THE "CHATBOX"

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guivre
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by guivre »

IMHO, it looks like we were saved from a giant Evola thread in a week or two.

I'm personally a very old-fashioned person, but that's the last thing we need.
hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

You mean we were saved from the spread of the Evola virus? Why aren't we in the news? :ph34r:

Spiritualism through war is definitely the kind of shit the PsyOperators would believe in, isn't it? Good call. Never heard of the guy but what I see on a cursory search looks very familiar.
Sophia Perennis
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Sophia Perennis »

hoi.polloi wrote:
I haven't denounced metaphysics. I just think your definition of Alchemy — the transformation of the soul from lead to gold — is a poor and uninspired idea. And I don't think it's the ultimate thing people are battling for. You can have metaphysics, and please do start a blog about it. CluesForum is just not the place to start a debate about the ultimate idea. If you were to start a thread about "the truth of Masonic" or "the truth of Gnostic" beliefs and went into the ways those ideas can and have been corrupted, that would be one thing. But asking everyone to accept a metaphysical description as holding objective significance to fakery, without offering proof and saying we've already provided it, is a bit much for an agnostic forum like ours.

I agree with the first part but not the second. If you say it had close to nothing to do with Alchemy, then we had a severe misunderstanding, because to me you clearly said Alchemy and Tradition were the two prime ideas that the forces of good and bad were fighting over. This to me represented your metaphysical belief that Alchemy is connected to the soul, something that is akin to asking people to accept Jesus is the son of God or something. I just don't accept that is one of two prime belief systems for the most relevant good and bad forces (within the study of TV fakery) to be fighting. Why not God versus Satan, or attachment versus detachment, or Batman vs. Superman? I am not saying unicorns and pink elephants; I am genuinely asking where it ends.
The title of my thread was The War on Tradition, the content within it was in unanimous agreement with the subject. There wasn't even a single Metaphysical or Esoteric claim throughout the thread. Yet for whatever reason, rather than address the subject and the relevant claims I made regarding it, you contested my claim of Alchemy being a science; a claim that was at best secondary to the content of my thread. Out of 1,300 words relevant to the topic, you focused the entirety of your contentions on 164 words that had little to nothing to do with it. That's roughly one tenth of what I presented. So when you say "we" had a severe misunderstanding, what you mean to say is you had a severe misunderstanding and you locked my thread and permanently banned my account as a result of your own incompetence. Make no mistake, I'm not upset with you or your injurious treatment of Traditionalist thought, I'm simply perplexed that you can accept an eccentric and mystical belief like the Concave Earth Theory while simultaneously ignoring the very source that would give rise to a finite universe ex nihilo - which is the core of what Metaphysics is, the study of cause and first principles. So while your emphasis on, and rigorous study of, the effects of first principles is not in and of itself a bad thing, it would seem that until you realize positivist reductionism is incapable of explaining reality, Metaphysics will remain impenetrable to you. Honestly Hoi Polloi, you and I have far more in common than it may seem; as a matter of fact I was once an atheist and rationalist/objectivist for a good portion of my life - it wasn't until I underwent an initiatic experience that I realized my false pseudo-intellectuality was incapable of comprehending reality. So whether or not you think I'm some sort of infiltrator or shill, or some Evola worshiping freak (I'm not, I don't even know that Evola could be considered a Traditionalist) I only hope you would atleast agree that there is a common kinship among those who recognize and understand media deception that is not and cannot be shared with the masses and that this kinship is very much similar to the kinship held between Traditionalists, who despite having differing exoteric doctrines, recognize the warmth and commonality of their esoteric cores.



To be as short and brief as you were with us, you are more than welcome to help us uncover methods of deception. But as for proving how or why or why how or why, it's not fair of you to ask everyone to accept your unproven assumptions as some shared basis or shared motivation for why each of us has chosen each of our own personal reasons for being on this forum.
I have no illusions of continuing on this forum, it's just unfortunate that it is easier to convince a Metaphysician of Conspiracy than it is to convince a Conspiracy-Theorist of Metaphysics. At any rate, I wish you all the best.

Vincit Omnia Veritas
Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass »

‘Sophia’ this is a research forum full of some of the most skeptical, observant & independent people you will ever find.

