9/11 MEMORIAL SCAMS

[ozzybinoswald]

Guys,

Are we speculating here in this thread the last month or are we making statements?

I just want to bring it up for the records.

The last month? Like what Duck?

Are you still insisting that David Angell must be real? Why so insistent on maintaining the actuality of that one rarely seen or photographed so-called celebrity victim?

First you said Hoi was "being stupid" because he didn't simply accept the few seconds of video as absolute proof of the individual, or on the basis of his name rolling by in the credits, or actors thanking him at awards ceremonies,

Then, after I posted that I thought he was being represented by actor John Ratzenberger, you immediately posted that "he doesn't look anything like" Angell. Categorically and absolutely could not be him. And why not Duck?

What exactly qualifies as looking like him?


Especially considering that Ratzenberger's actress girlfriend is a dead ringer for Mrs. Angell:



So you posted your absolute and unequivocal denial in a lengthy post and then deleted it before I could respond. What possible justification would you have for such a denial?


Then I pointed out the duplication of the little eye detail that looks like an elk's head - the kind of specific detail that is easily overlooked during the reconfiguration and distortion of the big features:



And you went silent and have been all this time since, not even responding to my PMs. Will you now concede that John Ratzenberger was in the role of David Angell? And if not, why not? Exactly what do you consider the appropriate direction or content? Where exactly is that forbidden gate?



And what's the scoop with Heiwa aka Anders Bjorkman? In one of his final posts he said you'd met him in person?

Because I think Anders Bjorkman is the foundational face for vicsim Mark L. Charette, since I don't get deflected by disparities that are well within the bounds of morphing software, like the resizing of certain features.

Mark Charette____________________________________Anders Bjorkman


I think the young Mark Chartette, above, looks more like the old Anders Bjorkman than he does himself when older, below. Notice Charette sometimes has flaring nostrils, sometimes not.

Bjorkman________________________________________________Charette

[simonshack]

So you posted your absolute and unequivocal denial in a lengthy post and then deleted it before I could respond.

Ozzy,

For clarification: as Dduck published that post I was talking with him over skype. I removed it myself - something he was ok with - telling him it was preferable at this time not to cause unnecessary conflict over this one issue. Let's stay smart and avoid bickering over one or the other vicsim, guys. Dduck's point was that if we make mistakes along the road, we may be exposed for criticism. IMHO, the countless incontrovertible examples of photo fraud we have so far constitute already an insurmountable body of evidence. However, we should certainly strive to stay sharp and on course - concentrating on the clearest, unarguable fakery to be found in the vicsim database.

Thanks for your - and all contributors' - kind comprehension.

[ozzybinoswald]

So you posted your absolute and unequivocal denial in a lengthy post and then deleted it before I could respond.

Ozzy,

For clarification: as Dduck published that post I was talking with him over skype. I removed it myself - something he was ok with - telling him it was preferable at this time not to cause unnecessary conflict over this one issue. Let's stay smart and avoid bickering over one or the other vicsim, guys. Dduck's point was that if we make mistakes along the road, we may be exposed for criticism. IMHO, the countless incontrovertible examples of photo fraud we have so far constitute already an insurmountable body of evidence. However, we should certainly strive to stay sharp and on course - concentrating on the clearest, unarguable fakery to be found in the vicsim database.

Thanks for your - and all contributors - kind comprehension.

Two points:

Are we now being advised to curtail the research according to the limitations dictated by critics? If that's how we operated in the past we'd all be planehuggers chanting "google building 7."

The "concerns" explanation still doesn't explain Duck's continued demand that Angell be counted as actual in the face of the contrary evidence. Angell has been a stumbling block which I now consider removed.


Oh I'm trouble. For everybody.

[D.Duck]

Ozzy,

What exactly qualifies as looking like him?

This does.




And this does.

The "concerns" explanation still doesn't explain Duck's continued demand that Angell be counted as actual in the face of the contrary evidence.

