THE "CHATBOX"

[Maat]

That's why my internets takes a dive when the soaps are finished!

What women with any brains watch that rubbish? I guess it's equivalent to the men addicted to their sports programs, eh

[pshea38]

Maat, you are dead wrong about chemtrails.

I have observed these practices continually over the last 2-3 years.
On a regular day where I live, there are but a handful of planes observed - all with short lived contrails.
On a chemtrailing day there are many times the normal number of planes- most leaving
huge trails which traverse the sky, before dispersing and joining to eventually cover the sky.
The few days following are nearly always rainy, and especially dull and overcast.
I have witnessed and observed these processes many, many times.
I guess you are lucky if you have not experienced chemtrails up close and personal,
although I believe Australia in general (and New Zealand) is not exempt from these
ugly and worrying practices.

You don't have to believe me of course Maat, but I know what I say here is true.

[Maat]

Pshea38,

Are you a pilot, or researched how different atmospheric conditions, altitude, humidity etc. determine how aircraft contrails (vapor trails) form and why some linger/spread and others don't? I can remember watching contrails from jet aircraft as a kid in Australia, fascinated by the way they would often spread into long cirrus clouds. Air traffic has greatly increased in recent decades.

Just because people see something they don't understand and jump to implausible (and logistically impossible) conclusions without learning the real physics and history behind it doesn't make it true. Especially when absolutely no evidence has ever been produced by the "chemtrail theorists" to support their claims, on the contrary.

I would recommend reading the abundant and verifiable facts regarding contrail formation, well documented since WWII, before falling for any of the fear-mongering disinformation. Most subjects are covered in articles on that pilot's site, e.g. http://contrailscience.com/debunked-kmir6-geoegnineering-skies-chemtrails/

[maggie]

Maat, that link may be an elaborate blind/double blind to convince the public that chemtrails don't exist. But they do.
I live in a country area with a big sky view. I see chemtrails a lot. There's a marked difference between contrails and chemtrails, and the aircraft that make either. Chemtrail planes are unmarked, silent white things that fly way above ordinary jets. Sometimes chemtrail craft just disappear suddenly as if they have cloaking abilities.
Chemtrails come in a variety of patterns, from outrageously long trails over the sky, to criss-crosses and X's, and little intermittent toots. I've seen chemtrail planes go straight up in long vertical lines, and then disappear rather than descend in any way. If the patterns are so crazy, then I think the planes are not manned by humans, but possibly computer-controlled.
Although I don't know the purpose of chemtrails, it can't be some benign government program to stem global warming; quite otherwise, more likely to heat up the planet and generally poison everything. Or it could all be to keep us bemused and afraid, and the vapour trails have nothing in them. However, I've also occasionally seen, after heavy spraying, big rainbow-coloured but oily-looking rings in a hazy goo around the sun.
I know you won't back down from your opinion and what you deem to be scientific research, but that link with its sources of "scientific experts" seems like elaborate disinfo as so many sources can be. I have no reason to lie to anyone here and I can't accept the contrail explanation given my direct observations over the last five years.

[Maat]

Maggie,

And your proof is...? I take it you've never been a pilot or researched anything about atmospheric realities either.

Belief in something so outlandish without any testable, verifiable evidence of some sort after 10+ years is hardly sensible or scientific, is it. Much like UFOs, it's based on subjective perceptions from ignorance, unsubstantiated claims, hearsay and rumor. If the people who so eagerly promote the "chemtrails" meme really believed it, they'd be wearing masks 24/7 — but they don't! So what's the supposed 'reasoning'?

Without a willingness to research, read and learn the already known facts on a subject, it is not possible to discuss it logically. Just as it's impossible to explain the physical impossibilities of 9/11 films to anyone who can't/won't grasp or learn the known laws of physics.

This one is no different from all the other fear-mongering 'theories' encouraged and perpetuated to make us all look like lunatics.

Regardless of whether the owner of contrailscience.com believes in anthropogenic global warming or not (as many still do anyway), there is no reason to dismiss his specific, well sourced and verifiable research information on the real physics and history of contrails. Have you bothered to read any of the articles or research further yet? http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/
You can easily check and verify all of it yourself, or just ask any real pilot, FFS!

Historical 1944 footage — (including "broken" contrails):

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOrez6q7WM
http://contrailscience.com/memphis-belle-wwii-bomber-contrails-1944/

Full movie at: http://archive.org/details/TheMemphisBe ... ngFortress

From another pilot:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OT2Nlzsgmg

And another:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TSIKrHD_Sc

[maggie]

Maat, it's not that I believe in how or why chemtrails exist -- I see them in action, and it's not normal behaviour for commercial, conventional flights at all. The patterns are crazy and inhuman.
There are a very few daily jet flights over my part of the world, and these have no, or very short, contrails. These few planes don't account for the massive trails that so frequently spread over the sky prior to rain forecasts.
There's research into chemtrails that is opposite of what you and the link are saying. Maybe some footage of chemtrails on the Internet are phony but not all of them are. It's certainly a phenomenon that some parties would like all of us to be in the dark, confused, afraid and quarrelling about.
I do take it that you don't see chemtrails much where you live, or you too would be more skeptical of the "scientific research" in the links.

