The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

It has taken less than 10 years to pry open the can of worms enshrouding the pathetic 9/11 scam. The central role of the major newsmedia corporations to pull off this sordid "terror" simulation has now been comprehensively exposed. Before joining this forum, please get familiar with the research at: http://www.septemberclues.info
Heiwa
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by Heiwa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:12 pm

@h.p.

The three fire fighters video is of course ... suspicious. Why do they sit there being interviewed in the sun when the action is still on? The one with nose bleed seems shocked - wants to go home to Mother on Long Island! Where did he get hurt? The one to left talks about explosions in lobbies (total three explosions - I like that!) and the third to right (from shower?) talks about a black plane. Maybe the whole thing is another fake? Another set of actors?

But fact remains only 'outsiders' at GZ at this time were mainly NYFD staff and NYPD. I assume the perps had their own men (FEMA?) on stage to control whatever had to be controlled.

Regardless - only way to destroy WTC1&2 was from bottom up. That had to be covered up, while the movie was running 'live on TV".

simonshack
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by simonshack » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:20 pm

Heiwa wrote: Maybe the whole thing is another fake? Another set of actors?
(...)
That had to be covered up, while the movie was running 'live on TV".

"The whole thing is another fake? Another set of actors"
?

Uh Oh, yeah - maybe - just maybe ! :lol:

See, Heiwa, over the years this research has gathered a massive amount of evidence exposing every single 9/11 image and video clip as phony, staged, computer-animated or - in one way or another - plainly fabricated. And it's not like only a small percentage of the 9/11 audiovisuals betray such tell-tale signs: It is a pervasive, systematic feature of THE ENTIRE material available. You yourself rightly call it "the movie running live on TV".

At this advanced stage of our anlyses and investigations, anyone (familiar with this research) still prone to lend an ounce of credibility to any piece of 9/11 footage has simply not applied sound logic to his/hers thought processes. It is quite beyond my comprehension why anyone could entertain the idea that ANY part of the 9/11 movie might possibly contain some legit on-site testimonies & interviews.

Personally, I have reviewed tons of images and videos, painstakingly searching for any audiovisual material which had the feel and flavor of legitimacy and genuineness. In vain. To those who keep thinking that some authentic/unedited/ private footage MUST have been shot on that day, I eagerly say: show it to me. I would just LOVE to see some. Bring it on.

As for just WHY no legit/private 9/11 imagery exists, here are my thoughts on the matter:
1: The very idea that dozens or hundreds of people walk around in Lower Manhattan with their video camera on an average tuesday morning is, first of all, quite silly. The first WTC1 event was totally unexpected - the chances for someone filming the WTC by chance at 8:46AM are ludicrously remote.
2: After 8:46AM, the operation involved a military-style evacuation. Anyone in the area was told to run for their lives. To believe that any cameramen would be left hanging around in the area is to believe that the USA has no military capabilities at all.
3: I believe an EXTRA safety measure was the use of electromagnetic jamming technology - I repeat - just an EXTRA safety measure. Any military black operation aims for a foolproof, 110% safety level - and would surely employ all available technologies to achieve it.
4: Any remaining 'camera heroes' snapping anything of value (in spite of point n°3) would have had the entire clout of the FBI and CIA after them. Where would they bring their images? To the authorities? To the TV networks? To the internet? Does anyone really believe this would constitute a peril or an unmanageable problem for the perps!?

Lastly, I can hear some saying: "What about people filming from afar?"
Well, I'll let you judge this video apparently filmed from afar. Let me know if you think it looks/sounds authentic:
"My 9/11 Footage - part1" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCeQJ8uw ... re=related

ThemDarnBats
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by ThemDarnBats » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:38 am

This is the only remotely believable image I have come across

Image

Questron
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by Questron » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:18 am

Hoi.polloi,

I'm not sure what to think about the situation of the perps leading people to believe there were demolition explosions when there really were demolitions going on. right now, to me, it seems counter-productive, but... anything is possible.

OK, if all witnesses are not to be trusted (a fine first assumption in my book), where does this leave us with the "witnesses" who reported hearing/seeing missiles, seeing small planes, etc.?

And I'll try to hold-off on the comments in this thread until I have something to report...

hoi.polloi
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:41 am

Internal explosions was a common 'threat factor' theme of the Naudet-Nextel propaganda film. In it, we even see a firefighter actor using a hand gesture to indicate multiple explosions on many floors. We also can hear explosions through-out the movie.

