MEDIA still pushing "burning fuel melts steel"

[lux]

Our local news media report a tanker crash on a busy LA freeway this past weekend. The LA Times story contains a video with this fine actress, Lauren Wonder, a CalTrans Spokesperson:



Lauren earnestly implores us (at about 1:30 in the video linked below) to realize that gasoline fuel burns at 4000F! "That fuel can burn at 4000 degrees so you can imagine the damage ... and the flames ... and what it can do to concrete and steel," she says with a sincerity and urgency that would make Meryl Streep proud.

Four thousand degrees? Really? Everybody else says it's more like 1000F but I guess LA gasoline burns hotter due to to all the bullshit glitter and glamor that we have here in our atmosphere.

Here is the story link with video:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/04/gas-tanker-freeway-fire.html

The above Caltrans actress, Lauren Wonder, is previously quoted as saying, "“Public affairs work is so exciting; there’s never a dull moment. Those of us in this practice may have just an inch of science and engineering knowledge, but we know how to spread a good story a mile wide.” Source

Yep, that about sums it up, Lauren.

We've had other similar news stories in the last couple years here in LA. All with tankers that crash and burn and just happen to do it under another section of freeway causing heat damage to the "concrete and steel" above. They never seem to crash out in the open for some reason.

[MrSinclair]

She has no time for facts, there are more important things like diversity training workshops and following orders.

[whatsgoingon]

Here is the kicker. How was there enough fuel to melt all the lower support member steel on the lower floors even if we grant them that the temperatures were that high? They do not have enough fuel to do that. It is impossible. It all comes back to the pancake collapse theory, which is impossible. They need pancake collapse to seem realistic for there to be a prayer. Many can swallow the idea that there was enough jet fuel to torch a couple of floors and get hotter temperatures perhaps high enough to weaken steel. Pancake collapse is required however to sell that story.

No pancake -- no collapse. Impossible.

[MrSinclair]

It reminds me of the old turntables (I'm showing my age) which could stack several records and drop them one at a time for play however I just don't remember the record dropping and destroying the turntable so the pancake theory collapses.

[lux]

Same goes for pancakes.

[whatsgoingon]

Pancake collapse theory is the ultimate intelligence test of our age. You either understand it and have a brain or you do not have a thinking mind. There is nothing in between here.

They must have deliberately included this nonsense to test the intelligence of members of the pubic. I cannot believe any self-respecting Psy-Op manager thought it was a good idea. But I would have loved to have listened in on that meeting of the minds. Not a single person with a degree in physics, chemistry, math or logic was present that day. Either that or the decision was from the top down and the top in this case has not a single working neuron. Or the Top thinks the public is mentally equivalent to a chicken or fish.

[lux]

I seem to recall seeing "pancake collapse" type gags in various cartoons from many years ago though I couldn't name them now.

Perhaps a psy-op suggestion from that long ago? I wonder.

[fbenario]

Not a single person with a degree in physics, chemistry, math or logic was present that day. Either that or the decision was from the top down and the top in this case has not a single working neuron. Or the Top thinks the public is mentally equivalent to a chicken or fish.

Goodness, TPTB weren't the least bit worried about whether their 9/11 psyop made any sense at all. They knew people are gullible and bloodthirsty, so they only had to "throw something'' together, and present an obvious enemy, and America would go to war.

[fbenario]

It reminds me of the old turntables (I'm showing my age) which could stack several records and drop them one at a time for play however I just don't remember the record dropping and destroying the turntable so the pancake theory collapses.

Absolutely hilarious! Droll and sardonic. Totally rockin'.

[burlington]

Lauren earnestly implores us (at about 1:30 in the video linked below) to realize that gasoline fuel burns at 4000F! "That fuel can burn at 4000 degrees so you can imagine the damage ... and the flames ... and what it can do to concrete and steel," she says with a sincerity and urgency that would make Meryl Streep proud.

Is it realistic to hope that some American science teachers are not afraid to set their students straight about crap like that?

[whatsgoingon]

Lauren earnestly implores us (at about 1:30 in the video linked below) to realize that gasoline fuel burns at 4000F! "That fuel can burn at 4000 degrees so you can imagine the damage ... and the flames ... and what it can do to concrete and steel," she says with a sincerity and urgency that would make Meryl Streep proud.

