THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda
simonshack
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:34 pm

*

Source of image A: http://surgiu.com.br/noticia/68359/mais ... maria.html

Source of image B: http://noticias.terra.com.br/brasil/cid ... aRCRD.html

Image

Image

DISCLAIMER: I am totally at a loss as to why this fire tragedy would be faked in any way - and no, I have no working theory going at this time. All I'm doing is asking myself why there would be ANY absurd imagery connected with this event. I honestly dread the thought that this is some new, non-terrorism-related psyop. Yet...do I (or anyone) actually prefer to think that those 245 kids ("most between 16 and 20 years of age", we are told) really died? I think not.

Flabbergasted
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:24 pm

Indeed, it is strange. In general, the night-time pictures from the street in front of the nightclub are a bit too colorful for my taste (reminds me of "Miami Vice"), whereas the daytime pictures appear genuine, with familiar scenarios, situations and countenances. I have been too busy to look further into it, but as soon as I get a free moment I will catch up.

In any case, there is a lot of poor reporting out there. I just read an article in NY Times with several silly or nonsensical observations:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/world ... .html?_r=0
As hundreds of people around her in the crowded nightclub began to dance, she saw something shoot from the stage toward the ceiling: a flare.
“No one cared because they always do that, to make us dance a little harder,” said Ms. Louzeiro, 32, a saleswoman at a clothing store...
But when she looked up, she saw that the ceiling was on fire. “I started screaming, and thought, ‘When it’s your time to go, it is God who decides,’ ” she said.
The tumult produced desperate cries for assistance that are still echoing on social media. “Fire at KISS help,” wrote Michele Cardoso, a 20-year-old student, in a post on Facebook that has resonated across the nation. Her friends frantically replied to the post, which appeared to be delayed from when the fire was said to have been ignited. She died in the blaze, along with her boyfriend, João Paulo Pozzobon.
So she died in the middle of a blaze (and a stampede) while posting on Facebook!?
The tragedy that unfolded next [...] has stunned a nation where the current attitude has typically been one of confidence and satisfaction after nearly a decade of robust economic activity.
So because inflation has been under control for the past 10 years, we should not expect nightclubs to catch fire? No wonder people lift an eyebrow when they read this sort of rubbish!

As an aside, regarding the "245?" message in the graffiti, a friend of mine pointed out Article 245 (Law #7.251, of 1984) which states that it is a crime "to place one's child under 18 years of age into the care of a person in whose company the parent knows, or ought to know, the minor will be morally or materially in danger". It may not be the reason for the message, but it appears there were many minors in the nightclub that night. Similar nightclubs in my area will let minors in if in the company of someone over 18 who is presumed responsible! Sounds safe, doesn't it? <_<

Simon, I am not sure I get the point with the "during fire/next morning façade" comparison. I think I need an additional hint.

simonshack
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:44 pm

Flabbergasted wrote: Simon, I am not sure I get the point with the "during fire/next morning façade" comparison. I think I need an additional hint.
Dear Flabbergatsed,

I will gladly submit an additional hint:

Image

upstream
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:21 am

It's the concrete behind the wood panel. It was imprinted by the wood panel upon installation. Hence similar looking texture.

Colour change could have been a result from wetting the surface.

Image

Reasonable?

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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:31 am

upstream wrote:
Reasonable?
Or risible, perhaps?

upstream
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:06 am

What do you find "risible" about my post?

Farcevalue
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by Farcevalue » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:02 am

I have not looked into, nor have any opinion on this fire, but just to play devil's advocate: If I were a perp, I would take every opportunity to manipulate and distort images of documented, verifiable events. If there were a plethora of real events with real witnesses that had bits of digital manipulation mixed in at random, it would make it that much harder to point out the obvious fakery in the fake events.

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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:22 pm

upstream wrote:What do you find "risible" about my post?
The apparent seriousness of its contention that a grey-blueish cement wall may veer to dark brown when sprayed with water.

Image
(My heavily RGB-toggled, photoshopped version of your above wet cement wall sample)
Farcevalue wrote:I have not looked into, nor have any opinion on this fire, but just to play devil's advocate: If I were a perp, I would take every opportunity to manipulate and distort images of documented, verifiable events. If there were a plethora of real events with real witnesses that had bits of digital manipulation mixed in at random, it would make it that much harder to point out the obvious fakery in the fake events.
I hear you, Farcevalue - and I fully share your thoughts. In fact, I have kept this possibility (of perp-diffused imagery being released to poison 'our' well) firmly in my mind as I went along this past couple of days examining the bulk of available imagery from this event. However, there are many aspects / issues / angles to consider here - and I will elaborate about it all in my next post.

upstream
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:06 pm

OK, fine. For the sake of argument, it's photoshopped. OK.

