Truth Movement

[TVPwilldo]

Isn't it a stretch and even unfair to categorize people in the movement as 'complicit' or perp actors or what have you simply because they believe planes hit the towers? If 100million people believe 9/11 was an inside job but each person has a different theory on how it was pulled off, there still is no reason for division within this group regardless of how 'wild' the theories. It would seem smartest to unite on what we agree on that is also most relevant...that being a gov. cover up and the need for a new investigation.

[simonshack]

Isn't it a stretch and even unfair to categorize people in the movement as 'complicit' or perp actors or what have you simply because they believe planes hit the towers? If 100million people believe 9/11 was an inside job but each person has a different theory on how it was pulled off, there still is no reason for division within this group regardless of how 'wild' the theories. It would seem smartest to unite on what we agree on that is also most relevant...that being a gov. cover up and the need for a new investigation.

Dear TVP,

No one here is 'categorizing' anyone on the basis of what any given individual believes. Please do not get confused about this crucial aspect of this important battle. We are certainly calling out the rotten elements (a.k.a. "gatekeepers") of the truth movement and will be doing so relentlessly: they are among the foremost obstacles to the 'new investigations' (but let's call them 'trials' or 'indictments') we all aim for.

As you surely know, no court trial can even take place in the absence of court-admissible evidence. Furthermore, no trial will lead to indictments in the absence of incontrovertible elements of proof. Let me make an example which hopefully will sound reasonable and logical to you:

If, say, Richard Gage and his lot get their day in court, they will (predictably) present their case as per the 'evidence' they illustrate on their website.
On day one of this hypothetical courtcase, this is what the governmental defense lawyers will (predictably) demand:

Government lawyer:
-"Well, Mr. Gage: can you produce any verifiable evidence that the World Trade Center was brought down by 'controlled demolition'?"

Richard Gage:
- "Yes we have determined scientifically and beyond reasonable doubt that samples of the WTC rubble are laced with nano-thermite, a potent military-grade explosive."

Government lawyer:
- "Very well. Who tells me that your rubble-samples are to be trusted? Who tells me your errr...no-no thermite - is that what you called it? - wasn't added in there by yourself? Can you provide a verifiable chain of custody for those samples, Mr Gage?"

Richard Gage:
- "Uh, well I...I ...

And the case would be dismissed. Simple as that.

The point is: no matter if 1- or 10 - or 100 million people get their day in court, none of them will go anywhere without verifiable and demonstrable evidence.

[fbenario]

Isn't it a stretch and even unfair to categorize people in the movement as 'complicit' or perp actors or what have you simply because they believe planes hit the towers? If 100million people believe 9/11 was an inside job but each person has a different theory on how it was pulled off, there still is no reason for division within this group regardless of how 'wild' the theories. It would seem smartest to unite on what we agree on that is also most relevant...that being a gov. cover up and the need for a new investigation.

You sound just like one of the shills on the perp sites like 9/11blogger, insisting that we only ask for a new investigation, instead of showing the world exactly how they were mislead. Sorry, that's a massive fail.

That's NOT the most relevant or important desire. If the world isn't taught their beloved government/mainstream media lied to them so everyone would support the mass murder/war crimes of killing millions overseas, the sheeple will believe whatever pablum is fed them next.

We have proved conclusively that the media fakery images/videos shown the sheeple on 9/11 created the fabrications that everyone believes now. There were no planes, no victims, no hijackers, and no Muslims on 9/11. That's not a theory, it's a proof.

You're required to familiarize yourself with this site's media fakery work/research before posting here.

[TVPwilldo]

"The point is: no matter if 1- or 10 - or 100 million people get their day in court, none of them will go anywhere without verifiable and demonstrable evidence."

From what I know, the findings of Gage, Jones, Harrit et. al on the thermite, chain of custody, testing, etc. has all been published. Until refuted via the same peer review process it is as solid as a case as any of foul play. Furthermore, if it is on the strength of that case that we ultimately see 'trails', that shouldn't concern anyone as long as ALL the evidence, including that involving video forgery/manipulation - is seen when it has to be.