You have no evidence at this point , all you have is a stretch and believe me I can make stretches too if I want but I prefer to be 100% sure before I make a statement that this person is that and so on.

But please be my guest and go find the evidences and when you found it, I will be glad to see it and while your at it, please make a possible scenario to why Ratz is Angell, Good Luck with that.

A side note: Why did you not compare Angells head scar with Ratz and do you have any idea where Angell got the head scar from?


Get one thing straight:

A few people were real people, and for one reason or another had to be a write off and its kind of interesting to find out why and what their part was.



Best
D.Duck

[simonshack]

Two points:

Are we now being advised to curtail the research according to the limitations dictated by critics? If that's how we operated in the past we'd all be planehuggers chanting "google building 7."

The "concerns" explanation still doesn't explain Duck's continued demand that Angell be counted as actual in the face of the contrary evidence. Angell has been a stumbling block which I now consider removed.


Oh I'm trouble. For everybody.

Two replies :) :

No - if we were a crowd of 'advisors' we wouldn't be where we are. We are all independent people contributing pieces of the puzzle, each one doing the best he/she can. No matter how different our methods, we've seen that they lead to consistently converging findings.

At this advanced stage - and with the wealth of results attained, any two (or more) of us can certainly afford to agree to disagree on some particular issue. The only potential 'stumbling block' I could imagine is if we allow ourselves to stymie our progress with internal squabbles - something our opposition would of course love to see - and something that would turn off newcomers to the forum.

Sorry to sound so 'rational' and 'diplomatic', Oz. I know you hate that ! :lol:

[hoi.polloi]

I would very much like to hear Oz's responses to D.Duck.

Although I don't see Angell as an 'obstacle' I do see Oz's point that Angell may as well be completely fake.

There doesn't need to be bickering -- but we definitely shouldn't shut up about our opinions.

Why do two small pictures that are practically the embodiment of vicsim pics


(hugging, gripping family members on a weird memorial site with board members Angel Roberson, sister Claire Angell and another Kaplan, with a truly propagandistic foundation story http://www.thericatholic.com/news/detai ... ub_id=1526 )


(theatrical "mid-video" capture with vertical AP-style text running up side in white banner)

convince D.Duck so much?

That I still don't understand.

Tell us about the scar D.Duck. What scar are we talking about?

If Oz has no evidence for his thoughts, then there isn't really much basis for a statement like

A few people were real people, and for one reason or another had to be a write off and its kind of interesting to find out why and what their part was.

When there is plenty of apparently incomplete stories in the vicsims, what makes one that captured your attention not a red herring, D.Duck? I don't understand your reasoning here.

Why not also show the other micro pics?

their lives were grounded in solid, basic, middle class values like hard work, integrity and community

This doesn't smell funny to you?

David’s quiet strength served as a wonderful complement to Lynn’s gentle yet frank manner and rock solid foundation.

You think these pics look slightly less 'cloned' because the 9/11 TV plot coalesced at NBC? That would be my guess right now.

---

Here are some interesting thoughts about Providence College, where "David made himself available for advice and counsel to [...] alumni"

The school is Catholic, its education theme is angelical. Its course management system is actually called Angel. Its fund to provide an ongoing source of emergency financial aid for students of families with unexpected and extraordinary financial challenges is also called Angel.

I trust the pedophile-hiding power-mad Catholic church about as far as I can throw one of its gaudy Spanish temples. The Knights of Columbus are all up in that sh#t too.

What exactly is this supposed to be?
http://www.flipkart.com/providence-coll ... 1156959411
A book entitled: Providence College Alumni: David Angell, Chris Dodd, Patrick J. Kennedy, Janeane Garofalo, Robert Gallo, Thomas J. Dodd, Kieran Lalor (Paperback) ???
:blink: Huh? And it costs 810 Indian Rupees? What the heck is this?