Your post on the War on Tradition is not research, seems very reliant on ‘academics’ & ‘authoritarian language’ and appears to lack any kind of observations. So straight away you should have realized it was going to be questioned!

In addition it is virtually unreadable as has been pointed out to you several times already with no apology or even acknowledgment from yourself.

Here’s my attempt at translating your post...
There’s something behind these deceptions which you’ve all uncovered. This something is everywhere, affects everything & everybody.

Some of us know what this something is & reject the deceptions.

You might be wondering what this something is?

This something is modernism.

Modernism is not to be confused with modernism.

By modernism I means not asking questions about nature & religion & instead relying on objects & numbers.

There’s a lot of ideas that rely on the understanding of objects & numbers.These ideas cause suffering & deliberately so.

Every single idea that relies on an understanding of objects & numbers is a lie.Those that rely on objects & numbers are responsible for NASA fakery.

Now that I've explained what modernism is I'll tell you why it is bad.

Everybody with an understanding of objects & numbers deliberately promotes opposites.Those with an understanding of objects & numbers worship humans & not God. They hate nature & conquer all. They call themselves progressives & are proud of having an understanding of objects & numbers. All progress leads to hell & causes suffering in the world.

Some people with an understanding of objects & numbers have public knowledge/common sense. Those modernists are against tradition.They work with the State & media to promote their ideas. However those modernists cannot exist without help from the people with an understanding of objects & numbers who have secret knowledge. Those modernists are against tradition and are the subject of conspiracy theorists. The people with an understanding of objects & numbers who have secret knowledge seek to destroy all humans physically, spiritually & intellectually. These secret modernists want us to hate God which is why it is not surprising that they want to change man.

So what is tradition? Tradition is an understanding of both nature & religion for instance understanding Alchemy & Astrology.

It is a tragedy that most people do not consider Alchemy & Astrology as being worthy of worship. They would not fail to worship these things if they knew about them. Traditionalists care about Alchemy & Astrology because they want to be close to God & reality. Alchemy & Astrology have been corrupted by those with an understanding of objects & numbers yet have secret knowledge.

In summary fakery is being used to divide us from God. Various theories are lies used to create this divide. Those with an understanding of objects & numbers have strong control & as we watch the world end things will get worse. Therefore we must find God again & that can best be accomplished by asking questions about nature & religion.

Read & watch this suggested stuff.
Now you may either agree or disagree with this (still virtually unintelligible) translation but it is, I assure you, an honest one. Now I ask you...

(I) If you deem this translation as an inaccurate one... can you not see that you have failed to explain your position? 1300 words & you failed to get anything intelligible across to me... another English speaker.

(II) How sodding insane is it that on an international research forum an allegedly English post has to be re-translated into English at all?

(III) Can you not see that you’ve wasted people’s time with your antics?
Last edited by Critical Mass on Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Sophia Perennis wrote:I have no illusions of continuing on this forum, it's just unfortunate that it is easier to convince a Metaphysician of Conspiracy than it is to convince a Conspiracy-Theorist of Metaphysics.
Dude(tte?), you haven't even tried to convince anyone of metaphysics. Nobody has denied the presence of the metaphysical world. How you have repeatedly danced around making a single point yourself — metaphysical or otherwise — is making me worried about your mental health. It's like you have started telling a hundred stories and you keep interrupting yourself before you finish anything.

Once upon a time, there was a time, which belonged to a place, which was founded in a time, which had a quality to it, etc. etc. etc.

It's as though you can describe your stream of consciousness, but you can't give any evidence for it or hit anything of substance. When you were asked to explain something that you know — among the only things you pointed to as having any significance in your story: Traditionalism and Alchemy — you also proved that you actually knew nothing about it by "explaining" it with more aborted story fragments. I dread what you would have said if I asked you what something more conventional like "tradition" means to you. Would you have started quoting Biblical text? An OSHO book?

Not one thing was given from your personal observations or even observations by other people. If you claim withholding answers to direct questions is mysticism, you are severely confused and have fallen in with the worst false priests and charlatans of history. Or you've watched too many Kung Fu movies, maybe. Because with that kind of "skill", even if you thought you could begin the integration of your full conscious experience with your most far out and non sequitur generalizations, I am not sure it would help you because you wouldn't be able to explain how you have come to know anything.

