THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
icarusinbound
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by icarusinbound » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:54 pm

Within the context of the strange Paris saga, the BBC appear to have coincidently chosen this weekend to launch a 12-part French language (English subtitled) murder drama "Spiral".

No, I can't think of such a mediaform ever having been launched in Britain before.

Oh, and the topic (according to the programme guide popup) is a murdered Policeman....

(Did France get rid of 'Gendarmes', back in the days of The Pink Panther, and replace them all with Police, I wonder?)

fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:23 am

icarusinbound wrote:Within the context of the strange Paris saga, the BBC appear to have coincidently chosen this weekend to launch a 12-part French language (English subtitled) murder drama "Spiral".

No, I can't think of such a mediaform ever having been launched in Britain before.
Spiral was first shown in England way back in 2006. Wiki:
Spiral is a French television police and legal drama series set in Paris. The show follows the lives and work of Parisian police officers and the lawyers and judges who work at the Palais de Justice. It was created by the TV production company Son et Lumière.
..
Spiral has been a great export success, with sales to broadcasters in some 70 countries, among them Australia, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom. The series was first shown in the UK on BBC Four during the summer of 2006. It was the channel's first French-language drama series, attracting a modest but loyal audience (around 200,000) and firm critical approval. On 13 September 2009, BBC Four started showing the second series,[6] on 2 April 2011 the third series and on 9 February 2013 the fourth series.

hoi.polloi
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Forcing depression medication on people

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:17 am

Went for a routine check up the other day. Was handed this questionnaire with no reason given. It is reproduced here, by hand, for purposes of critical review:
Over the last 2 weeks, how often have you been
bothered by any of the following problems?
(use "[check mark]" to indicate your answer)

[Note: options are rated "Not at all", "Several days", "More than half the days", "Nearly every day". No option is given for "rarely" or "every day" or ... bolds are my own ... ]

1. Little interest or pleasure in doing things
2. Feeling down, depressed, or hopeless
3. Trouble falling or staying asleep, or sleeping too much [!]
4. Feeling tired or having little energy
5. Poor appetite or overeating [!]
6. Feeling bad about yourself — or that you are a failure or have let yourself or your family down [FFS, are there any surprising situations in life that don't qualify as depression?]
7. Trouble concentrating on things, such as reading the newspaper or watching television [!!!]
8. Moving or speaking so slowly that other people could have noticed. Or the opposite [!!?!] — being so figety [sic] or restless that you have been moving around a lot more than usual [!?!?!]
9. Thoughts that you would be better off dead, or of hurting yourself

[and their emphasis, not mine ...]

10. If you checked off any problems, how difficult have these problems made it for you to do your work, take care of things at home, or get along with other people? [Options are: "Not difficult at all", "Somewhat difficult", "Very difficult" and "Extremely difficult"]
So let me get this straight. If nearly every day, I feel sad about a thing or merely don't enjoy something, and I have too much energy or not enough, eat less or eat more than a previous pattern, feel an obligation toward family or toward myself, and I dislike reading the newspaper or watching television, and I so much as entertain philosophical concepts of existentialism or contemplate self-sacrifice on some level, and if any of these things — which make up my character — cause the natural human element of differing viewpoints, which cause the majority of interpersonal conflicts ... I am "depressed"?

Says who?
Copyright 1999 Pfizer Inc. ... PRIME-MD is a trademark of Pfizer, Inc.
Oh. Zoloft. Of course!

The over-diagnosis of clinical depression to sell snake oil pills with mostly placebo effect is one of the biggest fucking scams in history. My god, it reminds me of what kind of shitty treatment I got as a kid who naturally saw things more casually, more optimistically or just differently ... and all the money my generation's parents and the next have sunk into Freudian solutions! Thank the heavens it's minimally effective at treating any symptoms for those who escape it! I have only anecdotal evidence from friends that therapists do them any good, and by their own admission it is 99% of the time for want of opportunity to simply make and be with friends.