Well, David's apparent brother is apparently pictured at that college during the opening of that college's "Smith Center for the Arts Dedication Ceremony" where he is credited as "Most Rev. Kenneth A. Angell, D.D. (fourth from left), bishop of the Diocese of Burlington, Vermont, and brother of David Angell." That theater also got a special space dedicated to the family (Angell Blackfriars Theatre). http://www.providence.edu/About+PC/New+ ... e+Arts.htm

The Center for the Arts campaign is defunct. http://www.providence.edu/Alumni/Giving ... mpaign.htm

There are too many hanging questions ... I don't see this as a real person yet at all.

[D.Duck]

Hoi,

What exactly is this supposed to be?
http://www.flipkart.com/providence-coll ... 1156959411
A book entitled: Providence College Alumni: David Angell, Chris Dodd, Patrick J. Kennedy, Janeane Garofalo, Robert Gallo, Thomas J. Dodd, Kieran Lalor (Paperback) ???

Good stuff, you are getting close.

All I am saying at this point is that Angell is not Ratz and anyone that says so is spreading bullshit and has to go back and check it again.

I am allergic to bullshit and it will never pass my detector, that's all.


Best
D.Duck

[fred]

[This is partially cross-posted from another thread in which a member was asking about Angell's reality.]

My opinion is this: It would appear that "David Angell" was a pen name of writer/actor/producer and aspiring Republican Senate candidate John Ratzenberger.

I believe that Barbara Olson retired from public life by faking her own death and remarrying her old husband, sleazy Washington political-insider Solicitor Ted Olson (he was the same lawyer who advised George W Bush in his legal battle with Al Gore). In my opinion, Barbara Olson now calls herself "Lady Booth" Olson and enjoys her new plastic surgery, having shaved a few years off of her "official" date of birth.

It is public knowledge that certain cast members of Cheers & Frasier are close personal friends with holders of high political office.



It generally understood that writers and actors use stage names and it would not be unusual for an actor like Ratzenberger to take his writing credit under a pen name. I haven't seen much to suggest that "writer David Angell" was anything more than a character or alter-ego of John Ratzenberger.

I don't understand why D.Duck thinks David Angell was real. The name itself sounds like a typical stage name.

Where was David Angell all those early years when we never saw him? Angell's backstory is Pentagon. That's pretty easy cover for a vicsim. "Working at the Pentagon" (on secret projects, no doubt) while Ratzenberger was playing men in uniform in London.

While I am sure that there are going to be cases where reasonable people can disagree, I think Ozzy's ID's for Ratzenberger and his jilted mistress are valid. The girlfriend's appearance as sim-wife and faintly-veiled threats seal the deal for me.

Ratz is clearly political. He's connected to the corridors of money and power and he's personally politically-ambitious. Ratzenberger's ideological twin Kelsey Grammer is also politically ambitious. I don't see any honest regular folks vouching for David Angell.

Who vouches for Angell? We've got the recipients of phony foundation money Catholic Schools, Hollywood check-writers, the Pentagon, and a few millionaire cast members from Cheers & Frasier. I guess we have the United & American Airlines companies and the FBI and Homeland Security people vouching for him too, since Mr & Mrs Angell were unlucky passengers. I don't know about you, but there's certainly nobody on that list that I trust.

Personally, I don't see how this Angell guy is anything but Sim City Pentagon. What's wrong with Ozzy's ID here? My analysis could be wrong, but I really don't see how Ozzy's ID is "bullshit". We've got professional actors and actresses playing roles of 9/11 friends and family, and that is a well-established pattern.

[D.Duck]

Fred,

I believe that Barbara Olson retired from public life by faking her own death and remarrying her old husband,

That would suggest that you think Ted and Barbara had a loving and close relationship in the first place.

What makes you think that??????


D.Duck

[fred]

Why did you not compare Angells head scar with Ratz and do you have any idea where Angell got the head scar from?