[Brutal Metal]

Isn't it a stretch and even unfair to categorize people in the movement as 'complicit' or perp actors or what have you simply because they believe planes hit the towers? If 100million people believe 9/11 was an inside job but each person has a different theory on how it was pulled off, there still is no reason for division within this group regardless of how 'wild' the theories. It would seem smartest to unite on what we agree on that is also most relevant...that being a gov. cover up and the need for a new investigation.

It's the fact that dudes like Alex Jones and Avery etc.. are 100% Against the "No Planes" theory! When people ask them about it it's an IMMEDIATE "Let's Switch the subject cause planes DID hit the towers!" They won't accept it or maybe they do know the REAL TRUTH but won't admit it!! It's on THEM not us!!

[Maat]

TVP,

What Simon, fbenario & Brutal Metal have explained to you is true.

I would also point out that the key to awakening everyone to the truth about 9-11 is to identify and expose the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Anything less would be self-defeating and destructive, as a half truth is worse than a total lie, sending people off track to tar pits of confusion and dead ends.

The disinfo agents, 'gatekeepers', dupes or "useful idiots" promoting anything that serves the propagandized myth of "planes" and "victims" become the proverbial "flies in the ointment" ? or to use the modern vernacular, "turds in the punchbowl" ? (whether deliberate or misguided) that contaminate the work of those of us trying to fully expose the total hoax it was and thereby indict all the real perpetrators.

[TVPwilldo]

Thanks for the replies and I understand the common concern here. I can't explain why a group like AE911truth for ex, with all of their efforts to open the minds of people are not open minded enough themselves to consider there might be other aspects of the attacks they are completely wrong about. You have nothing as a scientist if not the willingness to be proven wrong.

Nonetheless, the video forgery aspect is not the only one that needs explaining or that contains conclusive evidence. We do KNOW there were CD’s that day and so the manner in which over 260 stories of steel structure was destroyed is no less significant than any other piece of the puzzle, especially if it provides traceability back to the culprits.

Obviously it would be ideal to have an entire movement united TODAY with everyone in agreement on the best approach but that's not the case. We know the wall of resistance we're up against so from where I'm sitting, the key is getting the investigation by ANY MEANS possible on the strentgth of whatever evidence is most convincing. At such time, the ONLY thing that will matter is applying MASSIVE pressure on a united front to ensure ALL evidence is considered and the WHOLE truth gets revealed. If truthers still can't put aside their egos to make that the top priority then we never had a chance to begin with.

As for no victims, I understand that no planes means no passenger victims but isn’t it likely that people were killed in the two tower explosions? What about people trapped in the windows and the 200 or so that reportedly jumped and the related videos? If the buildings were all evacuated, then stories from Willie Rodriguez and others about narrowly escaping would all have to be lies, correct? What about Barry Jennings and his report of ‘stepping over bodies’ while leaving WTC7? These are just questions as I am looking to understand what percentage of the 2,976 alleged victims are believed to be fake.

[hoi.polloi]

Video forgery on a coordinated network-to-network scale (see Simon's video SYNCHED OUT here: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=9P9k7Et4zUk)) implies that the videographers went forward with their broadcasts with the full confidence that no contradictory information would ever be released by an amateur videographer or refuting report on another news network.

Look at the banner at the top of this forum to see what kind of players were involved.

Have you ever even seen such a concerted mass effort to hypnotize the public before?

There is no "real" video of 9/11. Every video article released by a station about 9/11 is fabricated and scripted.

Does that answer your question?

My question to you would be: which source told you there were 2,900-some alleged victims and not the 3,100 reported elsewhere? How about CNN's 2,998? Wikipedia's number? Why should there be any question whatsoever about the number of victims you are apparently trying to trace - unless the numbers are being steadily doubted as the evidence against any victims comes to light?

What credible source of information - which absolutely did not support the lie of real video on 9/11 - ever gave you any number of dead people? Who died? Tell us their names. Give us information that contradicts the idea that nobody died.