On this site, we focus on the examination of evidence, based as much as possible on the conscious experiences that can be shared with the broadest possible audience, and — if we are lucky — we can draw some accurate guesses about things. As far as this site is concerned, you've got the cart before the horse, and your cart isn't even carrying anything. Go well, but please do go. You've said good-bye a couple times now.
Sophia Perennis
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Sophia Perennis »

hoi.polloi wrote: Dude(tte?), you haven't even tried to convince anyone of metaphysics. Nobody has denied the presence of the metaphysical world. How you have repeatedly danced around making a single point yourself — metaphysical or otherwise — is making me worried about your mental health. It's like you have started telling a hundred stories and you keep interrupting yourself before you finish anything.


Once upon a time, there was a time, which belonged to a place, which was founded in a time, which had a quality to it, etc. etc. etc.
You stupid motherfucker. My point has consistently been that you are an irrational cunt that refused to address the very fact that there is a war on Tradition.
It's as though you can describe your stream of consciousness, but you can't give any evidence for it or hit anything of substance. When you were asked to explain something that you know — among the only things you pointed to as having any significance in your story: Traditionalism and Alchemy — you also proved that you actually knew nothing about it by "explaining" it with more aborted story fragments.
How fucking stupid are you? You actually expected me to teach you, a profane and insolent retard, what I know about pure Metaphysics and Esoterism? Why the fuck would I waste my time attempting to elevate someone who had revealed himself to be totally incapable of grasping divinity? You can say I know nothing all you want, but I never divulged anything of any significance to begin with; your disgusting irrationality prevented me from doing so - which was all for the best I'm sure.
I dread what you would have said if I asked you what something more conventional like "tradition" means to you. Would you have started quoting Biblical text? An OSHO book?
I'm not a christian you fucking idiot, but that you think the Bible is an illegitimate source of information shows how utterly intellectually destroyed you are.
Not one thing was given from your personal observations or even observations by other people. If you claim withholding answers to direct questions is mysticism, you are severely confused and have fallen in with the worst false priests and charlatans of history. Or you've watched too many Kung Fu movies, maybe. Because with that kind of "skill", even if you thought you could begin the integration of your full conscious experience with your most far out and non sequitur generalizations, I am not sure it would help you because you wouldn't be able to explain how you have come to know anything.
As if you're an authority on anything. Fuck you, you relativistic cunt.
On this site, we focus on the examination of evidence, based as much as possible on the conscious experiences that can be shared with the broadest possible audience, and — if we are lucky — we can draw some accurate guesses about things.
Fuck your egalitarianism. You can shove your new-age rhetoric up Critical Mass' ass.
As far as this site is concerned, you've got the cart before the horse, and your cart isn't even carrying anything. Go well, but please do go. You've said good-bye a couple times now.
Fuck you Hoi Polloi. Delete my posts and ban my account you fucking retard - and be sure to tell LSC to add me to the FEMA detention list.

To Simon: I sincerely apologize for my behavior as you've been nothing but magnanimous and honorable - but Hoi Polloi is a anti-intellectual piece of shit and lacks ethics and character; he simply needs to learn his place in the hierarchy of things, which is most assuredly near the bottom. Of course I don't expect you accept this apology; I wouldn't, but I am indeed sorry for the mess I have created.
Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass »

You can shove your new-age rhetoric up Critical Mass' ass.
If this forum had signatures I'd go for that... it's awesome.

At the very least we can all now understand 'Sophia'.
Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass »

smj wrote:A historian of science that is proud of the absurd narrative that he is paid to regurgitate can be an invaluable tool.
Thanks for all the links smj... yet more to get up to speed on!

All I have to give back is this rather silly, if somewhat amusing, screen capture from one of Wellerstein's 'followed' (?).

Image
Flabbergasted
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Flabbergasted »

Sophia Perennis wrote:Why the fuck would I waste my time attempting to elevate someone who had revealed himself to be totally incapable of grasping divinity? [...] Fuck you, you relativistic cunt.
Looks like this "sophia perennis" entity started the "War on Tradition" thread specifically as a bait for Hoi.

Once (s)he/they got a silly argument going, his/her/their English began to sound less coherent and less native.

Having failed to convert Hoi overnight, (s)he/they declared having no further interest in CF (why then post reasonable-sounding comments on a number of threads the first couple of days?)