And this was handed to me before the Doc asked me if I'd recently hopped on a plane to chase after and contract Ebola! Luckily, there didn't seem to be any difference about whether I actually filled this sheet out or not so I took it with me to show friends and laugh at.

I suspect pharmaceuticals are behind a lot of these PsyOps, and hence why doctors are "helplessly" led to rattle off the latest hype to every customer. It is plausible that Big Pharma is even working in tandem with law enforcement and the military-industry lobbies to argue that a duped, fraudulently terrorized populace is a Visa card-carrying medicated, dependent and docile populace that watches TV for simulated creature comforts of cultural acceptance.

icarusinbound
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by icarusinbound » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:52 am

fbenario wrote: Spiral was first shown in England way back in 2006. Wiki:
Curious, I don't remember this being broadcast back then at all. Apologies - so, my perception of a coincidence regarding a (unseen, but just by me) French language Police forensics murder drama must just be in the timing of a relaunch, not a first airing.

I wonder if any other of the recipient countries you list happen to also have chosen this weekend for a (re)launch of an au Francaise CSI murder mystery TV series? In this case, two back-to-back 50 minutes programmes according to last night's schedule

Critical Mass
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Re: Forcing depression medication on people

Unread post by Critical Mass » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:45 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Went for a routine check up the other day. Was handed this questionnaire with no reason given. It is reproduced here, by hand, for purposes of critical review:

1. Little interest or pleasure in watching TV
2. Feeling like there might be something wrong with the TV
3. Trouble falling asleep or staying awake infront of the TV
4. Feeling bored by or having little time for the TV
5. Poor appetite infront of the TV
6. Feeling bad about the TV — or that is a failure or has let itself or your family down?
7. Trouble concentrating on reading the newspaper or watching television
8. Moving or speaking slowly whilst walking past TV’s in such a manner that other people could have noticed. Or the opposite — being figety or restless infront of a TV.
9. Thoughts that you would be better turning the TV off or even hurting the TV.
10.Feelings of Nausea &/or disgust whilst watching TV.
11. If you checked off any problems, how difficult have these problems made it for you to do your work, continue to discuss the ‘issues of the day’, or get along with other TV watchers? [Options are: "Not difficult at all", "Somewhat difficult", "Very difficult" and "Extremely difficult"]


Then watch September Clues & get on down to Cluesforum... we have just the cure.

Maat
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Re: Forcing depression medication on people

Unread post by Maat » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:09 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Went for a routine check up the other day. Was handed this questionnaire with no reason given. It is reproduced here, by hand, for purposes of critical review:
Over the last 2 weeks, how often have you been
bothered by any of the following problems?
(use "[check mark]" to indicate your answer)

[Note: options are rated "Not at all", "Several days", "More than half the days", "Nearly every day". No option is given for "rarely" or "every day" or ... bolds are my own ... ]

1. Little interest or pleasure in doing things
2. Feeling down, depressed, or hopeless
3. Trouble falling or staying asleep, or sleeping too much [!]
4. Feeling tired or having little energy
5. Poor appetite or overeating [!]
6. Feeling bad about yourself — or that you are a failure or have let yourself or your family down [FFS, are there any surprising situations in life that don't qualify as depression?]
7. Trouble concentrating on things, such as reading the newspaper or watching television [!!!]
8. Moving or speaking so slowly that other people could have noticed. Or the opposite [!!?!] — being so figety [sic] or restless that you have been moving around a lot more than usual [!?!?!]
9. Thoughts that you would be better off dead, or of hurting yourself

[and their emphasis, not mine ...]

10. If you checked off any problems, how difficult have these problems made it for you to do your work, take care of things at home, or get along with other people? [Options are: "Not difficult at all", "Somewhat difficult", "Very difficult" and "Extremely difficult"]
[...]