What do you believe happened then? Do you believe that that entire picture is a fabrication? Why would they photoshop this event? Is it a mix of real and fake? Is this another CGI event? There was no fire? Are the victims fake? Are the victim families actors? Please elaborate because I don't see what your overall point is.

resolution
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by resolution » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:33 pm

Insurance scam most likely. Life insurance, property damage, business continuity. These events have to profit someone, or they don't happen.

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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:33 am

*
KISS QUESTIONS

As stated in my above DISCLAIMER (see my first post on top of this page), I don't have any sort of working theory of what happened / or didn't happen at the KISS disco in Brazil, on January 27. All I'll be doing here is to ask legitimate questions related to the photographic record of the event. If I had lost a Brazilian friend (I have a few) in that fire and attended his/her funeral, I would STILL be raising these questions. After a few days of steady searching, I have not been able to find all that many images of the event, something which I find a bit odd - considering that roughly 1500 people supposedly got out alive & unharmed from that disco fire. But let me first list a few figures:

Confirmed dead: 245 (for numerologists =11) [Note: there still seems to be lots of 'confusion' around the final death toll.]
Confirmed wounded / hospitalized: 117 (for numerologists =9)
Reported number of people inside the disco that night: approx 2000 (twice the club's stated capacity)

So my first question would be: where are all those survivors' photos of the event itself? So far, it seems there are only about a few dozen (generously speaking) uploaded online. Anyways, let us check out some of them and see what they depict.

Here are two very rare 'amateur' images, allegedly from inside the KISS disco before the fire set off. Quite frankly, they both look awfully artificial and 'plastic' to me - certainly not any sort of casual snapshots captured on the fly:

Image
Image
source: http://kadajnetonews.blogspot.it/2013/0 ... boate.html

Here are two ('artistically' tilted) shots showing survivors in front of the KISS club. They appear to be clean, relaxed and none the worse for wear, chatting about, holding beer cans and hugging each other (and showing off their underwear) while an ugly smokeplume gushes out from the main (and only) discotheque entrance/exit :

Image
Image

Now, does the above look like some disaster area involving 2000 people - some of them roasting/choking to death inside that disco? Where are the firefighters (which reportedly promptly arrived within minutes of the alarm)? Well, we do have these three shots of the same firefighter in the same pose - from different angles - spraying water on an invisible fire. But that is about it, as far as the KISS DISCO firefighting imagery is concerned:
Image

Here's a dreadful frame from CNN. How such piss-poor imagery can even exist today is beyond belief:
Image

And shouldn't we have plenty of rescue teams and ambulances here? Are we to believe that Brazil is some sort of retrograde, under-developed "third-world" nation in the middle of nowhere? Well, here's an image showing three guys haplessly carrying a victim around, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KISS DISCO ENTRANCE! Where are the other 1500 survivors who just escaped from the fire? (Note the large pool of blood to the left - or is it tomato sauce?) :

Image

Allright, here's another image showing a small group RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KISS DISCO ENTRANCE. Yes, we see an ambulance and a fire engine there, but again, does this look like a site where 1500 people have just escaped from that burning discotheque? I can count 18 people in this picture - and the photographer seems to have plenty of room to compose his remarkably well-lit shot of that ONE particular victim lying on the ground:

Image


Now, here's an image of the aftermath of the tragedy. At upper left, we have three buildings, marked "A", "B" and "C" :

Image


Here's an image grabbed from a CNN video, from a slightly different angle. Where is building "C" ?

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The problem is, Brazilian TV showed THIS aerial view of the KISS DISCO - and its surrounding buildings. Clearly, the sloped roofline of building "B" extends all the way to the edge of the building - unlike the above images suggest :

Image

FIRE DAMAGE: That Brazilian TV aerial shot also shows that the largest fire damage of the KISS DISCO occured just above the location of the windows "A, B, C" - as marked below. How then, can we see those soot-less, uncharred interiors (featuring pristine woodwork and plastic beer cases) ?

