-victims if not to have total control on the realm of relatives and friends? What could be the benefit to mix vicsims and real people?

** EDIT: another possibility (that I don't believe much) is that a person who incarnated this "Ingeborg Lariby" existed, and like "Barbara Olson" underwent some radical plastic surgery and went on living after 9/11. If so, who cares? This speculation doesn't move very far from Lariby being simply a "sim": once an identity is simulated, it makes little difference the percentage of reality borrowed to create this identity, or whether this identity was simulated already before 9/11. Even if the borrowing was close to 80% (real face, real connections), it would still be a "sim". Otherwise -to make a similitude- all the identities used by secret agents in their profession would be "real" too.

*** EDIT 2: there has been a noticeable surge in the "reality" level of this character this year. Both the legacy and 911heroes memorials feature 2010 messages of people who "knew her",
two of them from "Richmond College in London, UK", both apparently, just apparently, real people and artist
s (Joanne Levey and Rodrigo Idrovo). The Netherlands have suddenly remembered she and her parents; this forum is periodically afflicted by comments that suggest how she, somehow, was a real person despite her imagery set being as regularly photoshopped as any vicsim. I wonder what is going on and why was she picked to be built-up as the real thing. Maybe the vicsim department just got a new Director of operations.

You don't seem to be too amused that I obtained the ultimate proof of Ingeborg Lariby's existence in my own original research.

I bet these are of the most bizarre quotes on this entire forum:

Question: why did you have meetings with persons who claim they knew Lariby?
Was it because you wanted to prove whether Lariby really existed or not? Or was it accidental?
If it was to prove that she existed, I suppose you did it to report back to this forum on your findings, right? So then why did you not make the forum part of this research, maybe step-by-step

Are these serious questions?? However, it would have been cool to accidentally meet somebody of her social circle; then most certainly I would have posted it!
You wish I had posted my research step-by-step, so you could have controlled it step-by-step as well?

How are you going to modify someone's pictures, without her family or friends noticing it? And also: what is the purpose of having mock-victims if not to have total control on the realm of relatives and friends? What could be the benefit to mix vicsims and real people

Who says it's necessary to modify someone's pictures without her family/friends noticing it? Sure they are 'in it' as well.
Besides, this 'simming' could have been very subtile on her face and more prominent on her hands, clothing, shadows etc. etc.
As a matter of fact, I happened to have a very interesting email-discussion with a person very close to her ( this person has been featured in the media, so was certainly part of 'the loop' btw.) and the main point of discussion was:....her photos!

Agreed that total control of the realm of relatives and friends isn't possible, but the very same problem occurs also with the 'backstoppers' of total c.g.i. vicsims.
I actually got personal experience with that as well, but I'll save you that story..

The benefit to mix vicsims and real people is that the entire vicsim-operation looks more realistic. Something like this quote from the Zohar:
'If you wish to strengthen a lie, mix a little truth in with it'.

another possibility (that I don't believe much) is that a person who incarnated this "Ingeborg Lariby" existed, and like "Barbara Olson" underwent some radical plastic surgery and went on living after 9/11. If so, who cares? This speculation doesn't move very far from Lariby being simply a "sim"

"If so, who cares?" - With all respect, but to me this statement looks like an attempt to gatekeep the option that she indeed existed and indeed had plastic surgery.
So that's food for thought.

However, this option is of course very different from "being simply a 'sim" ,
because that means that she was a real person and that she is involved in this fraud.

two of them from "Richmond College in London, UK", both apparently, just apparently, real people and artist

Richmond College already mentioned her in 2001. This a PDF, scroll to the very last page:
http://web.archive.org/web/200609291556 ... 01fall.pdf

The Netherlands have suddenly remembered she and her parents
This is absolute nonsense, what on earth do you base this statement on?
This year her name wasn't mentioned in the Dutch media at all, including Elsevier magazine.

I wonder what is going on and why was she picked to be built-up as the real thing.

Well, start your own Lariby-research and post your results here.
Step-by-step of course...

Culto
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Unread post by Culto » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:02 pm

brianv 4 Oct 27 2010, 07:01 PM wrote: I recall Hoi's post....

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1619461

Can't be the same Culto who did all the facial comparisons - can it?

Brianv, wishing your reading-skills were as brilliant as your avatar(:D) is!

Your link refers to my first post about the Ingeborg Lariby case, which hoi.polloi answered by defining the "simformation-sources".

Well, that's exactly the reason why I developed my own sources outside
this simformation, avoiding this whole issue of 'perp-infested' sources on the internet.

nonhocapito
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Unread post by nonhocapito » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:08 pm

Culto 4 Oct 28 2010, 03:46 PM wrote: Well, start your own Lariby-research and post your results here.
Step-by-step of course...
I admit I haven't researched much the Lariby case. Maybe she is very important. After having looked into it just a little bit, enough to find photoshopped pictures and absurd stories, I kind of lost my interest.

Maybe it was not from this year, but just recently on this forum we were offered a dutch show about Lariby that featured her parents showing photoshopped pictures from a family album.

I think I wasn't alone in concluding that, even if Lariby were real, which didn't seem likely, her parents weren't: lying was going on and not the contrary.