The ambiguity between bombs and 'suicide bodies' is deliberately vague; I believe we are meant to argue about this - forgetting that the entire situation is a fiction that is covering up the truth.

William Rodriguez is a famous guy who goes around talking about bombs in the basement - a story unhindered by the media and popularly circulated in gatekeeping circles. Whether or not a bomb went off in the basement, we must remember - again - the entire situation is a fiction that is covering up the truth.

Only when we step back and realize that the conversations about all of these things are being controlled by these stories can we recognize that we must do our own investigation into all these matters because an enormous effort has been put into making it virtually impossible to do so.

I think the smart thing to do is assume nothing - knowing that the facts have been deliberately scrambled and that we must come at it from the scientific standpoint of what we - individual investigators - know.

Heiwa
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by Heiwa » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:12 am

Some pictures of the WTC7 rubble seems to be true; 47 floors stacked on top of each other with the perimeter walls in pieces on top of the stack. Such pictures can be found on the net. It is the normal result of controlled demolition even if the US National Institute of Support of Terrorism, NIST, proposes thermal expansion of a joint heated by fire caused the same result (as no explosions were heard, LOL). WTC7 fell at free fall for 2.25 seconds = 8 floors must have disappeared at no time.

I assume that the WTC1 and WTC2 rubble looked similar; explosions took place at ground level, 4-8 floors columns were cut, 110 floors were stacked on top of each other, and that it was the reason to close off GZ and to publish fake pictures of that rubble (no floors?). But there must be witnesses of, e.g. the rubble and the floors. It has been a lot of noise about steel columns being shipped away. There should also have been 100 000's tons of reinforced steel mesh concrete floors to handle. Some real pictures of the rubble would be useful ... or witnesses of same.

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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by Tufa » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:18 pm

This little video: http://www.youtube.com/v/FGGP20137SA?fs=1&hl=sv_SE, I would like to add that I don't like the Alarm/siren sound in the background. The windspeed on the clip is also not consistent with the usual official burning tower videos (about 2x too high). Eh, I understand that Questron find it tricky with inserting a lie consistent with the truth, but there is much on this, and I agree with the previous responses given.

I would like to kindly ask if Heiwa could write about, and describe, the basic difference(s) between a top->down and a bottom->up controlled demolition. Simple facts like these; due to difference in background or education, if we can help each other a bit so we more easily understand each other. To some degree this also apply to the "bad" acting; how to see or spot this?

The "explosions going off" theme; I would like to make clear that "explosions" is no threat to the tower structure themselves, a "car bomb" in the basement cannot kill the tower and a "bomb" of about any size cannot destroy the tower. The reason is due to that steel is very strong and in a steel structure all other building elements will simply blow away and out the windows. A bigger bomb will simply make a bigger hole in the air, and the eject speed will be higher. A steel column close to the bomb can be bent or ripped off completely, but the tower, or any steel structure, is redundant so some handful of beams or steel elements can be removed without any risk for failure. When the bomb is close to column A, it is far away from column B, that can hold the tower. If you put the bomb in between, both colums survive. There is also C and D further away.

Military: To destroy a steel structure you must use solders on the ground to blow it up. Using several modern "precision" weapons also work.
History: The Hamburg central station. Was subject to intense and sustained bombing during WW-II. It is still there! Not much else is.

Compare with a controlled demolition where the explosion occurs a small distance from the steel, a copper plate is folded and accelerated to high speed, and the metal cut off the beam. Only a few mm of the beam will be missing, but the beam is cut. Note that someone must remove the office wall or decoration, and attach the explosive right on to the beam.

... so when you hear the fire-fighter say that "I could hear a bomb going off" this is psychological to insert some "evidence" that can later support a "theory" of about any kind. The idea is that most listeners will think that the "bombs" "blew up" the tower.
Note: A single, or several air-planes (real ones) can mess up the towers rather good (do not attempt to hide under your office desk!!); it is only the overall physical stability of the core structure of the tower that is discussed above.

Well, I also have some photos that could pass as OK, real and genuine pictures (no "towers" on them :D ).

bware59
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Re: "DEBUNK A SEPTEMBER CLUE!"

Unread post by bware59 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:57 am

Are you saying the buildings didn't collapse? I was with you on much of your analysis regarding the planes, but I live in NYC and stood on my rooftop and watched the collapse (from the east village). No one I know saw any planes but I personally witnessed the buildings collapse and believe me that was real. I have no affiliation with news organizations or military of any kind.

reel.deal
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Re: "DEBUNK A SEPTEMBER CLUE!"

