NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.

NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on July 13th, 2015, 8:56 pm

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NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY
"Discredit By Association": the oldest trick in the mind-control book

Dear Cluesforum readers and contributors,

I think it is high time for us to react / address and call out the current, escalating yet all-too-transparent "DBA-strategy" (Discredit By Association) adopted by NASA's propaganda dept - clearly designed for damage control: NASA has by now been roundly exposed as a total fraud - and, of course, they weren't going to just sit back and let a growing number of honest / legitimate grass-root researchers "lead" the fledgling 'NASA truth movement' (for lack of a better term - *sigh*) and tranquilly diffuse their findings to the general public - in any sort of snowballing / or unimpeded fashion.

What NASA has rolled out is a carefully planned and coordinated, 'viral' DBA / co-opting campaign centered on the 'Flat Earth' meme and - I will hastily add - (with respect to those who may honestly entertain alternative cosmic models of their own) this fact should be clear as day to anyone, regardless of whether you reckon we live on a globe, a cube, a pancake or a Wiener würstel. The point being, it is by now painfully obvious that the objective of this NASA-campaign is to associate & equate (in the general public's psyche) anyone questioning NASA to mentally challenged / raving crackpots:

Tim: "Hey, Joe - did you watch that NASA rocket launch last night on TV? Heck - there was 'CGI' written all over it!"

Joe: "Omg, Tim... Taken your meds lately? Duh, I bet you also believe the earth is flat? HA HA HA! "


In the last half-decade or so, I will proudly point out, no research community that I know of has contributed as much - or worked as hard - as Cluesforum to inflict the afore-mentioned damage to NASA's credibility. I think we owe it to ourselves - and to our vast body of research and findings (representing untold hours of collective efforts over the years) - not to just sit back and watch this latest NASA mind-twisting game playing out - and snowballing in unimpeded fashion. Not that I have any idea / or magic recipe as how to counteract the mighty NASA propaganda machine - but at least I wish to make my stance very clear on this issue.

Admittedly - and so far - I have myself mostly just lazily sat back and watched this flat-u-lent scheme unfolding - quietly cringing at the apparent 'success' of it all. Then again, what sort of 'failure' could one possibly expect from ANY government-backed / NASA-budgeted propaganda operation? I have to say, though - even if it hurts - that the Nutwork is getting noticeably better / smarter at casting their (supposed "random-grassroot-John-Does-like-you-and-I") gatekeeping characters. Their steadily-growing / mushrooming team of "Flat-Earth-Experts-cum-Nasa-Bashers" is manned (with a few exceptions - such as the crude Dave Weiss clown) by reasonably intelligent-sounding, well-spoken individuals whom you might mistake for (with a little imagination) truly sincere & well-meaning proponents of the flat earth theory. Mind you - and on the other hand - their unfailingly / overly-slick videos "à-là-Ace Baker" give them away for what they are, but this clue may be lost to the casual viewer of their supposed 'amateur' (audio and video) media productions.

I won't list here any of the 'well-spoken' entities right now - as my intent with this post is only to generally address this transparent DBA operation and to voice my concern about the fact that - unfortunately - some otherwise smart people I know of appear to have fallen for it - at one level or another (if not exactly hook, line and sinker).

However, I can't resist to share with everyone this lame - yet wholly expected (by yours truly) - development of the increasingly desperate NASA damage-control efforts. It's a video by one 'David Ridlen' - who appropriately describes himself as a "Professor of Pixel Poo" on his Youtube channel. Please note that the ONLY TWO "related YT channels" listed there - are those of "Eric Dubay" and "Jeranism" (two active flat earth proponents - whom Mr David Ridlen is supposedly 'working against'!...) If you can't muster to watch this whole thing, let me just tell you what it's all about: Mr Ridlen, the "Pixel Poo professor", is quite bluntly - lo and behold - EQUATING THE FLAT EARTH BELIEVERS WITH THE NASA DISBELIEVERS :

"Flat Earth & NASA Hoax Debunk SLAMDUNK" - by 'David Ridlen'