I suspect pharmaceuticals are behind a lot of these PsyOps, and hence why doctors are "helplessly" led to rattle off the latest hype to every customer. It is plausible that Big Pharma is even working in tandem with law enforcement and the military-industry lobbies to argue that a duped, fraudulently terrorized populace is a Visa card-carrying medicated, dependent and docile populace that watches TV for simulated creature comforts of cultural acceptance.
Geez, they’re getting even more blatant & “in your face” with their drug pushing tactics! :wacko:

I posted this song parody a while back, created by Texas bluegrass band the Austin Lounge Lizards (2006), lampooning drug companies' billion-dollar marketing budgets, serious side effects & high cost:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtWIjudMZ_Q

Lyric:
"The Drugs I Need"

You’ve got a headache
And I’ve got some strange disease
Don’t worry about it
This pill will set your mind at ease

It’s called Progenitorivox
It’s made by SquabbMerlCo
It’s a life enhancing miracle
But there are some things you should know

It may cause agitation
Palpitations
Excessive salivation
Constipation
Male lactation
Rust colored urination
Hallucinations
Bad vibrations
Mild electric shock sensations
But it’s worth it
For the drugs I need

My disease may not be fatal
But I can ease my fears
By taking two twelve dollar pills
Each day for fifty years
They’ve spent billions to convince me
So now I realize
Progenitorivox
Beats diet and exercise!

I’ve got insurance
At least for now I do
And if I buy generic
It would cut my cost in two
But I want Progenitorivox!
‘cause I saw it on TV
Those families look so functional
That paisley pill’s for me

But it may cause
Deprivation
Humiliation
Debtor’s prison and deportation
Dark depictions
Dire predictions
Life as seen in Dickens fiction
Empty pockets
Court dockets
May cause eyes to pop from sockets
But it’s worth it
For the drugs I need
But it’s worth it…
In Canada, they get this for a song!
But it’s worth it
For the drugs I need

The opinions expressed in this song are not necessarily those of SquabbMerlCo or its subsidiaries. Progenitorivox is not available, anywhere. Offer void in Wisconsin. Any resemblance to actual drugs, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Any unauthorized use of your judgment in the application of Progenitorivox is strictly prohibited. Progenitorivox may not be reproduced without the expressed written consent of Major League Baseball. Progenitorivox may cause drowsiness or restlessness in lab animals. Do not resume sexual activity while operating heavy machinery without consulting your physician. For erections lasting longer than four hours, insert your own joke here. If you experience psychotic episodes, you’re crazy. If death occurs, discontinue use of Progenitorivox immediately. If symptoms persist, consult your physician. All sales final. Batteries not included."
http://www.madmusic.com/song_details.aspx?SongID=15422



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7IEeqhe9mc

Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:02 pm

Don't you just sodding hate it when Cluesforum is described as a Conspiracy Theory website?
praktik wrote:Actually while there may be some evidence showing clusters of paranoid/schizo in the furthest fringe of conspiracy theory these are the very very tiny minority.

Perhaps what fascinates me about CT ideas and places like cluesforum is how otherwise smart/intelligent people get caught up in it. Once you unlock that understanding you can begin to see how the pitfalls in reasoning that lead people to these conclusions are common pitfalls that any of us can (and do) fall prey to in our daily lives (they just fall victim to MORE of them) - but probably its the social/cultural/tribal drive that binds them to the CT movement as they begin to self-identify with the group. In fact it's probably not so much mental illness, or any given logical gap in reasoning that leads people to these places - rather more it is the stance these groups take against authority and the community feeling they get from the group that gets them.

Anyway I've long since stopped ascribing the root of these ideas to stupidity or mental illness - maybe it's cause I have a few True Believers in my family and personal life that helped me humanize them.
The guy seems harmless enough... he likes his games & TV shows... either way I found this link thanks to him.