Unread post by reel.deal » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:06 am

the "videos" say "explode", you say "collapse"... what did YOU see.....?

Heiwa
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Re: "DEBUNK A SEPTEMBER CLUE!"

Unread post by Heiwa » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:35 am

bware59 wrote:Are you saying the buildings didn't collapse? I was with you on much of your analysis regarding the planes, but I live in NYC and stood on my rooftop and watched the collapse (from the east village). No one I know saw any planes but I personally witnessed the buildings collapse and believe me that was real. I have no affiliation with news organizations or military of any kind.
But did the skyscrapers 'collapse' from top down (as shown 'live on TV') or from bottom up? In latter case you couldn't see the destruction at ground level - only the intact upper part descending. What did you see?

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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:46 pm

Dear bware,

No. No one is saying the towers did not collapse. Please get up to speed with the research - and kindly introduce yourself as required for new forum members: http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 1&start=45 Thanks!

I'm most interested in hearing - hopefully with the most extensive degree of detail - what you witnessed from your rooftop that day. Please feel free to include every possible recollection of your visual experience - even regarding matters which may seem of little significance to you.

Also, if you did not carry a camera yourself that morning, you may recall someone who did? Possibly a friend or co-worker up on that rooftop? In this case, any photographic material you may be able to collect and publish on this forum would be very highly appreciated.

hoi.polloi
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:38 pm

Yes - surely in the amount of time the towers were collapsing before your eyes, you were excited enough to avoid putting a camera viewfinder in front of your naked eyeball to capture the view for future posterity rather than be terribly shocked by the whole event and want to take it in with your own eyes.

And if not - if you were calm and within seconds managed to get a picture or video - please try to separate your memory from your picture recording because no picture recording ever released about 9/11 has yet shown reality in it and we wouldn't want you to taint your own memory by thinking your pictures went undoctored or somehow released to the public. If you are here to claim one of the doctored footages or any kind of 9/11 recording that matches your experience, who did you show it to? Where is it available? Do you work for any professional news agency? Media corporation? Most camera witnesses apparently did. Which we find rather dubious for the official story.

If you are legitimate, you probably didn't get any picture or video, did you? And therefore, you don't have much in the way of evidence, do you?

If you appreciate the gravity of such a coordinated, documentation-destroying effort as that which would be required to carry out an operation on this scale with no public evidence, and still believe you retained an untainted memory of the event, uncorrupted by the vast media propaganda that tells us impossible things happened, your physics-friendly description of what "went down" (as it were) would be the most valuable thing you could share. Thanks.

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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by SmokingGunII » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:03 pm

Two more to add to the list:

Christian Martin (NBC) married to Elizabeth Cole (NBC Dateline editor)
Martin covering the event for NBC bought a camera from a tourist on the street and recorded the collapse of the south tower while standing near its base. ;)

Shachar Bar-Un (NBC dateline Producer)

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/ ... wsignin1.0


Just how many TV people were in Manhattan that day with a camera to hand? :blink:

maiklasLTU
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by maiklasLTU » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:44 pm

I still don't understand this. There are milions of people in new york. SOME ONE RELIABLE HAD TO SEE SOMETHING and just shout it out about this hoax. Even if it was for example: military grade smoke around the towers. Sorry, but someone just had to see what happend or AT LEAST what DID NOT happen on this damn event and post it here or somewhere else.

reel.deal
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Re: The "There were thousands of witnesses" myth

Unread post by reel.deal » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:59 am

Image
hoi.polloi wrote:Wow - the upper-right 3 columns actually *repair themselves* on the way down to the Marriot. I guess they're getting dressed up to enter the hotel lobby?
SmokingGunII wrote:Two more to add to the list:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/ ... wsignin1.0

Just how many TV people were in Manhattan that day with a camera to hand? :blink:
Well, just how much photoshopping was going on at the "WTC2 COLLAPSE" ?
first we had the SELF-REPAIRING COLUMNS, now we get the fully-formed FLYING COLLOSEUM... :blink:
which i had naively presumed was the apparent remaining base... ?!? ...of WTC2 ? ...or WTC 1, even ?
doesnt seem to make much difference which tower anymore somehow, its all so photoshopped to shit...

Image

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