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzeGRFDIms



And oh - btw - here's the sort of "Pixel Poo" that Mr Ridlen produces ... in his 'spare time': :rolleyes:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feTdAq8EpQ



And for those may bother to realize what sort of 'truthseekers' we are up against, here's the 'touching personal profile' of a late (yet already hyperactive) entry to the "Flat-Earth-Experts-cum-Nasa-Bashers" team, namely the afore-mentioned 'Jeranism' - who put up his Youtube account in February of this year:

jeranism wrote:"The level of deception that has been perpetrated on the public is nothing short of disgusting. As a former Catholic who broke free to become an atheist, I saw both sides and saw that both are stuck in their dogmatic beliefs and both are guilty of no longer thinking for themselves. I am different. I have learned throughout my life that you should never, ever listen to humans. They lie, distort, deceive and confuse and all for self profit. I have been studying for 4 years and I've finally started to see through the deception by opening my eyes. So now I try and teach what I know. The world is full of so called "intellectuals" who are nothing more than parrots who repeat whatever science says with no thought of their own. Spreading lies is disgusting and I blame NASA most of all. They have stolen our tax dollars, told lies and concealed the truth. Hoping to find others like me as I attempt to bring down these Luciferian fools, known worldwide, as NASA."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS_FY5 ... _ExQ/about


To those who might still be a bit confused (I don't blame them!) : YES, those 'flat earthers' APPEAR to do the right thing - i.e. denouncing the Grand NASA Scam. Yet this is ex-ac-tly what NASA wants: to associate people who believe the earth is flat with those denouncing NASA. As it is, NASA desperately needs to "lead" - i.e. to stay on top of the ever-so-slooooowly-surging wave of public realization / awakening - and to control their own, inevitable downfall - so as to postpone it as long as possible. To ensure the longest possible timespan for their ongoing mass deception, they are counting on squeezing every last drop of human gullibility available on this Earth. Geddit?

Do you get it? :huh:
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on July 14th, 2015, 12:21 am

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FOR THE NASA-DOWNFALL HISTORY BOOKS :

I just wish to state - for the historical record - that as I started to look into the GRAND NASA SCAM back in 2009 or so, I was able to find one - and only one - article on the entire worldwide web questioning the ISS - by one amateur astronomer, 'Alexander'. Here's the original link to it : http://www.webspawner.com/users/shuttlehoax/

... although, as you can see, it is now gone. However, the article can still be found on this 'Club Conspiracy' website:
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/sho ... php?t=8084

At the time, I could also find one - and only one - Youtube channel questioning the modern-day NASA "exploits" - by one ArcAngel4Myke.
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/user/ArcAngel4Myke/videos

Unfortunately, I see that ArcAngelMyke already has that "Jeranism" (mentioned in my above post) as a 'related channel' - but that may not mean anything, as far as ArcAngel's sincerity / legitimacy is concerned. After all, "Jeranism" is exposing NASA, isn't he? <_<

All this to say that - back in 2009 / 2010 - there were very nearly ZERO critiques to be found of NASA's modern-day purported space exploits (of course, I am excluding the ol' Apollo hoax - of which lots of material was widely circulating - and has been ever since the great Bill Kaysing dared speak out about it). Due credit goes to the fearless individuals of this world. To be sure, today (and only 5/6 years on), there is now a very large - and growing - number of Youtube videos (for better or worse, Youtube simply is the only / internationally-known "on-demand-TV-station" accessible to private citizens / video makers) denouncing the modern-day NASA fakery in one way or another. Now, I suppose that we - here at Cluesforum, what with our relentless efforts over this half-decade to expose the Grand NASA Scam - should rejoice about this fact. However - and this is a BIG "however", if you do a cursory review of these many new NASA-denouncing videos - you will see that MOST of them are associated to the 'flat earther' meme. This is, in any case, what I've been seeing so far - but I can't say I've done a proper statistic about this as yet.