10 Questions To Distinguish Real From Fake Science
1. What is the source? Is the person or entity making the claims someone with genuine expertise in what they’re claiming? Are they hawking on behalf of someone else? Are they part of a distributed marketing scam? Do they use, for example, a Website or magazine or newspaper ad that’s made to look sciencey or newsy when it’s really one giant advertisement meant to make you think it’s journalism?

2. What is the agenda? You must know this to consider any information in context. In a scientific paper, look at the funding sources. If you’re reading a non-scientific anything, remain extremely skeptical. What does the person or entity making the claim get out of it? Does it look like they’re telling you you have something wrong with you that you didn’t even realize existed…and then offering to sell you something to fix it? I’m reminded of the douche solution commercials of my youth in which a young woman confides in her mother that sometimes, she “just doesn’t feel fresh.” Suddenly, millions of women watching that commercial were mentally analyzing their level of freshness “down there” and pondering whether or not to purchase Summer’s Eve.

3. What kind of language does it use? Does it use emotion words or a lot of exclamation points or language that sounds highly technical (amino acids! enzymes! nucleic acids!) or jargon-y but that is really meaningless in the therapeutic or scientific sense? If you’re not sure, take a term and google it, or ask a scientist if you can find one. Sometimes, an amino acid is just an amino acid. Be on the lookout for sciencey-ness. As Albert Einstein once pointed out, if you can’t explain something simply, you don’t understand it well. If peddlers feel that they have to toss in a bunch of jargony science terms to make you think they’re the real thing, they probably don’t know what they’re talking about, either.

4. Does it involve testimonials? If all the person or entity making the claims has to offer is testimonials without any real evidence of effectiveness or need, be very, very suspicious. Anyone–anyone–can write a testimonial and put it on a Website. Example: ”I felt that I knew nothing about science until The Science Consumer blog came along! Now, my brain is packed with science facts, and I’m earning my PhD in aerospace engineering this year! If it could do it for me, The Science Consumer blog can do it for you, too! THANKS, SCIENCE CONSUMER BLOG! –xoxo, Julie C., North Carolina”

5. Are there claims of exclusivity? People have been practicing science and medicine for thousands of years. Millions of people are currently doing it. Typically, new findings arise out of existing knowledge and involve the contributions of many, many people. It’s quite rare–in fact, I can’t think of an example–that a new therapy or intervention is something completely novel without a solid existing scientific background to explain how it works, or that only one person figures it out. It certainly wouldn’t just suddenly appear one night on an infomercial. Also, watch for words like “proprietary” and “secret.” These terms signal that the intervention on offer has likely not been exposed to the light of scientific critique.

6. Is there mention of a conspiracy of any kind? Claims such as, “Doctors don’t want you to know” or “the government has been hiding this information for years,” are extremely dubious. Why wouldn’t the millions of doctors in the world want you to know about something that might improve your health? Doctors aren’t a monolithic entity in an enormous white coat making collective decisions about you any more than the government is some detached nonliving institution making robotic collective decisions. They’re all individuals, and in general, they do want you to know.

7. Does the claim involve multiple unassociated disorders? Does it involve assertions of widespread damage to many body systems (in the case of things like vaccines) or assertions of widespread therapeutic benefit to many body systems or a spectrum of unrelated disorders? Claims, for example, that a specific intervention will cure cancer, allergies, ADHD, and autism (and I am not making that up) are frankly irrational.

8. Is there a money trail or a passionate belief involved? The least likely candidates to benefit fiscally from conclusions about any health issue or intervention are the researchers in the trenches working on the underpinnings of disease (genes, environmental triggers, etc.), doing the basic science. The likeliest candidates to benefit are those who (1) have something patentable on their hands; (2) market “cures” or “therapies”; (3) write books or give paid talks or “consult”; or (4) work as “consultants” who “cure.” That’s not to say that people who benefit fiscally from research or drug development aren’t trustworthy. Should they do it for free? No. But it’s always, always important to follow the money. Another issue that’s arisen around pseudoscience is whether or not a bias of passionate belief is as powerful as fiscal motivation. If you have a bias detector, turn it on to full power when evaluating any scientific claim. If yours is faulty–which you might not realize because of bias–perhaps you can find someone in real life or online with a hypersensitive bias detector. Journalists, by nature of training and their work, often seem to operate theirs on full power.