Another response from Hoi, and the entity was alchemically transformed into the most abject name-caller.

Too fast and too obvious for my taste.

I wonder if the purpose of this stilted display was to make sure no one ever feels tempted to read the works of Schuon and Guénon.
hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Fuck you Hoi Polloi. Delete my posts and ban my account you fucking retard - and be sure to tell LSC to add me to the FEMA detention list.
I think this person has something against the Koreshian concave Earth theory, as well, so they pick on the easy target — the Lord Steven Christ guy, who is obviously a bit delusional.

I am curious now about Schuon and Guénon. What are they about?
Flabbergasted
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Flabbergasted »

hoi.polloi wrote:I am curious now about Schuon and Guénon. What are they about?
Hoi, that´s not an easy question to answer.

First of all, I would not advise you to read about Guénon and Schuon, or read academic dissertations analyzing their respective contributions, whether they be written by enthusiasts or detractors. This may be useful in most other situations, but will not be helpful in this case.

As I see it, there are two fruitful ways of approaching the issue:

1. Go directly to the source: read their works. However, in this connection it is important to say that Schuon is necessary to understand Guénon properly, and vice-versa. It is somewhat like the complementarity between Plato and Aristotle. People who admire one and reject the other eventually fall into some form of annoying extremism.

2. Use Guénon and Schuon as keys to organizing information. The best example is perhaps the impressive and scholarly work "Treasury of Traditional Wisdom", by Withall Perry. The book contains no essays by Guénon or Schuon, but uses them as keys to organize the apparently contradictory intellectual, devotional and practical elements of world traditions, religions, literature and wisdom into an intellectually gratifying whole.

http://www.amazon.com/Treasury-Traditio ... 887752331/

If you are interested in owning a copy of this seminal book, I would be glad to give you one as a gift.
hoi.polloi
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Sounds a bit like Ken Wilber's integral thought, but of course it's probably different — looks more like a spiritual book of quotes. I'll take you up on that offer if you're serious, and return it to you when I'm done. E-mail me!
guivre
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by guivre »

Flabbergasted wrote: I wonder if the purpose of this stilted display was to make sure no one ever feels tempted to read the works of Schuon and Guénon.
That would make sense considering Sophia Perennis vs Religio Perennis.

There is a very large young traditionalist movement right now. I have a lot to say on this topic but I'm not going to do it here because it involves far right politics in the USA and Europe, involves people that I am close to and is very real. I wanted to write an article on it a year ago, but didn't but I wish I had because the movement is getting bigger and IMHO it all follows the same manipulation and fakery as many others. I had discovered something horrible and just couldn't think of a good enough way to do it without getting people I love furious at me, putting myself in a fairly bad position (former soviets play in this too) and I was honestly hoping all the young people would drop it and move on to some other philosophies and political figures as these things go.

As you can imagine, it didn't come out of thin air. It's not an organic movement.

P.S. Hoi - by all means read the books. You're going to need that background at some point.

A really good example of how it's being utilized on the internet is how Red Ice Radio has recently moved from New Age and alien chatter to Traditionalism and Far Right politics and history.

I'm not even going to speculate why. What I have is what I have observed, in person, in the last two years.
brianv
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv »

I read through this lengthy essay after recent posts. I'm not claiming to know the first thing about Traditionalism or any other "ism". I also have no idea who the author is or what his/her agenda might be.

http://textosdeinteresse.blogspot.com/2 ... n-and.html
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

Sophia Perennis wrote:Make no mistake, I'm not upset with you or your injurious treatment of Traditionalist thought, I'm simply perplexed that you can accept an eccentric and mystical belief like the Concave Earth Theory while simultaneously ignoring the very source that would give rise to a finite universe ex nihilo - which is the core of what Metaphysics is, the study of cause and first principles. So while your emphasis on, and rigorous study of, the effects of first principles is not in and of itself a bad thing, it would seem that until you realize positivist reductionism is incapable of explaining reality, Metaphysics will remain impenetrable to you.
And, to stick the final nail into her coffin:

This forum investigates media fakery - it isn't a graduate-level seminar in philosophical obscurantism.

Ha! What a moron. Each shill/troll begins its time here thinking it's so much smarter than we are, and yet they get exposed very quickly in most cases.
Last edited by fbenario on Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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