Just saying.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Selene on July 14th, 2015, 4:11 am

Simon,

two points:

1 - I consider the GBA (Guilty By Association) and related DBA (Discredit By Association) strategies (that's what they are) a foolish and senseless path to follow. An ever-exhausting turmoil where your individual rights to think freely and differently are trampled upon. It's a fallacy, a diversion tactic. It has no philosophical base. Every thought and individual is unique. Every thought should thus be individually addressed.

Example: Joe thinks man landed on the Moon but is a devoted media hoax researcher and warns the sheeple about the banking frauds and Tim is thinking no space travel is possible and the Earth is flat


Joe gets my support in the media hoax corner and I will try to convince him of the impossibility of his standpoint on the Moon.
Tim I will stand with and fight for the reasonable position that mankind cannot leave this planet (at least not with 2015 known technology) and if he's open to it try to convince him to see the flaws in his Flat Earth bullcrap.

I fear to demand a 100% orthodox all fakery (and heliocentrity, evolution, etc. MUST be all wrong as well) position from anyone around you would be a Tantalian torture upon yourself and will not "Get The Word Out" (still an own topic here...).

Not only is this utopian "we all agree" world impossible, it is also harmful. Isn't the manufactured focus on non-merited authority inflicted consent one of our main enemies?? - spot the numerous oxymorons; the intrinsic philosophical flaw of the whole thing

2 - The second point is the self-fulfilling prophecy you see in your second post. Isn't holding the Flat Earth idea against someone not performing the discredit by association strategy yourself?

Why not separate the spheres (point 1) or abstain from doing the same to those people (point 2).

In proper reasoning; you lose your argument about "DBA" if you do the same to the ones you try to attack with proper arguments.

Flat Earth itself is too ridiculous a "theory" (not even a hypothesis I'd say. It's a childish fantasy) to properly address.

Let "Flat Earth Theorists" explain all the observations that are now explained with a (flattened) spherical Earth. How you want to achieve the puzzle of plate tectonics on a flat, ending "surface" I am curious to hear explained...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm5giPd5Uro

And if you "do not believe in plate tectonics", how come South America and Africa fit so well and earthquakes, uplift, Kalkalpen, volcanism, all the other geological, biological and other scientific questions, the list becomes rather endless...

Selene

PS: there seemed to be some DBA strategy in your response to me in the Moon hoax topic, but you well spotted this statement I missed, so I stand corrected and your disclaimer is important enough. Again, if you see the ~96+% new good content on Apollo vs that lone sentence I think the balance counts and DBA ("Jet Wintzer cannot be trusted because of that ISS sentence") is a strategy which would occlude information (the great additional points on Apollo stand our tests, not?)...
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Seneca on July 14th, 2015, 9:33 am

I don't think you are making a good comparison here, Selene. You seem to suggest that these flat earthers are just making honest mistakes. I think you are being naive, I think it is much more probable they are only pretending they believe in flat earth and that they are being paid to lie about it.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Selene on July 14th, 2015, 2:36 pm

Ha Seneca, thanks for bringing that up. I used to be naive as I am not so used to the collection of shills like so many here, like I said; before reading here, I didn't even know the word. Let me try to explain it a bit better; Simon especially attributed the Discredit By Assiociation (DBA) to professional strategists.

Ok, let's say that Joanna Timson is the shill/paid person to perform this DBA strategy. She makes a list of various V2 videos or ISS bubble bath bits and in the same videos the Flat Earth Scam (FES) is promoted.


1 - by letting the good content being spoilt by the FES bits, you apply the same strategy to yourself; you don't separate the decent contributions and let's assume proper reasoning (otherwise a reasonable and critical person skips on to the next vid, see below) from the bullcrap and let yourself be dragged into that trap, strategically put out in front of your eyes. I am inclined to say that willingly getting yourself dragged into that trap would be a tad naive...?

2 - Because of the silliness of the FES it is not a strong strategy. Any reasonable person with basic physical knowledge and astronomical interest who is listening to this vids, will not take FES seriously. The chance that heeps of people who investigate the space scams perpetrated by NASA now will fall into the sweetened siren trap of Flat Earth would be very low, just because the 'theory' is so ridiculous.