Get one thing straight:

A few people were real people, and for one reason or another had to be a write off

D.Duck, are you suggesting that Mr & Mrs Angell were real people who were murdered? I guess that would mean that Kelsey Grammer and John Ratzenberger are innocent dupes who lost their beloved writer pal? This is the one story out of 2000+ fake victim stories that just happens to be true?

For a couple of decades, Ratzenberger and Angell share the same lengthy resume: they're at the same place at the same time working on the same projects and getting paid for the same shows. To me, Ratzenberger and Angell look very much alike, as do Mrs Angell and Ratz's jilted lover. I don't think Ozzy's making a big stretch.

I don't understand the significance of a head scar.

I rather wish Simon had left up D.Duck's lengthy post because to me this is an important (if apparently controversial) issue.

Nobody's gone and thrown John Ratzenberger in a Siberian gulag (yet) so I don't see why we can't hash out this issue here. It's rare that I disagree with Duck, but Ozzy's work here this time looks spot on to me.

Having a few actual murder victims in the 9/11 operation would be a big departure from what we've uncovered so far.

"Don't worry, nobody will get killed except that Frasier millionaire guy." is a weaker sales pitch to the participants than "the buildings will be completely empty and nobody is going to get hurt, everything will be simulated."

Why not post the evidence in favor of David Angell's being for-real right here for all to see and judge for themselves?

[fred]

That would suggest that you think Ted and Barbara had a loving and close relationship in the first place.

What makes you think that??????

I wasn't hiding under the bed to know the intimate details of their relationship.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Barbara Olson was a hated thorn-in-the-side of The Powers That Be who needed to be eliminated like Karen Silkwood or John Lennon or Princess Diana or the DC Madame.

My own limited experience with the filthy rich and well-connected in the USA suggests that they usually work together to further their own interests and they tend to be more likely to collude with one another than to try to bump each other over the head.

Presumably if there were indeed real people getting murdered on 9/11, the other participants in the hoax would have to be OK with it. Was there a long list of people in government and the covert operations fraternity who wanted David Angell and Barbara Olson dead?

Whether they were happy together or not, I doubt Barbara Olson was a great financial burden on her husband. According to the gossip rags they were supposedly quite the DC power couple. It's not like she was Anna Nicole Smith. I don't think there were many cases of people saying "Yes, I'll participate in your 9/11 hoax simulation but only if you also kill my wife, OK?"

To me, that's stretch.

[simonshack]

*

MEMORIALS PROFILE OF DAVID LAWRENCE ANGELL


All I wish to say with this post (since you all seem so concerned about Angell...) is that the David Angell vicsim has been 'treated' the same way as all the other vicsims - as far as portraits and tributes are concerned. Now, please note that these are facts - not speculations.

1- "David Lawrence Angell" has two identical portraits on the internet. Yes - I call them IDENTICAL in spite of the different backgrounds and collars.



Now, this immediately puts him in the same league as a great deal of other vicsims - as we all know.

2 - "David Lawrence Angell's" tributes get the same 'treatment' and are just as pathetically sappy, silly and absurd as those of all the other vicsims.
One would think that if he was that famous, some people would leave AUTHENTIC-SOUNDING tributes to him, no?

http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/bostong ... &pid=91766


THE "ANGELIC" TRIBUTES

September 13, 2010


God Bless David and Lynn Angell who are now Angells in Heaven.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey

September 11, 2010 [SEE BELOW!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ crystal bratcher, hartwell, Georgia

June 06, 2010
In the arms of the Angels. At peace with God. RIP.
~ James Redmond, Ireland, Alaska

December 08, 2008
Hey lynn, (posted on David's tribute page!)
just wanted to say that i miss you and know that your in better place. it sucks that we lost such a great person like you.
hillsides really lost one of their best "angels".
~ bianca lewis, pasadena, California

September 11, 2007
6 Years Later and we still have not forgotten. David and Lynn you will never be forgotten. I love you both so much and want to thank you for a gift you both gave me. You gave me the gift of strength. I some times feel like I am loosing it all and I look at a picture of my two Angells and thank God for you both.
~ Suzanne N

