Satellites : general discussion and musings

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.

Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby lux on October 21st, 2014, 1:39 pm

An interesting analysis of a satellite sighting by a well-equipped amateur astronomer:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QikPlx2moNc
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby Roe77 on October 30th, 2014, 8:22 am

I would like to present to you the infamous 'Tate satellite' http://www2.tate.org.uk/space/webcam.htm

The satellite is orbiting at approx 400km from earth in a polar to polar orbit. The satellite orbits earth every 92.56 mins. It has been engineered to cover the globe in 15.56 orbits - 1 day. For more information on when the satellite might be visible from where you are click here.

Information can be transmitted almost instantaneously to a ground station via telemetry. The live webcam works in this way, with webcam instructions sent via the internet to the ground station and from there to the Satellite. Images from the webcam are in turn sent to the ground station and from there via the internet to your web browser.


Apparently, not only are the satellites fake, but their alleged glorious existence is also used heavily in PR campaigns and for advertising purposes to bamboozle the oblivious sheeple.
Last edited by Roe77 on October 30th, 2014, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby brianv on October 30th, 2014, 12:25 pm

Roe77 wrote:I would like to present to you the infamous 'Tate satellite' http://www2.tate.org.uk/space/webcam.htm

The satellite is orbiting at approx 400km from earth in a polar to polar orbit. The satellite orbits earth every 92.56 mins. It has been engineered to cover the globe in 15.56 orbits - 1 day. For more information on when the satellite might be visible from where you are click here.

Information can be transmitted almost instantaneously to a ground station via telemetry. The live webcam works in this way, with webcam instructions sent via the internet to the ground station and from there to the Satellite. Images from the webcam are in turn sent to the ground station and from there via the internet to your web browser.


Apparently, not only are the satellites fake, but their alleged glorious existence is also used heaviliy in PR campaigns and for advertising purposes to bamboozle the oblivious sheeple.


As my 5 year old son says: "ONG"!

Where is the "ISS" and all the other alleged satellites?
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby AirplaneJoe on November 6th, 2014, 12:14 pm

Satellites definitley do exist. All this dribble about cellphone towers etc is idiotic. Satellites do give GPS signals. How do you think you can navigate in the middle of the ocean? It even shows you on the GPS receiver which satellites are active and at what strength.
Satellites are used for meteo images, satellite phones and communication, TV etc, etc.

Or are you believing that they send hundreds of fake rockets into space every year for nothing. Do you believe that Apple and Samsung engineers put fake GPS receivers in millions of phones? How can you receive TV in the middle of the desert or ocean? How can we se weather patterns and hurricanes developing in the ocean?

I am not convinced that the ISS is manned since reentry into the atmosphere is difficult without burning up. But sending an object into space is possible since Sputnik in the 1950's.

It is sad that a lot of very interesting facts concerning 911 and the moonlandings in this forum will being ridiculed by threads like this one. The shills are only to happy to point to threads like this when referring to septemberclues.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby simonshack on November 6th, 2014, 1:31 pm

AirplaneJoe wrote: The shills are only to happy to point to threads like this when referring to septemberclues.


That's right, Airplane Joe. This is precisely why they are - and deserve to be - called 'shills'. ^_^


AirplaneJoe wrote:Or are you believing that they send hundreds of fake rockets into space every year for nothing.


The premise of your question is false. Fake rockets cannot send anything into space - as far as I know and, quite honestly, believe.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby lux on November 6th, 2014, 3:02 pm

AirplaneJoe wrote: Do you believe that Apple and Samsung engineers put fake GPS receivers in millions of phones?

Yes.

How can you receive TV in the middle of the desert or ocean?

Via Skywave.

And, as for GPS functions, there are known ground based positioning technologies such as Locata and Pseudolite which are more accurate than "GPS" and use no "satellites." I mention these only to illustrate that satellites are not needed for global positioning -- all you need is a network of surface transmitters in known positions.

Which method do you suppose is cheaper and easier: launching satellites into space or positioning transmitters on the ground or sea?

How can we se weather patterns and hurricanes developing in the ocean?