9. Were real scientific processes involved? Evidence-based interventions generally go through many steps of a scientific process before they come into common use. Going through these steps includes performing basic research using tests in cells and in animals, clinical research with patients/volunteers in several heavily regulated phases, peer-review at each step of the way, and a trail of published research papers. Is there evidence that the product or intervention on offer has been tested scientifically, with results published in scientific journals? Or is it just sciencey-ness espoused by people without benefit of expert review of any kind?

10. Is there expertise? Finally, no matter how much you dislike “experts” or disbelieve the “establishment,” the fact remains that people who have an MD or a science PhD or both after their names have gone to school for 24 years or longer, receiving an in-depth, daily, hourly education in the issues they’re discussing. If they’re specialists in their fields, tack on about five more years. If they’re researchers in their fields, tack on more. They’re not universally blind or stupid or venal or uncaring or in it for the money; in fact, many of them are exactly the opposite. If they’re doing research, usually they’re not Rockefellers. Note that having “PhD” or even “MD” after a name or “Dr” before it doesn’t automatically mean that the degree or the honorific relates to expertise in the subject at hand. I have a PhD in biology. If I wrote a book about chemical engineering and slapped the term PhD on there, that still doesn’t make me an expert in chemical engineering. And I’m just one person with one expert voice in the things I do know well. I recommend listening to more than one expert voice.

There is nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but there is also nothing wrong in acknowledging that a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing, that there are really people out there whose in-depth educations and experience better qualify them to address certain issues. However, caveat emptor, as always. Given that even MDs and PhDs can be disposed to acquisitiveness just like those snake-oil salesmen, never forget to look for the money. Always, always follow the money.

So if we use these questions with Nukes we get...

1. The military
2. Bluff, money, fear & control
3. Oh yes
4. Oh yes... testimonials that'll make you lose your eyeballs
5. 'Top secret' Nuclear science secrets... check another one
6. Conspiracies... check
7. Oh just a few
8. Yes & yep... Cash & belief... the two fundamentals of the Nuclear story.
9. Civilian scientists do not research Nuclear weapons... top secret you see
10. Oh there are 'experts' all right... they're just not very good.


Quite a useful little list of questions really.

Thanks praktik.

Maat
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Maat » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:45 pm


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSJ8tvdM-FM
FUKITOL-pill.jpg
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hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:05 pm

Critical Mass wrote:Don't you just sodding hate it when Cluesforum is described as a Conspiracy Theory website?
Actually while there may be some evidence showing clusters of paranoid/schizo in the furthest fringe of conspiracy theory these are the very very tiny minority.

Perhaps what fascinates me about CT ideas and places like cluesforum is how otherwise smart/intelligent people get caught up in it. Once you unlock that understanding you can begin to see how the pitfalls in reasoning that lead people to these conclusions are common pitfalls that any of us can (and do) fall prey to in our daily lives (they just fall victim to MORE of them) - but probably its the social/cultural/tribal drive that binds them to the CT movement as they begin to self-identify with the group. In fact it's probably not so much mental illness, or any given logical gap in reasoning that leads people to these places - rather more it is the stance these groups take against authority and the community feeling they get from the group that gets them.

Anyway I've long since stopped ascribing the root of these ideas to stupidity or mental illness - maybe it's cause I have a few True Believers in my family and personal life that helped me humanize them.
Sounds like this person is projecting their own attraction to "tribal" belonging. But I guess you go with what you know when venturing into new territory. They certainly didn't venture very far from their cozy belief that they are mentally superior to those pointing out tribal behavior in our government.