September 11, 2006
Say hey GB (Good buddy Lynn),
It has been 5 years now since you and Dave have been gone. I still have a hard time conceiving the notion we will not see each other again on this earth. I take solace in knowing that two of the best "Angell's" are watching over us all. I feel your spirit around me so many times. Memories of our friendship while I was just a snotty teen and you were my GB flood my mind today. As we used to say everything is going to be 5, 5, 5 "fine" right?
I love you both!
~ Jeannie Nohles Ellis, Simi Valley, California

September 11, 2006 [SEE ABOVE!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ Genaro Sandoval, phoenix, Arizona

February 04, 2006
David and Lynn Angell are the two funniest people in the universe. I never met them personally, but every Tuesday night at 9 pm on NBC I would get my dose of David Angell and his irreplaceable humor and wit. Mr. Angell is a true insperation to me. I was struggling in college at that time with what I wanted to. I was a theater major but had no real direction. After I learned of the attacks in NYC, Washington D.C., and Shanksville PA, I was (not to be funny) touched or guided my guardian Angells named David and Lynn. I started to take a real intrest in screenwriting. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn are the most beautiful people in the world in the truest sense of the word. This also applies to all of the heros on the planes and in the towers and in PA. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn were Angells on Earth and on September 11, 2001 at 8:46 am in NYC (ironically back on the East Cost) ,( Mr. Angell said he would move back to Cape Cod , when he was finally taken in by the Hollywood community), he and his wife moved on to their Heavnly reward on the East Cost. The Angells are blessed Angells in Heaven and every time the sun is out or the rain comes down The Angells (David and Lynn) are smiling (sun) or crying(rain). Every time there is a rainbow in the sky that is also The Angells putting there artistic flair into our otherwise dull lives. Thank you both David and Lynn for being... Well just for being. GOD BLESS.
~ Suzanne Newman, New Jersey

THE HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISHERS

August 11, 2009
Happy 60th Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
WRONG DATE & WRONG AGE: "David Angell" was apparently born on APRIL 10, 1946 and would have been 63 in 2009!

April 10, 2009
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
CORRECT DATE - but no age mentioned.

April 12, 2008
Happy Birthday! I am sorry it is two lates but you never age so I still love you and your beautifull wife Lynn.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey
(YEAH, she's sorry to be two days late...now gimme a break! )

April 10, 2008
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
HIM AGAIN - does he wish happy birthday to dead David EVERY DAMN YEAR?

August 11, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
YES HE DOES - BUT WRONG DATE AGAIN!

April 10, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
Oh, this time he got it right!! :lol:

Etc...etc...

The above tributes and pictures are undeniable facts - and they resemble very much the crap pics and tributes of all the other 9/11 vicsims.
This means of course that all the real fans (of any real David Angell) would not seem to exist - or have been somehow denied access to the tribute pages.

[simonshack]

I feel compelled to highlight this 'little detail' - while it's still fresh in our minds:

David Angell has these 2 tributes on the Legacy Memorial:

September 11, 2010 [SEE BELOW!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ crystal bratcher, hartwell, Georgia

September 11, 2006 [SEE ABOVE!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ Genaro Sandoval, phoenix, Arizona

Two identical "September 11" comments from two different people distanced by 4 years?????

THIS IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT THEY ARE USING STUPID COMPUTER 'TEMPLATES' TO PRODUCE THE 9/11 TRIBUTES.

[D.Duck]

Fred,

No, I dont think anyone got whacked but I dont know 100% in all cases.

I know some played their part very well and I know Angell is not Ratz.

Don't you think its funny that Ted and Barbara was married in 1996 and you dont have much on them from that time and forward?

Haha, do you think this is serious, he looks really sad and that must mean he really miss her. Its a commercial for fucks sake and has nothing to do with them being a couple.