That these strategies are played out in discussions is of course true and that is done in various ways. Just a few examples from my own experience:
- "You don't believe in Antropogenic Global Warming, what, you deny science?" *
- "You don't believe the official story on 9/11, you think Elvis didn't die (in 1977)?"
- "You don't believe man landed on the Moon, you think the Earth is flat as well?" **
- "You believe in conspiracy theories, you are a creationist!" ***

DBA is a strategy, a tactic, a posture, it's not an argument. It's a waste of energy, troll behaviour, power play.

To fall into this trap (or rather let you dragged into it) by either acknowledging it as an answer or by committing to it yourself I think is the real danger.

The problem I see in Simons recognition of this strategy around is there. So I am happy he opened the topic in that sense.

What FES is doing is poisoning the well of information. Indeed if professional entities are there on YouTube to create en masse videos where FES is dispersed into the other content, the aforementioned "smart and critical YT viewers" would switch off and go to the next video. Missing the good content in there.

But also here, I think it's a problem only if you make it one:
- if the FEScammer is a fake entity, a shill, a troll, a poisoner, a demonic being, his or her other information won't be of much true value
- if the FEScammer is a real person who foolishly fell for that sh*t, his/her other work in the same video may be of true value, but how YT works is that those fragments can be taken out of the video and represented in a new one, thus separating the poison from the fruit again

The information war is all around, and we're all dragged into it, no escape, but I think staying true to philosophical principles and proper use of content (being critical and if you really want cutting the fine meat out and repost them again) does keep both professional shills and nasty private trolls with their silly DBA strategies away.

Selene

The tid bits trolls excrete are only problematic if you take them seriously. Don't.

* a very insulting phrase; science is the answer to this politised scam where people make money trading a gas we all breath and strive on. "CO2 pollution" screams the BBC, for any person with some biological and geological insights it's an obvious set of lies, but to the people who want this to be true and other perps it's an easy play on the completely uninformed public
** long before the current strategy I think Simon recognises very well I've heard such a response once or twice. I wasn't bothered about it; it only discredits the shouter.
*** here the problem becomes funny. I think this attack is dirty but here on Cluesforum with a variety of members it wouldn't hurt. Intelligent Design/Creationism is in essence the belief that some intelligent deity created/designed life and not that it spawned due to environmental factors and evolved by the same. So if indeed the DBA is correct, and it should be followed, then it would apply here.

If I refer someone to Cluesforum, a geologist or biologist friend, because I want him or her to learn about the many hoaxes around, maybe start with Apollo or 9/11 or Sandy Hook as easy starting points, and the site considers Creationism as valid as Apollo = Hoax, then that person may well execute this DBA strategy and not return reading here.

As I think the DBA strategy is foolish to follow, that's not the main reason I object to the positioning of the Dino "Hoax" topic next to other topics of much more elaborated status.

It is a matter of weight and recognition of decent work performed here. If you make checklists on the various topics and then which points (vicsims, images, photos, data, connections, physical flaws, simwitnesses, simfamilies, actors, lying, modus operandi, etc. etc. etc.) are addressed, many topics are well elaborated; most angles have been treated, so your basket of arguments against the official story is well filled. For the Dino "Hoax" topic that is a bit different. It cannot stand the same tests like so many other topics of that size.
Fine to have and see the discussion, but imo it would belong in a "musings about Earth" category or so.

Not because of DBA, but because you honour your good research and self respect Dino Hoax really is an untested hypothesis which needs much more volume to be taken as seriously as the work on 9/11, Sandy, Boston, Nuke Hoax, Space Hoaxes and other, smaller, but pretty unique for the internet hoaxes like Titanic, Costa Concordia or Breivik (again; before reading here I never heard anyone around me doubting that story :blink: )
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby John bin Gustave on July 15th, 2015, 3:41 am

Post #2

This thread reminds me of another on this forum in which I had intended to post my thoughts. I have not been able to find it but in that thread, the central point of contention appeared to be the matter of what does cluesforum exist for? What is its purpose? If members have differing conceptions of what cluesforum ought to exist for then naturally they will disagree about how it should be operated. I had intended to post in that thread something along the lines of:

'I have contributed nothing to this forum directly and so I offer this as somewhat of an outsider's perspective. I have spent countless hours, often well into the morning, reading through all kinds of threads, from space fakery to dinosaur fakery to Breivik fakery. I will likely never be able to properly thank the contributors for collectively constructing such a wealth of facts and ideas, well-organised for somebody like me to spend as much time as he wishes exposing himself to new ways of thinking. All I could hope is that whichever moderation policy is enacted into the future, it will most effectively ensure that people who are early in their journey for truth will find the site to be the treasure of information and open discussion I found it to be.'

As coincidence(?) would have it, what I term the 'Neo Flat Earth' (NFE) phenomenon took hold of the 'independent'/'truthseeking' sector of the internet just as I was getting into fakeologist and cluesforum. I now host the Ball Earth Skeptic Roundtable every Wednesday, and expect to continue to do so through the end of the first season (perhaps another few weeks). This will naturally lead to some suspicions about my motivations for being here on cluesforum in the first place, and I take no offense if such suspicions are openly aired here or elsewhere. Within the youtube 'truth community' I have already been attacked as a 'Jesuit-trained CIA shill sent to discredit the truth community', a 'flat earther pretending to be on the fence', and a 'ball earther pretending to be a flat earther'. Such is life for the true skeptic.

Getting back on topic, there is no doubt in my mind that some of the leading NFEs are compromised. Which figures are legitimate truth seekers, and which figures are here to distract/divert/discredit everybody else? I don't know for sure but I have my own suspicions. By being able to invite NFEs onto my show and ask them questions, I feel I have one of the best vantage points to discern not only which information is credible but which proponents offering this information are legitimately about seeking and spreading truth. In the meantime, I hope that the questions I ask NFEs and the responses they give will assist others in making these judgements for themselves.

Is it possible that NASA (and related bodies) have decided to engage in a 'discredit by association' strategy as outlined by Simon in this thread? Of course. Is it possible that TPTB are genuinely surprised and afraid of the speed with which the NFE phenomenon is sweeping the internet, and are thus engaging in a strategy of FUD to scare people into believing NFE is about discrediting other research? Of course. Other possibilities abound.

The fascinating thing about NFE research is that it leads one to recognising that the entire 'scientific' establishment is an utter fraud. Would NASA risk the reputation of all of 'science' in order to protect NASA/'space' by themselves pushing the NFE phenomenon? Possible. But what a gamble! What a risk! The youtube 'truth community' might only number in the thousands, and the legitimate researchers within that 'community' might only number in the hundreds, but they are now being exposed to critiques of things as elementary as the 'theory of gravity' by people like myself who profess no belief in any recognised religion. The tremendous work that was being done by cluesforum is now being exposed to a whole new audience, an audience comprised of individuals who (generally) are not as inclined to read mountains of text and respond in kind. And make no mistake: presenters like myself are then encouraging listeners/watchers to go to places like cluesforum and see the kind of thorough, independent research which has already been done and is ongoing. A genuine feedback loop whereby youtubers become cluesforumists and vice versa would be something to behold.

If NASA believes the small pocket of the internet we find ourselves in is important enough to discredit via elaborate plots (which seems more than likely to me), then why would they not be concerned about indirectly (and in many cases directly) encouraging that same pocket to challenge the 'scienctific' myths which predate NASA itself? It seems like cutting off ones nose to spite ones face. In some ways I find myself hoping that this is what is going on, that NASA is behind some of the leading NFEs. If so it suggests to me that they are not in control of the situation and the spread of ideas, when I had in the past resigned myself to the apparent reality that TPTB were in complete control and had nothing to fear from the masses.