[Maat]

Maggie, do you realize you've debunked it yourself by what you said?

Maat, it's not that I believe in how or why chemtrails exist -- I see them in action, and it's not normal behaviour for commercial, conventional flights at all. The patterns are crazy and inhuman.

You "see" what you don't understand so you believe the stories without researching the real cause? How would you know it's "not normal behavior for commercial, conventional flights at all", according to whom? Have you looked up the flight paths of high altitude jet liners (which would not be so easily noticed or even heard at 35 K ft and where the air is colder).

There are a very few daily jet flights over my part of the world, and these have no, or very short, contrails. These few planes don't account for the massive trails that so frequently spread over the sky prior to rain forecasts.

Contrails are only formed when conditions are right, short trails would indicate pockets of more humid air amongst dry (which is why you see the "toot" effect). The appearance of widespreading contrails would obviously be normal prior to precipitation since they are formed in humid air!

There's research into chemtrails that is opposite of what you and the link are saying. Maybe some footage of chemtrails on the Internet are phony but not all of them are. It's certainly a phenomenon that some parties would like all of us to be in the dark, confused, afraid and quarrelling about.

No kidding. And apart from the deliberate joke video (admitted by the pranksters) the rest are misinformation based on ignorance and disinformation.

I do take it that you don't see chemtrails much where you live, or you too would be more skeptical of the "scientific research" in the links.

No, I would not be "more skeptical of the scientific research" which I not only know to be true from experience but because I can and have verified it for myself!

I'm in the southern area of the US, and if I did see more contrails where I live I'd simply know that air traffic over my area had increased. So what's your point?

FYI, I've seen and known what vapor trails are and how they form since the 60s in Australia. I'm also familiar with atmospheric variations between altitudes and learned what different cloud formations mean because I flew gliders in my teens. Without an engine you have to understand air temperature changes and how to read them in order to find lift and gain altitude (from thermals: rising columns of warm air).

I'm done, it's up to you to choose if you want to know or just believe. As they say, you can lead a person to knowledge but you can't make 'em think

[brianv]

Maat, it's not that I believe in how or why chemtrails exist -- I see them in action, and it's not normal behaviour for commercial, conventional flights at all. The patterns are crazy and inhuman.
There are a very few daily jet flights over my part of the world, and these have no, or very short, contrails. These few planes don't account for the massive trails that so frequently spread over the sky prior to rain forecasts.
There's research into chemtrails that is opposite of what you and the link are saying. Maybe some footage of chemtrails on the Internet are phony but not all of them are. It's certainly a phenomenon that some parties would like all of us to be in the dark, confused, afraid and quarrelling about.
I do take it that you don't see chemtrails much where you live, or you too would be more skeptical of the "scientific research" in the links.

I see trails in the sky every day where I live, but I dont ascribe anything nefarious to them other than sky pollution. It certainly is not the Illuminati or aliens from the fifth dimension trying to prepare us for an anal probing session or some such.

Are they running the engines outside manufactures specs? Cheaper to buy a new plane, than have one in service for tens of years perhaps? I'm sure it's for financial reasons whatever.

You dont own an SUV maggie do you?

As Stan Laurel said... "You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead".

[maggie]

Maat, I'm not a pilot -- are you? -- but my grandfather was. I've flown in planes and been around airports, and lived in regions where air traffic routes are fairly heavy. And I don't buy it that what I see in my area in recent years is anything like normal contrails, and the chemtrail planes aren't normal either. If and when the chemtrail planes are visible, they're invariably unmarked, white, long, silent things. Some consider them to be NATO aircraft, but I certainly can't prove that.
The video links you've put up are in the order of "nothing to see here folks, move right along." I'm put off by the condescending, ever-so-logical tone of the narrators, who may or may not be pilots or experts. The dude in the tinfoil hat could have been reading from a script, for instance.
No, I haven't debunked my own argument. You've bought into the verity of those links because they sound so authoritative, as you're supposed to.
Today, as pshea38 described, rain is expected soon in the forecast here, so since this morning the sky has been fanning out into murky, unnatural clouds (clouds that were never up there in those forms and so often since the mid-90s). It can't be attributed to heavy smog from a busy airport or from urban pollution.
I believe that chemtrailing goes hand in hand with HAARP activities to create the droughts we're having, among other possibilities to keep up the fear and the general slow kill.
I really wish you would stop trying to paint me up as a stupid, credulous person who refuses to do research for FACTS, and you as such a brilliant researcher who knows all the facts about this particular phenomenon, when there is a ton of information on the Internet about it either way, some true, some not. Your tone is arrogant and rude. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it's not out there.

[brianv]

How many people have been killed by Haarp? My partner works in the medical profession, one of her patients has just left hospital after nine months, the result of being hit by an SUV.

If the media wants you to look "up", I would look "down".