I mean , get fucking real, do you think any Government guy would pose on a picture like that if he really cared for the person? There are other ways to do it if they were a loving couple.

Fred, you have to keep the story straight if you want to talk about Ratz and Angell.

They did not share the same resume for a couple decades, they worked with Cheers for 11 years.

Angell started to do Taxi 1978, Cheers in 1982, Frasier and Wings after that in 1993 and Ratz started to play with David Geffen and the big boys at the same time, 1993.

Why not post the evidence in favor of David Angell's being for-real right here for all to see and judge for themselves?

Well Fred, if I do that, that would mean I know where he is today and who he is today and that I could point him out but I cant do that cos I dont know where he is but I have a strong feeling in what direction I shall be looking.

I have tried to point you guys in the right direction and I have showed you why it was important to have a real guy die on a "plane" but you insist to get blown away by a bullshit thing at the corner of an eye, haha thats all you got and it makes me question what the hell you are looking at and dont you see the big picture?

I cant teach you guys how to figure out if the audio is a match or not but I can tell you, I can and I have the equipment to do it, and Angells voice is not the same as Ratz, not even close.

I will post one more time why its impossible for Angell to not be a real guy and dont get me wrong cos I am not saying Angell is his real name but I am saying someone played the part of Angell being a real guy in Holy-Wood just as Barbara played the part being in a loving relationship with Ted.

There is a reason the guy with the name Angell was real and the reason is:

It was easy and could not have been done in any other way cos they needed a real guy with a high profile.

He was the commercial they needed that had cred and he was sold in the beginning by all famous people that had meet him, and the selling was that real people actually died on a "plane" and they got the commercial without paying one cent for it cos Holy-wood Actors are real people and just as stupid as the rest of the world and they believed 9/11 was a real event.

I will write you a little script

Famous Actor being part of the Angell shows for 11 years is getting interviewed on Letterman or Leno after 9/11.
Conversation talk show after 9/11:

Letterman:
Its a tragedy what has happened to our country and you have worked with a writer/producer/creator Mr. David Angell on your successful show that has been on air for 11 years. We have information he was on Flight 11 that slammed into the north tower.

Actor:
Yea, I heard that and I cant imagine what it was like for those poor people on that Flight.

Letterman:
We have information he was on that Flight with his wife and it must have been horrific, so how do you feel? can you describe your relationship with the guy and when was the last time you meet him before this catastrophic event?

Actor:
Well Dave, you might think this is strange but there is not much I can say cos I never met the guy.


Whooosch,Baam, Cabooooom, ?#"&*^?????????????


Could never happen, bad commercial and not selling what was needed.


What was needed the days right after 9/11 was to sell emotion, identification, hero, all American guy, worked his way up, the American dream crushed by terrorists, I could go on but you know what I mean and all famous people sold it without knowing it was a lie.

It was important for the Psyop guys to have famous people say they knew a real person that was killed cos then the window in TV viewers mind was open to that all people killed was real.

Do you see now why they could not have a Fake Angell.

There would be to much risk cos you need to ask every low life Actor and showbiz guy in Holy-wood when someone put a mic in their face to be in on it and that cant happen, to much risk..

What I think was going on with Angell is that the Psyop guys knew that every showbiz guy in Holy-Wood was going to sell the lie for them without even knowing it, God I am impressed of the Psyop guys at Pentagon/Stratcom.

I can honestly say I have a Love/Hate relationship with the Psyop guys cos I hate what they are doing but I am impressed of how good they are on what they are doing.

Best
D.Duck


EDIT: Simon, of course he and Barbara is in the same Vicsim pool as all the rest and gets the same treatment as all the others.

[simonshack]

Dduck,

I have an idea.

Let's contact all the actors of Frasier and Cheers and ask them what they think of the David Angell tributes/obituaries to be found on the internet.
Surely, they can't ALL be so stupid to say that the tributes sound normal and legit?