Read the Vicsim Report: http://septemberclues.info/vicsims.htm

[simonshack]

As for no victims, I understand that no planes means no passenger victims but isn’t it likely that people were killed in the two tower explosions? What about people trapped in the windows and the 200 or so that reportedly jumped and the related videos? If the buildings were all evacuated, then stories from Willie Rodriguez and others about narrowly escaping would all have to be lies, correct? What about Barry Jennings and his report of ‘stepping over bodies’ while leaving WTC7? These are just questions as I am looking to understand what percentage of the 2,976 alleged victims are believed to be fake.

TVP,

It is unreasonable to expect us to lead every single newcomer to this forum through the vast body of topics already examined throughout our longstanding research. Before you submit any further questions, I will have to ask you to look for the many answers you may find here by looking for them by yourself:

Please use the search function of the forum (top right of screen) by using keywords such as "Richard Gage", "Willy Rodriguez", "Barry Jennings" and so forth. Those 3 individuals, for instance, have long been exposed as gatekeepers of the truth. It is essential for you to understand just how many such cointelpro characters have been placed at the very forefront of the truth movement in order to lead it astray. You will soon comprehend how utterly senseless it would be to "unite for the sake of our common goal" when the goal of these characters is precisely to stop the relevant issues from being tackled.

And once again, NO: the manner in which the WTC complex was demolished is NOT one of these issues. Let me try to put it this way: arson is perhaps the most unpunished of all crimes. If someone wants to destroy a forest he ignites some gasoline with a matchstick and runs away. It will be hard enough for the authorities to find the culprit if he leaves no traces of himself. Now, imagine if the culprit also had the means to REMOVE ALL THE ASH of the burned-out forest. That's what the 9/11 culprits were able to do. How would anyone possibly prove anything with nothing left to examine?

Were there people in the 'WTC forest' - did someone jump to their death from the trees? Unlikely. Arsonists habitually have no murderous intents: the most common motive for arson (at least here in Italy with its local Mafia) is profit: when some woodland is cleared, developers get to build housing on that land.

Here is why I have strong reasons to believe that no one died:
THE MEMORIAL SCAMS
http://septemberclues.info/vicsims_photo-analyses.htm

Oh - and the "jumper' images are proven fakes too:
THE JUMPERS:
http://septemberclues.info/jumpers.htm

[TruthNow]

Did you check the names of the members of Victims' Families 9/11 for Truth?

And another question: Is achimspok`s debunk incorrect? Thx!

[simonshack]

- Did you check the names of the members of Victims' Families 9/11 for Truth?

- And another question: Is achimspok`s debunk incorrect? Thx!

- Yes.

- Yes.

[Brutal Metal]

wouldn't it be funny if someone found out that high profile victims like Olsen and Angell turned up sipping Pina Coladas on a Caribbean island with Fat Bank accounts and Posh residences? Stranger things have surely happened!! :D

[Dcopymope]

wouldn't it be funny if someone found out that high profile victims like Olsen and Angell turned up sipping Pina Coladas on a Caribbean island with Fat Bank accounts and Posh residences? Stranger things have surely happened!! :D

Yeah, just like the seven alleged hijackers that turned up alive. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hoi.polloi]

wouldn't it be funny if someone found out that high profile victims like Olsen and Angell turned up sipping Pina Coladas on a Caribbean island with Fat Bank accounts and Posh residences? Stranger things have surely happened!! :D

Yeah, just like the seven alleged hijackers that turned up alive. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a simulation, guys.

If you buy the sims, you are essentially selling your soul to SimCity :P

They play around with these things - Mr.Sim hijacked this, Mr.Sim turned up alive here, Mr.Sim is "in" on it ... it's just a computer program doll being danced in your view in different scenarios.

[Brutal Metal]

wouldn't it be funny if someone found out that high profile victims like Olsen and Angell turned up sipping Pina Coladas on a Caribbean island with Fat Bank accounts and Posh residences? Stranger things have surely happened!! :D

Yeah, just like the seven alleged hijackers that turned up alive. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a simulation, guys.

If you buy the sims, you are essentially selling your soul to SimCity :P

They play around with these things - Mr.Sim hijacked this, Mr.Sim turned up alive here, Mr.Sim is "in" on it ... it's just a computer program doll being danced in your view in different scenarios.

I thought it was determined that Olsen and Angell were Real people?