Man, I'm glad I found this forum, it's so nice to be able to discuss matters rationally, thanks.nonhocapito wrote:This is what I meant by "conspiracy factor". It is true that if (a big IF) HAARP is a hoax, it obviously works in a different way than the Nuke hoax: rather than offering it to us as an official truth they let it pass as an hidden truth. But the final purpose is still to scare a certain percentage of the population into the idea that end-of-the-world weapons do exist, and that they are in the hands of very dangerous criminals (as depicted by Kubrick's "Doctor Strangelove"): thus we all better accept any "reasonable" alternative offered to us.daozen wrote:Well I see to many differences between HAARP and the Nuclear Hoax (fukushima I suppose?) to even compare them. Everyone in the world got their eyes stuffed with images and news on the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear whatever where as most in the world have no idea of what haarp is.
Powerful weapons are very scary. They are meant to be scary much more than they are meant to be used. It is not unthinkable to imagine that military superpowers could evolve into organizations devoted to fear alone, that do not even have to waste energy to actually invent and construct weapons of mass destruction. Like those venomous animals that evolved to just show the signs of animals carrying venom, without actually having to waste energy to produce it.
I feel like reminding us this detail because to me it is an added clue pointing in the direction of the psyop. Alex Jones is a professional fear-monger: he speculates and exploits all possible, imaginable fears (especially male fears), and has used 9/11 as a leverage to suggest even more of those fears in a subtle but powerful way: the final picture of the world according to him is one of constant threat and constant secrecy -- which is ideal to get your public to wait from you to hear what's to do next.daozen wrote:Saying that it's "pushed" by Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura is absolutely irrelevant and a fallacy no?
I think I understand what you mean, but I don't see a real similarity with September Clues: SC takes imagery produced by the mass media and turns it inside out proving it is a forgery. You don't need to be a video expert or an engineer to see the stitching, so to speak. Imagery and data about HAARP comes to us already packaged to persuade us of the reality of HAARP, only a scientist could "turn it inside out" and you would have to trust that scientist. These are the situations that are perfect to fool people. I refuse to get to that level. I remain in mine, where I see strange things that I have no way to judge. Maybe tomorrow some conditions will arise where I will be able to take a clearer stance about this. For example, HAARP will be officially denied or officially admitted, using some official, MSM imagery as proof. We will be able to judge it then.daozen wrote:I mean what is it about "September Clues" that convinced you (I pressumed) the "fake" vids where not "faked", if that makes any sense, lol.
Check out this post of mine, right at the beginning of this thread: http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2351299#p2351299daozen wrote:What other explanation do you have for the fact that the whole hoax was built and shown for a specific date right after a quake. As far as I remember the fact that there was some sort of quake in Japan is a fact no?
You will see how many doubts I expressed -- even on the observations Simon was making about the fakery in the videos; observation that later on I had to admit were largely well-founded, since I started spotting traces of fakery myself.
And you will see that already then I defined the HAARP problem in the same exact terms we are discussing it now: If HAARP is fantasy, how could they have an earthquake happen precisely on a certain spooky date like 3/11?
It is following questions like these, that have no proper, immediate answer, that my opinion remains "floating" and perplexed. Before the Japan earthquake, I was much more certain that HAARP was pure psyop. Now, as I said, I don't know. On one hand I don't wanna fall for a psyop trap, adding to the collective fears, helping someone like Alex Jones in his dirty job: at the same time I cannot deny that certain earthquakes or related "disasters" look like man-made events hyped by fakery. (Other examples could include the volcano in Iceland or the old tsunami of the 26th of December 2004, etc.)
Anyway, yeah I say I would agree with your overall stance, or atleast I think it's a rational one. I'll just say a few things about a few things.
On Alex Jones, he might be fear-mongering, but I think it's more a result of his own world-view and paranoia. I think the guy is honest about most if not all he says, but I think he just isn't smart enough to see how certain things work, including his own mind. At the same time, I think he puts out a lot of valid information, and I would say that most of it is. He just adds the paranoid angle to it which taints the info. Rightly so? I don't know. I certaintly don't see it as a sign of a psyop and in fact would trust most of what he says as pointing out the psyops.
"Imagery and data about HAARP comes to us already packaged to persuade us of the reality of HAARP" Does it?
"only a scientist could "turn it inside out"" mmm... Scientist as in according to society or as someone who practices science? If we take the second defination anyone can turn it inside out.
"These are the situations that are perfect to fool people.[/u] I refuse to get to that level."
Seems you are afraid to be a "fool" if you believe in HAARP. Nothing wrong, but there seems to be a particular aprenhension, embarrasment, no?
I haven't really reasearched what's behind all those dates' numbers, they are the ones the aluminazi like or something right? lol, anyway. I'm not even talking about that but about orchestrating all the media fakery to be released right after a natural quake. Is it not irrational to think they could have not done it unless the quake was also man-made?
hey, Is there a HAARP thread? maybe there should be one?