9/11 Memorial Scams, Vicsims, Etc

[HonestlyNow]

Sorry, I have no proof of Tom's existence other than my testimony to you of my interactions with him and to point you to historic SEC filings that list Tom as an Executive Officer at Thoratec.

Someone in a high profile position, and in a sales/marketing postion, would have a large network of contacts. Have you ever asked around about him? And what did those other people say about him?

[SoCal fellow]

There are reports -- some appear to be disinformation, e.g., 'Polish/Austrian border' -- that Barbara Olson is alive and well in Europe:
http://www.rense.com/general67/olsen.htm

That Tom and Barbara were real in no way discredits the VicSim thesis. That Tom and Barbara were real just means, 'Thousands of deaths attributed to 9/11 did not happen; in fact, it is a possibility that no one may have died on 9/11. It appears that thousands of 'people' were created and passed off as victims, when in fact it appears that only a few (Tom, Barbara; Fr. Judge?) real people were 'victims' in 9/11. And, we have no physical proof of the deaths of those few real people, and can plausibly assume that they are still alive.'

[SoCal fellow]

H-N-, back when 9/11 'happened,' sure, my fellow former Guidant and Sacramento startup folks commented to each other, 'Wow, did you hear what happened to Tom? So sad.' But, that was the end of it, and that was 10 years ago.

I could go check with them again. But, chances are that they think that Dems and Republicans are different, 9/11 happened, etc., and it will go nowhere (except to mark me as nutty!).

[brianv]

w-g-o-, I do not have any photos. I, and others, met with the Thoratec executives over the course of months in the leadup to buying the company. Our company, Guidant, later passed on buying Thoratec, in favor of buying another, larger, more-important-to-our-core company.

I would have never thought to take photos; this was back in '98. There was nothing remarkable or memorable about a series of business meetings, which I had with many, many companies. The morning bagels at Thoratec's office were just not that great (ha, ha).

Same with my attempted recruiting of Tom to come to Sacramento to be our VP of S&M. Nothing exceptional about the one face-to-face meeting at some medical device show between me, Tom, our CEO, and our VP of R&D. Tom whined words to the effect, 'Why don't folks look at me for a CEO role?', and passed on leaving Thoratec. I think later that year, in '99, he was promoted to COO, in part to induce him to stay at Thoratec.

A golfing day out? An office xmas party perhaps? A promotion? One photograph thats all we ask!

Same old same old lame stories about media fictions!

"But, chances are that they think that Dems and Republicans are different" ...and Ron Pauls?

[SoCal fellow]

brian, he worked at another company and worked in a different function. Why in the world would I be at a Christmas party with him? Why in the world would I golf with him?

I am an analytical former CFO, not some backslapping sales type; I do not play golf or go out for beers after work.

Have you ever met someone a few times over a short period of time, then never spoke to them again and have no photos of the interaction? I have, and it happens a lot: fellow parents at soccer games, whose children go off to different teams next year; sitting with different groups of folks at church functions over the years; chatting with folks at dinner parties, etc.

[simonshack]

So-Cal.

Please heed brianv's advice - hop in your car and try meeting Deena in Little Rock, AR. Failing that, your concern about Tom Burnett having been a real person falls flat into the pithole of mere bla-bla. As the Tom Burnett foundation urges you to do:

"DO SOMETHING".

http://www.tomburnettfoundation.org/

[SoCal fellow]

Simon, my concern is not about proving to you whether Tom was real or not.

My concern is to preserve and enhance the credibility of your report. That you insist that Tom (and Barbara) were not real will reduce the credibility of your thesis in the eyes of those who knew Tom (limited size group) or saw Barbara on TV (large group). Both Tom and Barbara have a public, documentary footprint, in SEC filings (Tom) or a published book (Barbara). Then, there is the testimonial footprint of both, from those who knew Tom or saw Barbara in her numerous TV appearances.

Even if I did take the trip to Arkansas, how would I know if 'Little Rock Deena' was Tom's wife? Maybe 'Little Rock Deena' and her daughters are Illuminati members who are programmed to assume the role of 'Deena and daughters.' So, I would have to go from Little Rock to MN (or wherever they were married) to ask family and friends if 'Little Rock Deena' was indeed Tom's wife.

Simon, I think I would rather learn golf (ha, ha) than go on that goosechase.

No, I will just stay here in SoCal and tend to my very real family.

[simonshack]

Dear SoCal,

Since you registered on this forum saying that you once met Tom Burnett, let me ask you this basic question. Now, please take into account that the "no victims" paradigm has been discussed for over 2/or 3 years now.

Why has not one - ok, I'll spell that out...

NOT ONE

...close relative or childhood friend of the purported 3000 victims of 9/11 sued us for libel?

I expect your answer to be: "Duh, do you think anyone cares about Cluesforum - and its findings?"

To this, I would (jokingly) answer: "No. Perhaps no member (not a SINGLE one) of any of the 3000 mourning families has ever bumped into Cluesforum - or any internet link suggesting that NO ONE DIED on 9/11?."

Is this realistic, in your mind?

+++++++++++++++++++
Let me tell you one thing: if my father had been reported as a victim of 9/11 - and something smelled fishy - you would have heard from me - and I would have been MUCH more vociferous about it all - than anything you have ever seen on the web!

[SoCal fellow]

Simon, it is a big world.

I just learned of your site, and VicSim report, this weekend. And I spend a lot of time -- over 10 hours each day, lots of it on the Internet -- trying to learn economic and historical truth, and have been for three years.