You aren't seeing weather patterns and hurricanes. You are seeing images on a screen made up of little dots. These could be produced by photographically equipped high altitude aircraft or simply created out of nothing with graphics software.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby Critical Mass on November 6th, 2014, 3:38 pm

AirplaneJoe wrote:Satellites definitley do exist


Certainly it is claimed that satellites exist & certainly you can see things in the night sky that appear to be satellites however equally you can see all sorts of problems with the imagery 'from space' especially from Nasa's earliest days & continuing right through into contemporary times.

How do we square that circle especially when we know we're still being lied to (I note you mention the Moon landings well Nasa continue to claim that they went to the Moon in the 60's)?

For my own part I see that there is something very dodgy about the official story concerning Satellites (their numbers, the imagery, the 'discoveries' they make & the data they collect) & they keep getting dragged into all kinds of stories (see MH370 for instance)... and then there's the ridiculous toy Rockoons.


Should no questions be asked?

Should we just believe 100% what we're told by 'higher authorities'?

No verification of their claims attempted?



Simon genuinely believes we're being duped... he's been right about these things before.

Besides the thread is called 'general musings & discussion' not 'SATELLITES ARE A HOAX, 100% GUARANTEED. I HAVE THE PROOF!!!'

As for what 'others' believe 'credits' or 'discredits' this forum I suspect Simon & Hoi couldn't give two hoots.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby brianv on November 6th, 2014, 4:43 pm

http://www2.tate.org.uk/space/webcam.htm

I don't believe anything, perhaps you would care to point one out? On the other hand shills definitely do exist.

How do you think you can navigate in the middle of the ocean?


Compass, Sextant and the Stars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby smj on November 6th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Are we to believe that NASA went to the moon and back using Charlie Draper's electronic dead reckoning system; but we need satellites to navigate in the "middle of the ocean"?

http://www.cambridgehistory.org/discove ... 0Labs.html
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby Sukiari on November 8th, 2014, 12:44 am

AirplaneJoe wrote:Satellites definitley do exist. All this dribble about cellphone towers etc is idiotic.


You have really gotten off on the right foot here. It's important to establish to the audience that you're an expert on these matters, even if you're not. Are you a radio amateur? Are you an amateur astronomer? What sort of background do you have in the matters of satellites or radio technology? I've been a radio ham for almost a decade and I hold a General class license, which is an upgraded class license, and I see no particular reason that satellites have to exist in order to provide long range radio communications, which have existed since the dawn of the radio age.

AirplaneJoe wrote:Satellites do give GPS signals.


GPS signals could come from any number of places. In fact, at this time they often come from the ground. See AGPS, EGPS, and other "enhancements."

AirplaneJoe wrote:How do you think you can navigate in the middle of the ocean? It even shows you on the GPS receiver which satellites are active and at what strength.


So what a little picture on a screen says is now what's real? There is no reason that these signals can not come from ground stations, and in fact there is a system called LORAN dating back to WWII that today provides accuracy down to the 10-30m range, not too much worse than GPS. In fact it seems most likely that GPS is simply a somewhat enhanced LORAN. It is well known that radio amateurs (like me!) often bounce signals in the same frequency bands off objects like airplanes, raindrops, and even weather balloons to achieve extremely long range communications. Space rocks, high altitude mylar balloons, and other junk also easily reflects these signals. Bear in mind that the only people who claim to have imaged the ISS work for various space agencies and connected organizations (and all used very basic off the shelf "advanced beginner" type telescopes) but the more advanced amateurs who have tried to see the ISS with much larger and more capable optics all claim to have seen a mere orb.

AirplaneJoe wrote:Satellites are used for meteo images, satellite phones and communication, TV etc, etc.


Yeah, yeah. We know because our satellite TV and phones have little pictures of satellites on them and they say "satellite" right in the name. :rolleyes:

AirplaneJoe wrote:Or are you believing that they send hundreds of fake rockets into space every year for nothing.


Who knows why they do it. It is not necessary to determine all the possible motives of a perp before you call them out as a perp. This is a classic shill technique which is designed to get the conversation off-track, straight out of The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies.