Is it realistic to hope that some American science teachers are not afraid to set their students straight about crap like that?

Think like this, burlington. You need a blast furnace effect as well to even begin to mess with steel. Now imagine there was a disastrous plane wreck with fuel spilled all over the place; gravity was doing its thing dispersing the fuel; and evaporation also doing its thing. So a dispersed fuel supply now needs tons of O2 to burn that hot. No way that O2 was available. It would need to be feed in like a blast furnace. All that smoke means the burn was not clean and hence the O2 was insufficient.

I feel bad for people that believe this stuff. They are really not thinking soundly about the thermodynamics. You need heat. A lot of heat to melt that structure. The smoke means that heat was not that great. They threw in the idea of office paper to increase the fuel supply. Well paper is worse/weaker than jet fuel. Of course, building 7 was a joke in this regard. No jet fuel. Diesel generators in the top floor and some office paper -- WTC7 disintegrated in a blink of an eye.

So to conclude you can imagine the following. It takes a lot of fossil fuel to make a skyscraper like WTC to form all that steel. Assume that fuel required to build the steel has a dollar equivalent. How on earth could a minor fraction of that dollar equivalent in jet fuel from a single plane take that building down? You need to be at least close to that figure.

Assume 100 passengers at $250 a ticket. $25,000. And all that money was used to purchase the jet fuel.

Does anyone think $25000 in Jet A fuel could take out a skyscraper?

How absurd.

One could do calorimetric arguments based on the Joules of fossil energy in the Jet fuel and the required amounts to melt/weak the major structural members of the building. I am not a structural engineer but those calculations I imagine are off by factors of 1000 at least assuming blast furnace conditions were possible that day miraculously and the fuel was deposited on the structural steel from the bottom to the top of the structure to allow for that free-fall collapse (as seen on TV).

[simonshack]

Does anyone think $25000 in Jet A fuel could take out a skyscraper?

How absurd.

I will now post this link - IN ANTICIPATION of Heiwa's reaction - as I'm sure he would have done so before myself !
http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall.htm

On an even more serious note: anyone still accepting that a passenger airplane's burning fuel can take down two steel-structures, 110 stories tall, must be totally deranged / terminally stupid. We, "the conspiracists", as they call us - are often asked to 'take our medications'. Well, people still believing in the official 9/11 tale are far beyond sick. They are gravely brainwashed - and victims of what is called "mass psychosis".

[HonestlyNow]

On an even more serious note: anyone still accepting that a passenger airplane's burning fuel can take down two steel-structures, 110 stories tall, must be totally deranged / terminally stupid. We, "the conspiracists", as they call us - are often asked to 'take our medications'. Well, people still believing in the official 9/11 tale are far beyond sick. They are gravely brainwashed - and victims of what is called "mass psychosis".

I think this calls for quoting a passage I read today in Monsters & Magical Sticks: There's No Such Thing As Hypnosis?, page 45. (c)1987.

Underneath all so-called problems, lies that fuel called fear: fear of rejection, fear of dying, fear of falling, fear of not being good enough. Whatever you tag it, it still comes out fear. Fear is what makes the field fertile for the "planting" of hypnotic suggestions which result in behavior labeled by some psychiatrists and psychologists as neurotic, psychotic, paranoid, manic-depressive and, in rare cases, normal.

[Heiwa]

Actually jet fuel is injected in any air plane jet engine of steel, where it is burned at high temperature to produce driving force and ... the jet engine doesn't melt. Same thing with a car engine. It doesn't melt when petrol gas explodes inside it, so you can drive a street. Not even the lubrication is affected.

Buy a gallon of jet fuel and put it in any pot or pan and ignite it ... and put some steel into the pot or pan. The pot or pan will not melt. And nor the steel that you put in.

[SmokingGunII]

In addition to the excellent analysis and humour above, I would like to remind readers that steel conducts heat too. So any "intense heat" from aviation fuel would have been dissipated throughout the towers' steel structure!

Even if people believe in planes or Father Christmas - surely they can see why the twin towers would NOT have collapsed through high temperatures?