[maggie]

Brian, I don't know for an utter fact what HAARP has been responsible for, and again, on the Internet there are theories, facts, and attempts to debunk anything pointing fingers at HAARP. But big, nasty, very focused weather events (hurricanes, droughts and earthquakes in particular) have killed many, many thousands of people in recent years (think Katrina, Myanmar, Haiti, Joplin Missouri, China) and it seems escalated by something that pushes weather patterns around to fit some destructive agenda.
I'm trying not to judge anything in too much of a left-brain or right-brain way either way. For instance, right now a lot of explanations are flying around as to what the Aurora shootout was about. Is Holmes a real person? Is he brainwashed, drugged, set up as a patsy because his dad was about to blow the whistle on sensitive information? Were there two assailants? Personally I haven't a clue about the physical facts of that situation.
But the chemtrail thing I have researched in a number of ways. And national flight patterns that I've looked at on the Internet are not a match for what I've been seeing in my environment. The planes involved are weirdly unique. I don't like being told I "don't understand what I'm seeing" by someone who doesn't know me closely enough to know where I've been with research.
I've had to let go of beliefs that embarrass me to think I ever fell for, like Muslims with boxcutters did 911, or dracos from Orion have to be behind things because why is there so much cruelty in this world, or that there's a caring God that will let us into heaven if we believe in Him enough.
It's quite the process to sort this out. I appreciate this site and the people on it for trying to debunk the world surrounding us, but it doesn't stop for a micro-moment with what's presented as real in mainstream or alternative news. Best to watch, wait and not react to the escalating problems presented to us as real, however hard that is. Or else we're none of us better than those who say, "It must be real, I saw it on TV!"

[brianv]

Brian, I don't know for an utter fact what HAARP has been responsible for, and again, on the Internet there are theories, facts, and attempts to debunk anything pointing fingers at HAARP. But big, nasty, very focused weather events (hurricanes, droughts and earthquakes in particular) have killed many, many thousands of people in recent years (think Katrina, Myanmar, Haiti, Joplin Missouri, China) and it seems escalated by something that pushes weather patterns around to fit some destructive agenda.
I'm trying not to judge anything in too much of a left-brain or right-brain way either way. For instance, right now a lot of explanations are flying around as to what the Aurora shootout was about. Is Holmes a real person? Is he brainwashed, drugged, set up as a patsy because his dad was about to blow the whistle on sensitive information? Were there two assailants? Personally I haven't a clue about the physical facts of that situation.
But the chemtrail thing I have researched in a number of ways. And national flight patterns that I've looked at on the Internet are not a match for what I've been seeing in my environment. The planes involved are weirdly unique. I don't like being told I "don't understand what I'm seeing" by someone who doesn't know me closely enough to know where I've been with research.
I've had to let go of beliefs that embarrass me to think I ever fell for, like Muslims with boxcutters did 911, or dracos from Orion have to be behind things because why is there so much cruelty in this world, or that there's a caring God that will let us into heaven if we believe in Him enough.
It's quite the process to sort this out. I appreciate this site and the people on it for trying to debunk the world surrounding us, but it doesn't stop for a micro-moment with what's presented as real in mainstream or alternative news. Best to watch, wait and not react to the escalating problems presented to us as real, however hard that is. Or else we're none of us better than those who say, "It must be real, I saw it on TV!"

Capital Him? Maat might have something to say about that!

Anyhoo, point is there are more things around us everyday that will kill us, no need to get all spooky with Haarp or any other pseudoscience. What have you done about that mass murderer Blair for instance? He's still at large in the UK isn't he?

[maggie]

Geez, Brian, I'm not responsible for Blair's behaviour, nor are you, and I don't get you and your non-sequitur to this discussion about what is and isn't true on the Internet.
The God and Him references are facetious and it should be clear to you that I meant anything like that to be discarded beliefs in light of more compelling information.

[hoi.polloi]

Please let me say something about this matter.

Strange things exist.

That is all I want to say about this matter. Strange things do exist.

This forum is not the place to discuss such things. At least, I personally don't feel it should be. While the UFO/alien/chemtrail/HAARP/etc. etc. etc. questions (and other topics that are ridiculed - for right or wrong - on Wacked-pedia or wherever else we go to to feel "non-strange" about the fucking bizarre world we live in) are of great interest and - if significant - most likely tie into the nefarious simulation owned and operated by military madness ... we here are not focused on those details of the nefarious simulation.

We are concerned, on this forum, mainly, with the exposure of the nefarious simulation so that all of these questions, and more, can be better answered one day.

If you tell me there is some kind of time trial going on or some looming threat behind the fakery, then by all means use our research into the Mega-Sim to expose what is or is not lies, but please do not discuss these questions on our forum.

Help us expose the simulation. We are primarily concerned with how advanced simulation research software has come and what they are or are not capable of doing to human psychology and civilization with this weapon.

Forget the other weapons for now. This is one we know about and we can defeat - indeed, are in the process of defeating.

[brianv]

Geez, Brian, I'm not responsible for Blair's behaviour

Did you Vote for him?

Are you responsible for the behaviour of Airlines?

There is mass child murderer at large in the UK, the Nazis never murdered 320,000 children, and you are worried about some condensation in the sky?

PS Yes YOU are responsible for Blair, you and all your country men who failed to stop his slaughter, and the failure for not bringing him to trial.

Do something useful maggie!