AirplaneJoe wrote:Do you believe that Apple and Samsung engineers put fake GPS receivers in millions of phones?


This is a red herring. I don't think anybody in this thread has disputed the fact that you can use GPS to get your local position. Putting words in other peoples' mouths is a classic shill technique. Nice try though.

AirplaneJoe wrote:How can you receive TV in the middle of the desert or ocean?


Marconi was doing this with radio (you know, the exact same technology as TV) over 100 years ago. Are you trying to say that you believe Marconi had satellites, or that Marconi was unable to transmit information using radio without them and that he really faked everything, as did everybody who claimed to use radio and TV transmission from land-based sources until the invention of the "telecommunications satellite?" And how do you like it when people put words in your mouth? You must like it because you do it to other people.

AirplaneJoe wrote:How can we se weather patterns and hurricanes developing in the ocean?


Doppler radar works over a length of hundreds of miles, and the NOAA, NASA, and various other agencies around the globe are continuously launching weather balloons, sounding rockets, airplanes, and there is also over the horizon radar which is nominally used to detect airplanes and rockets at very long range, but which might also be used to look at weather patterns as well. There is plenty of technology that could be used to detect weather patterns over the oceans. There are also many buoys floating all around the world, which include high-powered radio transmitters and other technology that could be used to provide GPS signals to remote areas.

AirplaneJoe wrote:I am not convinced that the ISS is manned since reentry into the atmosphere is difficult without burning up. But sending an object into space is possible since Sputnik in the 1950's.


Limited hangout eh. OK if that's your game, so be it. But bear in mind that Sputnik's radio was transmitting at 20 MHz which is well within the HF band, giving relatively easy worldwide propagation from the ground. Just earlier this week I communicated with another radio amateur in Japan using only 3 watts of power in the 21 MHz amateur band, and people frequently do better with even less power (milliwatts).

AirplaneJoe wrote:It is sad that a lot of very interesting facts concerning 911 and the moonlandings in this forum will being ridiculed by threads like this one. The shills are only to happy to point to threads like this when referring to septemberclues.


Who cares what the shills say? I don't think anybody here is too worried about it. It's strange that you'd even mention this.

All in all, I give you only a 4 out of 10. You did achieve some page lengthening though, which as every shill knows is at least a small victory, right?

:ph34r:
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby AirplaneJoe on November 8th, 2014, 2:42 am

My dear friend Sukiari. Am I an expert? I don't know. I am an electrical engineer and airline pilot. I tend to think logically and I have a lot of experience in HF and FM radio technology. If you are a ham radio operator you know that HF is crap quality and has no bandwidth to support HD quality TV or decent audio voice. So forget about providing GPS signals and TV and voice via HF. HF is technology from 1900 and that's it.
Now, we navigated with VLF and Omega (1940 submarine navigation from US Navy) until 1998, accuracy was maybe 20-30 miles. LORAN existed from the mid 80's, maybe 5 miles.
GPS satellite navigation started in 1998 with superior accuracy, especially after the U.S. Government released full accuracy.
The pictures from the meteo satellites are extremely accurate, as a pilot you can rely on it, it is a visible or infrared picture and provides accurate meteo information.
Claiming that satellites do not exist is just ridiculous and plain stupid.
Shills? Well I am not a shill, I think a lot of claims here are valid however threads like this one are feed for shills.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby lux on November 8th, 2014, 4:45 am

AirplaneJoe wrote:Claiming that satellites do not exist is just ridiculous and plain stupid.


Not if the reasons for this opinion are stated (which they are). Have you read the thread?
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby Sukiari on November 8th, 2014, 5:01 am

AirplaneJoe wrote:My dear friend Sukiari. Am I an expert? I don't know. I am an electrical engineer and airline pilot.


That's great, sounds like fun.

AirplaneJoe wrote:I tend to think logically and I have a lot of experience in HF and FM radio technology.


This is heartening to hear, but FM is a mode and HF is a band as I'm sure you know. Did you mean the FM broadcast band? If so I'm sure you know about hybrid digital and the various other subcarrier techniques that have been used to deliver various services "invisibly and underneath" ordinary FM broadcast. I'm sure you know about the various spread spectrum technologies that are now in service.