Image

Moreover, what exactly is going on here, on this CNN video? The colors of the various parts of the KISS DISCO façade are all off by a mile (beyond any plausible excuse) - and we have those sharp soot stripes...
Image

...which are nowhere to be seen on other images of the post-fire scenery:
Image

Here follow 4 images inside of the KISS DISCO which apparently caught fire (in the ceiling) causing the death of 245 people. The question is: are the conditions of this club (ceiling and all) consistent with the official account?

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Image
Image
Image

The Brazilian press has released two maps of the KISS DISCO. Unfortunately, they are dramatically inconsistent and cannot agree either on the club's layout/architecture - or even about WHERE THE FIRE INITIATED! ("inìcio do incêndio")
MAP1 :
Image
MAP2:
Image

We then have a handful of "graphic", awfully blurry / gory pictures of charred bodies - supposedly snapped at the KISS DISCO. However, do any of these images contain any indications that these images were snapped inside the KISS DISCO?

Image
Image
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[st]Is it just a coincidence that one of these rare images resembles another old disco-tragedy in BALI (blamed on AL-QAEDA?)[/st]
(EDIT: thank you, Upstream - for pointing out dubious sources of upper image in red-framed comparison below. My bad. This would mean, I suppose, that there exist no images of bodies inside the KISS discotheque.)
Image
(Dubious sources mentioned above:)
http://www.luiscardoso.com.br/politica/
http://sobradoemfoco.blogspot.it/2013/0 ... os-na.html
http://www.itabunaurgente.com/2013/01/i



Do we have lamestream media interviews with attractive female eyewitnesses/ survivors of this event? Yes we do:

We have this blonde girl - who says her survival was "a birthday gift". A real survivor or an actress?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9lqf0jYO0

We also have "Pamella Vedovotto" (Vedovotto translates as "little widower" in Italian). A real survivor or an actress?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ia1bJ11Rg

I should probably stop here. Ok, so I'll believe that this KISS event was wholly real - if you wish me to.
I've tried my best to Keep It Simple, Stupid. I'm off to bed now. Nighty nighty! :)

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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:20 am

.
Last edited by upstream on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

upstream
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:27 am

Confirmed dead: 245 (for numeroligists =11)
Confirmed wounded / hospitalized: 117 (for numerologists =9)
Reported number of people inside the disco that night: approx 2000 (twice the club's stated capacity)
Source(s) for these numbers?
upstream wrote:
Image
What's your source(s) which claims the top photo is from the KISS Brazil fire?

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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by simonshack » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:43 am

upstream wrote: Source(s) for these numbers?
What's your source which claims the top photo is from the KISS Brazil fire?
Image
"245 Confirmed Dead In Nightclub Fire In Brazil"
http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/26 ... tclub-Fire



Image
117 treated in hospitals
"Federal Health Minister Alexandre Padhilha told a news conference that most of the 117 people treated in hospitals had been poisoned by gases they breathed during the fire. Only a few suffered serious burns, he said."
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_ ... commented-


CONCERNING THE CHARRED CORPSES IMAGE:

Fight it out with Luìs Cardoso.. <_<
http://www.luiscardoso.com.br/politica/ ... ou-o-pais/

...or with ITABUNAURGENTE:
http://www.itabunaurgente.com/2013/01/i ... santa.html

upstream
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Re: THE KISS DISCO - Brazil - January 27, 2013

Unread post by upstream » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:48 am

simonshack wrote:
Image
"245 Confirmed Dead In Nightclub Fire In Brazil"
http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/26 ... tclub-Fire



Image
117 treated in hospitals
"Federal Health Minister Alexandre Padhilha told a news conference that most of the 117 people treated in hospitals had been poisoned by gases they breathed during the fire. Only a few suffered serious burns, he said."
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_ ... commented-
lol, the numbers in these articles contradict each other and somehow this is numerology "evidence"? If the numbers were consistent among all mainstream news you MAY have something. But this is quite weak. You're better than this.
CONCERNING THE CHARRED CORPSES IMAGE:

Fight it out with Luìs Cardoso.. <_<
http://www.luiscardoso.com.br/politica/ ... ou-o-pais/

...or with ITABUNAURGENTE:
http://www.itabunaurgente.com/2013/01/i ... santa.html
Wouldn't using sources from mainstream news outlets be more appropriate, Simon? C'mon...

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