Does anyone here really "self-identify" with a social/cultural/tribal drive that binds people to a "Conspiracy Theory" movement?

I think that's a piss poor description of pretty much everyone's motivations here. People seem to be on here because they are either critical thinkers or they hate critical thinkers and they want to disrupt thoughtful discussions. I don't know anyone who joins a "CT movement" on CluesForum unless they are a troll or they are pushing us to "belong" to such a "movement". They are confusing scientific/forensic research for Alex Jones' Prison Planet.

Seneca
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Re: Forcing depression medication on people

Unread post by Seneca » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:13 pm

Maat wrote:Geez, they’re getting even more blatant & “in your face” with their drug pushing tactics! :wacko:
This reminds me of a caricature I saw by Stéphane Charbonnier aka Charb, let him rest in peace.
I am not going to reproduce his ugly drawings, just the text:
"doctor: Et quand vos problèmes ont-ils commencé?
patient: Quand j'ai lu la campagne publicitaire pour la depression.

translation:
doctor: And when have your problems started?
patient: When I read the publicity campaign for depression."

brianv
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:22 pm

brianv wrote: One day I will count the number footsteps from where I stood to the exact spot where a car-bomb exploded. I reckon it's about one hundred
Close - I just counted 97 steps while in town with my son.

hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:23 pm

Had anyone been in the car? Or near it? Was it a "story" or was it lost to a history of violence?

brianv
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:19 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:Had anyone been in the car? Or near it? Was it a "story" or was it lost to a history of violence?
Nobody in the car, there was a time-bomb planted in it to kill civilians, which it did. No, it's quite well documented but I'd rather not say too much...except that I knew one of the victims to see, I witnessed their injuries many times in later years.

I do have a lot of private thoughts about the who's, why's and where's, but I'd rather not say any more. :puke:

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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:12 pm

T21
[debunker mode ON]
As far as I remember fresh flowers are quite easy to buy in Paris every single day, in most boulevards and in main metro station.
Having worked with French colleagues and in Paris I remember for instance that a bouquet de fleurs is quite a common present for a colleague or friend's birthday.
Therefore I find possible that the occasional everyday Joe Charlie bought a rose "in loving memory" of the fallen.
[debunker mode OFF]
Joe Charlie indeed.

This type of post might be acceptable on Prisonplanet or some other numpty charlie forum. We are not here to "debunk" each other.
Do you have some evidence to back up your statement? You see, I live in a European Capital and I'm a gardener, and we don't give each other flowers on birthdays here :rolleyes: much! So where do the Parisiens get their roses in mid-winter? Do they have them flown in from the Colonies?

"of the fallen"?? Why the dumb militaristic fanboy terminology? You mean the knuckle dragging low life scum that joined the army and got killed? Hurrah,
I say!

Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:33 pm

brianv wrote: Joe Charlie indeed.

This type of post might be acceptable on Prisonplanet or some other numpty charlie forum. We are not here to "debunk" each other.
Do you have some evidence to back up your statement? You see, I live in a European Capital and I'm a gardener, and we don't give each other flowers on birthdays here :rolleyes: much! So where do the Parisiens get their roses in mid-winter? Do they have them flown in from the Colonies?
If I understand the statement correctly T21 was playing devils advocate... hence [Debunker mode]. He says he lived in Paris & there are lots of flower shops there. This, to me, is not derailment of a thread... but an observation.

I've never been to Paris so I cannot say for sure if there's any deception going on here... but it doesn't seem an unlikely observation to me.

Perhaps he should be more specific & drop the [debunker mode]... but I think you're being a little harsh.
You mean the knuckle dragging low life scum that joined the army and got killed? Hurrah, I say!
Victims of psyops are just that... victims. Our societies are designed to have a constant flow of poor & young cannon fodder join the military & fight "the good fights" that they do. I suppose you could cheer this on... I find it rather distasteful to be honest.

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