There may be as few as three real folks involved in 9/11 deaths: Tom, Barbara, and Fr. Judge. Barbara and Fr. Judge have no children. Thus, only Tom's daughters would be liable to sue.

But why would they? If his death was real, they have bigger things to worry about, than about some 'crackpot' website based in Italy. They have real healing to go through.

If his death was faked, as it probably was along with Barbara's, they and their mother may be in on it, as programmed Illuminati pawns. Sure, your work risks blowing the cover story. But, Americans are preoccupied with jobs, kids, high gas prices, etc. Shoot, Americans cannot even get themselves up to investigate Obama's birth certificate, which Sheriff Joe Arpaio two weeks ago very ably demonstrated is a fake.

I learned long ago, that it takes time, repeated efforts, and an open mind to convince folks of truth, when they have been brainwashed by endless repeats of moon landings, 9/11, Oswald, etc. And, an open mind only comes after an important failure -- loss of job, loss of spouse -- it seems.

You have done mighty fine work, Simon. For those whose minds are open -- and the number is growing daily -- your work will be important when they come upon it.

I just pointed out a minor flaw in your thesis -- that there were a few real people who were 'victims' on 9/11 -- and nothing more. You can choose to accept, or reject it. My feelings are not hurt, and I will continue to point out your site and VicSim report to others who run (relatively) important websites. I hope that they choose to write an article about your site, so that it comes to the attention of even more folks. Your work is important and well done.

[SoCal fellow]

This is Barbara Olson's book:
http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Pay-Unfoldin ... 488&sr=8-8

It was published in 1999. It has 173 reviews, some of which date from 1999.

Sure, it is possible that the orchestrators of 9/11 inserted post-dated reviews.

But, I and maybe some on this forum, remember the book from before 9/11 and remember interviews of Barbara on Faux News from before 9/11.

What do you think of the provenance of the book and reviews? Real or fake?

Are any of your forum members like me, former 'conservatives' and Republicans, who had seen Barbara on TV before 9/11?

[simonshack]

You have done mighty fine work, Simon. For those whose minds are open -- and the number is growing daily -- your work will be important when they come upon it.

I just pointed out a minor flaw in your thesis -- that there were a few real people who were 'victims' on 9/11 -- and nothing more. You can choose to accept, or reject it. My feelings are not hurt, and I will continue to point out your site and VicSim report to others who run (relatively) important websites. I hope that they choose to write an article about your site, so that it comes to the attention of even more folks. Your work is important and well done.

Thanks, SoCal

I do hope you will help us along reinstating sanity in this world.

The problem seems to be that this world is governed by deranged psycho/sociopaths. All we do here is to point out this fact.

[nonhocapito]

I just pointed out a minor flaw in your thesis -- that there were a few real people who were 'victims' on 9/11 -- and nothing more. You can choose to accept, or reject it. My feelings are not hurt, and I will continue to point out your site and VicSim report to others who run (relatively) important websites. I hope that they choose to write an article about your site, so that it comes to the attention of even more folks. Your work is important and well done.

You haven't pointed out any flaw, SoCal. Not one. All you have done is pointing out your desire to use your unproved and, evidently, unprovable story about a vicsim as a device to suggest the idea of "real victims" or, worse come worse, "real people".
But it is not all bad. I am glad you tried this because today, thanks to your efforts, I am a tiny bit more persuaded that there actually wasn't any real individual, I mean of those who "faked their own death", among all 9/11 fake victims.
See, facing the phony, tiresome biographic stories, desperately trying to sound authentic, that come from the alleged front of the "acquaintances and relatives", the feeling of complete falsehood gets only stronger and stronger. Can't help it...

[hoi.polloi]

Sorry, but I never saw anything like that. I am sure it existed.

My sense - however - is that the NASA program didn't start with the moon landing hoax and similarly, the war on terror didn't start with 9/11. What about the 1993 bombing? All information connected to the World Trade Center is suspect, including your assertion that you have met someone claiming to be Tom Burnett.

Now - as for whether this person is/was real, we cannot possibly know. It's just that your individually saying "I knew him" isn't enough evidence to make a big difference in the investigation. It's just not.

Our theory hasn't changed - that there is no proof that anyone died on 9/11 - so either way what can we do except ask you to present something more than cursory? Right now, I have no choice but to "lump" you in with the many shills who came on here before claiming to know someone and posting the same old imagery of photoshopped, manipulated images.

I think as a fair test for our readers, you should look at all the imagery of Tom Burnett and tell us from an honest standpoint - does it look like normal imagery to you?

[SoCal fellow]

n-h-c- and h-p-; I linked to Barbara Olson's book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Pay-Unfoldin ... duct_top#_

1. Are the 173 reviews faked? Are they post-dated to before 9/11? They seem a lot more varied in style and tone than the junk on the CNN website for the 9/11 VicSims.

2. Does the image of the back cover, with her photo, look faked? To see the back cover, put your cursor on Hillary (not bad looking when she was young!) and click on 'Back Cover.'

[simonshack]

1. Are the 173 reviews faked? Are they post-dated to before 9/11? They seem a lot more varied in style and tone than the junk on the CNN website for the 9/11 VicSims.

2. Does the image of the back cover, with her photo, look faked? To see the back cover, put your cursor on Hillary (not bad looking when she was young!) and click on 'Back Cover.'

SoCal,

You truly sound like someone who has faked these data/imagery yourself. Why do I get this feeling?