Anyhow, anything can be interesting if your evidence is actually shown. But because all you say is that you "have evidence"; that you talked to "some people"; then I lose interest. Well, that's just me, I am not talking for anybody else.

The "step by step" remark meant simply this: a sincere researcher, willing to share her or his material with others, does not arrive to the forum with everything ready in his hands, and yet being vague about details. One would come back saying "I discovered this" since collaborative research *works*, as far as I can tell.
Pardon me if I am suspicious of solitary accomplishments that rain on others without clarity on the process, or even the material itself.

As to "gatekeeping"... with my "who cares". There is another form of gatekeeping, which is to get people lost in labyrinths where nothing is ever clear or sure. What I meant was simply that I wasn't incredibly curious to know what made this or that vicsim record: sometimes it is enough to know that it is a vicsim and not a victim.

That's a totally personal feeling. But hey, in the end it really depends on how good is this evidence of yours.

I haven't been long on this forum, but I got the impression that other similar cases, such as David Angell's, proved themselves to be so tangled up in contradictory material they tore apart the collaborative efforts rather than helping the research.

Culto
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Unread post by Culto » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:17 pm

Last Sunday a post was deleted which gave an analysis of the 2 new photos posted at 9-11heroes this year:

http://www.9-11heroes.us/v/Ingeborg_Ast ... Lariby.php

These photos have been uploaded by Mark Asbury of Genentech, featured in this link:

http://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.v78qz.htm


Image

Could you give me a reason why this post was deleted?

Thanks, Culto.

idschmyd
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Unread post by idschmyd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:17 pm

walkingwizard 4 Oct 28 2010, 03:17 PM wrote:
Are you serious? You can't wrap your head around what could be going on?

you can order a background check for arlene:

In my book it is hard evidence of fraud if nothing shows up.

Catch my drift compadre?

[Edit: question 1 answered and deleted]


To cut a long, terribly complicated response short, the existence of vicsim names in databases suggests the vicsims once lived. That the records are not properly configured to reflect the fictional deaths of their subjects raises the question ‘dead or alive’, as the BBC did with the fictional terrorists by reporting telephone calls with some of them.

Try contacting the entity on the peoplesmart database. If you get nowhere, it's proof of little. If you meet her for coffee and smell the compensation cheque, that might qualify as interesting.

idschmyd
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Unread post by idschmyd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:49 pm

Culto 4 Oct 28 2010, 03:46 PM wrote: it would have been cool to accidentally meet somebody of her social circle; then most certainly I would have posted it!

As a matter of fact, I happened to have a very interesting email-discussion with a person very close to her ( this person has been featured in the media, so was certainly part of 'the loop' btw.)

total c.g.i. vicsims. I actually got personal experience with that as well, but I'll save you that story..

This year her name wasn't mentioned in the Dutch media at all, including Elsevier magazine. [Source?]

Well, start your own Lariby-research and post your results here.
Step-by-step of course...
In the last year I had emails from, phone-calls and actual meetings with persons who state that they knew Ingeborg Lariby personally.

One email with details deleted an assertion does not validate.

This proof of her existence overrules all dicussions about the authenticity of her pictures. She was a real person?

Really?

God bless you for not having lifted a finger to win hearts and minds (you lost a few from the get go by attacking long-standing and valuable contributor brianv in your opening posts on this forum, and you’ve continued in that vein, like a popularity magnet cruelly reversed), but you’ve nothing but good faith on which to float this coup, thus it’s behaving like stone. Cease being a dickhead and start providing evidence for your ‘outside the loop’ alleged efforts ? sell us this scoop.

nonhocapito
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Unread post by nonhocapito » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:57 pm

idschmyd 4 Oct 28 2010, 04:17 PM wrote: Try contacting the entity on the peoplesmart database. If you get nowhere, it's proof of little. If you meet her for coffee and smell the compensation cheque, that might qualify as interesting.
Generally speaking... don't you have the feeling that operating this way every time we have the chance would expose us to a lot of baits?

I think that it should be "their" duty to prove that these people really existed and not ours to demonstrate more than it has already been done that they didn't. And I mean, for us to really demonstrate, like, in detail, collecting documents and interviewing people and whatnot, maybe for each "candidate". Sure, this would be ideal in a sense, but because we are not an institution with any "authority", you know how they could pollute this process, and in so many ways. (And here is where I feel that the invention of the internet also plays against us, because it gives us this false idea that what we find in it is made of some solid material instead than being ethereal).

Because there is no doubt that somewhere, right now, a group of people is discussing ways to fight back and patch the horrid vicsim operation.

What if they are starting to employ more new actors, and planting more evidence, and posting more baits, so that the reality of one, of ten, suddenly appearing irrefutable, in their minds would bring down the research with endless infighting on the reality of this or that person?

I don't know, maybe we ought to be more aggressive in some other way, trying to directly challenge the authorities to prove the existence of the stronger cases among the vicsims, instead of trying to prove false every little hint of reality that surrounds them, exposing ourselves to "actors 2.0" and "false documents 2.0".

But maybe I am missing one or two points. Just thinking out loud.

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