AirplaneJoe wrote:If you are a ham radio operator you know that HF is crap quality and has no bandwidth to support HD quality TV or decent audio voice.


HF voice quality varies widely with the ionospheric weather and other conditions, local, regional, and global, but in general you're right. It's not hi-fi. When did I claim that HF is used to deliver TV and voice?


AirplaneJoe wrote:So forget about providing GPS signals and TV and voice via HF. HF is technology from 1900 and that's it.


HF radio has been used for many decades to provide high-reliability low-bitrate signals both digital and analog. I use it quite often with morse code as well as more advanced digital communications modes, some of which support both forward error correction and request-based retransmission techniques for error handling. There is no reason why GPS signals could not be delivered over HF radio, but I have used my own equipment to receive GPS health information and other transmissions from the GPS system so I really do believe GPS is using the frequencies that the authorities claim at least for the system health messages.

AirplaneJoe wrote:Now, we navigated with VLF and Omega (1940 submarine navigation from US Navy) until 1998, accuracy was maybe 20-30 miles. LORAN existed from the mid 80's, maybe 5 miles.


Loran now provides accuracy of 10-30m, perhaps better with specialized receivers and high-accuracy time frequency standards.

AirplaneJoe wrote:GPS satellite navigation started in 1998 with superior accuracy, especially after the U.S. Government released full accuracy.


Nobody here is suggesting that GPS is fake, just that the same service could be delivered from ground stations, and it is with AGPS and EGPS today.

AirplaneJoe wrote:The pictures from the meteo satellites are extremely accurate, as a pilot you can rely on it, it is a visible or infrared picture and provides accurate meteo information.


These "satellite" photos are not really that impressive by any standards, and there is no reason this sort of information could not be gathered by weather balloons, sounding rockets, aircraft, ground radar stations, over the horizon radar, weather ships, weather buoys...

AirplaneJoe wrote:Claiming that satellites do not exist is just ridiculous and plain stupid. Shills? Well I am not a shill, I think a lot of claims here are valid however threads like this one are feed for shills.


Nobody here is trying to force you to believe anything. But the fact remains that all of the "satellite" technologies out there could be delivered by ground stations. Much work has been done with GHz band radio and the ionosphere and it is now certain that the ionosphere does indeed reflect these ultra-short bands to some degree.
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby brianv on November 8th, 2014, 8:00 pm

Joe:

A Question for your buds at NAuSeA

Why are there no navigation lights on Satellites?

I regularly walk after dinner, tonight was no exception. A beautiful clear sky but not 100% dark, I could see stars in every quarter. My walk takes me down through the estuary where there are no lights. I could see ship's navigation lights miles out to sea, I could see a red flashing beacon on the mountains approximately 40 miles away. Sometimes, but not tonight I see airplane's beacons overhead - as you being a pilot must know!

When I reached the dog leg of my return journey I stopped and looked around. I had 360 degrees of sky - hundreds and hundreds of miles of sky. Nothing except stars and stars.

I repeat the question in case you missed it : Why are there no navigation lights on Satellites?
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Postby AirplaneJoe on November 10th, 2014, 9:58 pm

To brianv: Why should there be lights on satellites? There are Nav lights on airplanes to make it visible and avoid a collision.

To Sukiari: Why do claim that all GPS signal are ground based? For what reason. Expensive ground station with 300m towers like LORAN are heavy maintenance and investment. Sure LORAN is more accurate now but it is basically abanoned in the US and Russia, only Europe tries to keep it alive for maritime reasons and safety.

GPS is line of sight signal on the high Mhz range. A simple experiment will prove it. Take your iphone, turn on your GPS and stand under a bridge. Your signal immediatley disappears.

Also again HD TV signals can only transmitted by satellites to remote areas, cruise ships etc. If you ever adjusted a satellite dish you know that it has to point to the satellite in order to receive a signal.

And again, satellite make pictures of the earth showing weather patterns, clouds etc. This can be proven by flying through it in airplanes.

Now again on last point, why do you question the existence of satellites? Name one fact that makes sense taht satellites are not in orbit.
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