I have more thoughts to add but this post is already long enough. I thank anybody who took the time to read through it all and especially those who respond. These are just my opinions and as the past six months have shown, my opinions are subject to change when new evidence is put before me. Which is, I would have thought, one of the basic precepts of taking part in a forum like this.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Ataraxia on July 15th, 2015, 4:57 am

simonshack wrote:I just wish to state - for the historical record - that as I started to look into the GRAND NASA SCAM back in 2009 or so, I was able to find one - and only one - article on the entire worldwide web questioning the ISS - by one amateur astronomer, 'Alexander'. Here's the original link to it : http://www.webspawner.com/users/shuttlehoax/

... although, as you can see, it is now gone. However, the article can still be found on this 'Club Conspiracy' website:
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/sho ... php?t=8084


It’s interesting that in post #134 of that thread, one poster attempts to dismiss the whole thing by saying: “I stopped reading when the flat earth society was mentioned as a reference... They think the earth is flat, why would you use them as an example...” Everything old is new again. Nothing has really ever changed with their techniques to discredit people asking questions.

It’s also interesting that the first response in that thread is from a new poster, (all of whose other posts are in that thread.) That poster (Astronut) seems to respond only for the sake of arguing over every statement made, and to prevent anybody else from agreeing with the initial post. Absurdly, that Astronut character claims to have seen the ISS multiple times, he’s been to landings of the space shuttle, he watched the Challenger disaster from his front lawn, and friends of his acquired pieces of the Challenger debris from the ocean floor (this last claim is made in post 51). What are the chances that likely the only person in the world who has had all these supposed experiences is also then the first person to respond to the thread? How is that believable at all?

Another new poster shows up at post 97 and claims to not only have seen a satellite fall from the sky and crash on someone’s house, but he states that his uncle helped build a satellite called Metro One and he was present when the thing was launched. This is all mixed in, of course, with a dozen new posters in the thread criticizing the points being raised, not unlike the Oslo killings thread here at Cluesforum. To me, the fakeness of these posters has always been the self-evident proof that there’s some sort of network responsible for creating them. The recent and sudden explosion of the flat earth stuff all over Youtube is more proof of this, since only the media has the means to push this forward to the point where everybody involved is now talking about it.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on July 15th, 2015, 10:27 am

Ataraxia wrote:Absurdly, that Astronut character claims to have seen the ISS multiple times, he’s been to landings of the space shuttle, he watched the Challenger disaster from his front lawn, and friends of his acquired pieces of the Challenger debris from the ocean floor (this last claim is made in post 51). What are the chances that likely the only person in the world who has had all these supposed experiences is also then the first person to respond to the thread? How is that believable at all?


Oh yes, Ataraxia - we are quite familiar with that 'Astronut' character - aka Scott Ferguson.

Mr 'Astronut' joined Cluesforum back in 2012, he submitted a good 49 posts - and ended up threatening Hoi Polloi with a lawsuit:

Astronut wrote: (...) "Either show up to Chiefland and prove that I am lying or shut up. Your choice. If you chose neither, then please provide your name and address so that I may file a law suit against you."
viewtopic.php?p=2376385#p2376385


Imagine that - what a 'honor'! To get sued by the dude being groomed by NASA to replace Stephen Hawking! :lol:

http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/NASA_greatest_fan/index_noaccess.html (Click the 'Home Away from Home by Scott' link)
Image

Video description: "NASA's Greatest Fan Video Contest Finalist: Scott Ferguson may just be the next Stephen Hawkings. His awe-inspiring image of the International Space Station -- captured from his own telescope -- punctuates his passion for space."

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJBQ4xiMFzA


*********
Btw, dear Ataraxia - thanks for pointing out something (extremely interesting) I had missed - regarding that very first (alleged) ISS-doubter, "Galexander"(apparently from "Bucks [Buckinghamshire], UK"). In his very first post on that thread, he writes:

"And incidentally members of The Flat Earth Society were able to independantly confirm the round shape of the ISS through telescopes."

Now - hold on a second. WHY ON EARTH would Galexander-the-very-first-ISS-doubter (back in 2009) mention such a silly thing?

Of course, 'Astronut' (from "Brandon, Florida - USA") then immediately retorts - with thinly veiled sarcasm :

"Well, regardless of what you say you saw or what a member of the flat earth society thinks they saw..."

and on page 6 of that CC thread:

"Right now all I have is you and your word that some idiot flat earther saw what you claim to have seen while tracking it telescopically."
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/sho ... php?t=8084

It's a friggin', ongoing UK > US DOG & PONY SHOW - and it looks like it already started back in 2009 ! :angry:

And with "NASA's next Stephen Hawking" involved - what more proof do we need that NASA is behind this FE charade?
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on July 16th, 2015, 2:25 am

GREAT post, Simon. Much needed to be said about this, and you finally spelled it out for everyone to read.

It's quite true (in my mind) that regardless of any logic within Earth science questions brought up by various people claiming to be interested in the topic, a huge portion — possibly even a majority — are posting on the topic, making videos and sites about the topic, and otherwise bringing it up to distract and discredit anything remotely resembling critical thinking. Perhaps it is a completely desperate strategy in the face of everyone asking too many questions of their world lately. Perhaps there is some "grand purpose". But I see it as a positive sign, honestly, that the only major "derailment" method they have to invest in lately — besides busybodies muddying posts and turning the conversation to personalities instead of facts — is to demonize the asking of questions that nobody knows the answer to.

Hey, don't ask that! Nobody knows the answer!

:lol:

Reminds me of an old quote I heard once. Something like, "Don't bother questioning authority. They don't know either."

"Flat Earth" is probably only targeted because it is used colloquially and ubiquitously as a foil. "Unicorns" also come to mind when one mentions Flat Earth.

At this point, those making these hoaxes are willing to pull out all the stops and use every little strategy available to make people make fun of creative thought. Is it like a war against art led by self-loathing or self-obsessed artists? Sometimes it seems so. Not to derail the conversation too much, but I think it's tied to this phenomenon. Art — good art — is supposed to help people realize and wake up to truths and discovery in, maybe, an emotionally respectful and safe way that honors people, humanity and the personhood of real individuals.

There is something else happening lately with all these hoaxes that can't or shouldn't really be classified as that sort of cultural "medicine" or practice. It's closer to a cold experiment and auto-removal of personhood (or respect) from the goal of the art and the artist; it's like a sort of 'anti-creation' goal, which sickens people and infects them with worry and stress. This is one of the reasons I identified the Vicsim as a kind of psychological tapeworm.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Undoctored on July 17th, 2015, 5:35 am

Just as “9/11 video fakery researcher and musician” Ace Baker had a mission to be confused with, distract from, and discredit Simon Shack in the realm of media fakery analysis, it strikes me that “realist painter, avant-garde cosmologist, political critic and humorist” Flat Earth proponent Matt Boylan has similarly been sent as a doppelgänger of Miles Mathis. Interesting to note that Mathis says he was pressured by numerous emails to address shape of the earth, resulting in his article on the subject, “The Earth Is Not Flat,” (also noted here) wherein he says pretty much what Simon is saying here:
Miles Mathis wrote:I am not sure why the Flat Earth is getting so much “alternative” press right now, but I have my suspicions.

My suspicion is that the campaign is being run specifically to target my readers and the readers of other people trying to tell the truth right now.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on August 29th, 2015, 3:24 pm

*
ALERT !

A MESSAGE TO CANADIAN (and other very Nordic) FLAT EARTHERS

If you are a 'flat earther' and live at very Nordic latitudes - such as for instance, Northern Canada, Northern Norway, Northern Russia or hey, even in Mr. Santa Claus's hometown - I would urge you ALL to urgently file a formal complaint with the United Nations ! Do it NOW - for the sake of your own illumination!

See, if the United Nations are withholding the 'flat earth truth' (while teasingly mocking you with that U.N. flag depicting their secretly concealed pancake-earth), there MUST be an ongoing conspiracy against ALL people living at those higher Northern latitudes. To be sure, it's a pretty damn dark & evil conspiracy too : the wicked bastards are - no less - depriving you of your god-given share of sunlight !!!

I took a cursory look at the flat earth map today - and noticed this awful / disturbing state of affairs (and yes, if you wish you may send me a little donation if you appreciate what I've just discovered - thank you very much!).

Alright, so let me explain: I chose the date of December 24 and the Southernmost little town in Argentina, USHUAIA, to verify just how much sunlight those (lucky) folks down there were getting at Christmas. Well, the result was shocking - to say the least:

In USHUAIA, they get as many as 17 - yes, 17+ hours of sunlight at Xmas time !
http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentin ... a?month=12

Aaand, how many hours of sunlight does, for instance, ALERT (in Canada) get? Three? Two? One? Naah - exactly ZERO !
"Down all day" > http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/alert?month=12

Image

That's a flat out rip-off ! Rebel, rebel - you Nordic flat earthers! ^_^

Seriously now :
Can the FE crowd please explain how USHUAIA (Argentina) can still see the Sun at 10pm on December 24 - while ALERT (Canada) gets ZERO sunlight on December 24 ?
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Xious on August 29th, 2015, 7:27 pm

At first, I didn't think people were serious about this "Flat Earth" thing but was surprised to find out that some of my friends even believed it.

I thought that I could easily show them the error of their theory by sending this video of the sun traveling along the horizon in the Antarctic but surprisingly enough ... no...

Description: This video shows a time lapse of the sun traveling along the horizon with a wrist watch to indicate the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc-WlTaG7WY

I was told that since it was produced by NASA, then it could not be trusted. Ok, fair enough... I spent some more time looking over other videos and was very impressed by this one:

Description: This is a 20 minute video that discusses what 3 different observers looking at the sun at different times of the day would see, including sunrise, high noon, and sunset. The compass direction that they need to be facing is noted and compared to a flat earth map which reveals that the point of view of the observers and the location of the sun do not coincide making it impossible for them to see the sun unless there were three different suns for each to observe. The same points of observation are then translated to a globe which matches the compass directions and the location of the sun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfiNq-__OiQ

Published on Aug 3, 2015

in order to make the flat earth work you need 3 Suns to match real world experience.
We start at 14:00 in Johannesburg and see where the sun is, and compare where it is at that particular time in Sydney and south Chili




This same author, M Goudsmits, points out in one of his other videos, that the "Flat Earthers" claim that the following video supports their beliefs:

Description: This is a moc-umentary from 1990 which was actually created to teach a class on "Critical Thinking".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH1XotarAXU


...which turns out to be rather humorous for obvious reasons after watching this video by M Goudsmits:

Description:
This is M Goudsmits review of the above documentary which reveals that the flat earthers didn't even realize that the moc-umentary was designed to teach a class on "Critical Thinking" which of course is ironic since the flat earthers accuse Globe Earthers of not being open minded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHXUBnxmaCI


If you have a friend who has fallen for the FE silliness then these "should" remedy the situation.
Last edited by Xious on August 30th, 2015, 1:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on August 29th, 2015, 10:49 pm

Xious, I appreciate your detailed suggestion. However, it isn't really a point that you have explained. Would you kindly describe what the videos explain and why you find them to be influential in the way it seems to you? Otherwise, we would be too permissive of a post that's just comprised of links.

Simon, I am sorry that I really do not understand what you are saying in your above post, even though I want to because it looks like it will be humorous when I do understand it. Could you please explain in slightly clearer language what you mean?
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on August 29th, 2015, 10:52 pm

This point in particular:

in order to make the flat earth work you need 3 Suns to match real world experience. We start at 14:00 in Johannesburg and see where the sun is, and compare where it is at that particular time in Sydney and south Chili


... deserves math.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Xious on August 29th, 2015, 11:40 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:Xious, I appreciate your detailed suggestion. However, it isn't really a point that you have explained. Would you kindly describe what the videos explain and why you find them to be influential in the way it seems to you? Otherwise, we would be too permissive of a post that's just comprised of links.

Simon, I am sorry that I really do not understand what you are saying in your above post, even though I want to because it looks like it will be humorous when I do understand it. Could you please explain in slightly clearer language what you mean?


Ok, I have made edits according to your request.
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