Jonestown, CIA Mind Control Experiment - Mae Brussell, 1978

[Anonymouse]

So, I was watching a documentary about Waco which contended that the "mass suicide" story was a cover for what amounted to homicide on the part of the FBI/Military. It also made mention of the media reports at the time calling the event "another Jonestown". For the filmmakers, this is presented as ironic - implying Jonestown was also a case of homicides reported as mass suicides.

So I go and look up Jonestown stuff and stumble across a really interesting series of radio broadcasts by Mae Brussell, in December 1978. It goes into the whole speculation about the CIA and Jonestown being a mind-control experiment - the botched investigation - the mainstream media reporting, etc.

Anyway, I'm finding it really fascinating listening, so I thought I'd post it up here:



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ATyHf090s



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqEJgjB00wU



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDrmxJ8Vl_w

[MrSinclair]

This is a subject I know a bit about. I was living in San Francisco in the old neighborhood of Peoples Temple at the time of the Jonestown event. Sweet kind old women who got caught up in that church used to knock on our door collecting donations and we were always happy to oblige. For a long time they had a very positive reputation in San Francisco but it was based on lies and as the truth came out the made their move to Guyana.

Was it a mass suicide? Not in any conventional sense. They had drilled and trained for such an event and worn down peoples resistance to it. There were also armed men to coerce the drinking of the poison and they seemed to disappear once the job was done.

Particularly given Congressman Ryan's contentious relationship with the CIA and intelligence community it seems quite certain that he was eliminated for getting to close to an operation they were controlling or at least manipulating and exploiting. The consulate in Georgetown seemed to be quite the little hotbed of intelligence activity.

The brief period during which Jonestown occurred and then the assassinations of Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk (both of whom I had met in the course of their campaigning) was such an extraordinarily dark and painful time in a city normally known for its happy sense of hedonism that I will never forget it. I used to listen to Mae Brussell back in the 70's and 80's and while she is exhausting to listen to she is also quite compelling and much of her information has held up. Her work on the Patty Hearst/SLA case in particular was brilliant and largely accurate.

Thanks Anonymouse for bringing up this topic.

[Libero]

This is a subject I know a bit about. I was living in San Francisco in the old neighborhood of Peoples Temple at the time of the Jonestown event. Sweet kind old women who got caught up in that church used to knock on our door collecting donations and we were always happy to oblige. For a long time they had a very positive reputation in San Francisco but it was based on lies and as the truth came out the made their move to Guyana.

Was it a mass suicide? Not in any conventional sense. They had drilled and trained for such an event and worn down peoples resistance to it. There were also armed men to coerce the drinking of the poison and they seemed to disappear once the job was done.

Particularly given Congressman Ryan's contentious relationship with the CIA and intelligence community it seems quite certain that he was eliminated for getting to close to an operation they were controlling or at least manipulating and exploiting. The consulate in Georgetown seemed to be quite the little hotbed of intelligence activity.

The brief period during which Jonestown occurred and then the assassinations of Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk (both of whom I had met in the course of their campaigning) was such an extraordinarily dark and painful time in a city normally known for its happy sense of hedonism that I will never forget it. I used to listen to Mae Brussell back in the 70's and 80's and while she is exhausting to listen to she is also quite compelling and much of her information has held up. Her work on the Patty Hearst/SLA case in particular was brilliant and largely accurate.

Thanks Anonymouse for bringing up this topic.

MrSinclair,

I was searching the forum to see if this topic already existed, and I came across your post above. I wanted to let you know in advance that I don't doubt your sincerity at all in what you posted above, but I have come across a few interesting items to note.

A few months back, I ran Harvey Milk's name through the Social Security Death Database Index and didn't get any hits. I just ran a random sample of approximately 10 names from the following website's list of what I assume to be the accurate list of the names of people that were said to have perished in Jonestown and did not get any hits either. Also, this one has the classic CIA, documentary/movie made after it etc., pattern and you mentioned that this radio personality also reported on the Patty Hearst/SLA story which contains an attorney that is involved in cases where the victims don't show up in the SSDI either.

Do you think it may be possible that you may have been psy-opped in your own backyard? Don't be ashamed to admit it once you process the findings and come to your own conclusion. I believe it has happened in my town too. It's weird though... when it happens so close to home it makes it much more real and more difficult to talk about with anyone.

http://www.jones-town.org/victims.html
http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=3693

[fbenario]

It's weird though... when it happens so close to home it makes it much more real and more difficult to talk about with anyone.

In the Vicsim Report, I believe Hoi wrote that, the very first thing that made him go "Hmmm" at 9/11, was finding no one (including his own mother? < on that point, my memory may very well be faulty) who wanted to talk about a 'victim' from Hoi's hometown.

[Libero]

fbenario,

Yeah, in my case there were real people involved (I knew people that knew them). What I have been wondering especially lately is what possible 'dual role' some real people in society may play.

For example, I don't doubt that there was a real person behind Harvey Milk. It just probably wasn't his real name or his main occupation, if that makes sense.

Another example... somehow I came across this today (sorry for rambling so far off topic). This appears to be a government agency called out to handle mass fatalities. In fact, they were called out to handle the '9/11 victims' (and 'Oklahoma City' and others... etc) As I looked more into the people involved and various 'zones' they manage, most appear to be involved in funeral services somewhere along the line. But as our most logical assumption is that there were no victims, they must have been there to provide their 'credibility' if nothing else.

http://www.dmort.org/

And here's one who assisted the DMORT group that is also very involved in the media.


"Reichs has been a producer for the TV series Bones."

"She was a member of the Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team assigned to assist at the World Trade Center disaster."

This is the strangest of the quotes:

"The 2005 Fox television series Bones is inspired by Reichs' life and writing. The series borrows the name of the books' heroine, Temperance "Bones" Brennan. .... Additionally, the TV-Brennan moonlights as an author, writing about a fictional forensic anthropologist named Kathy Reichs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Reichs


I guess what I am concluding that there surely appears to real people in real jobs that may also have other roles. And I wonder how 'deep' it goes in closeness to the common everyday citizen (i.e. does my local sheriff department have an entertainment division? It appears that quite a few universities across the US might, I have noted.)

Edit: Our old friend astronut may be a perfect example too... real astrophotographer to give credibility to NASA etc...



On another silly sidenote, when the whole Manson thing supposedly went down, I was far too young to remember but my parents informed me that we lived within miles of the gang's supposed hideout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spahn_Ranch

Hmm? and who would have guessed that the ranch owner actually nicknamed the gang members... I just found out for the first time right now Life just gets more interesting by the day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Spahn

[fbenario]

"The 2005 Fox television series Bones is inspired by Reichs' life and writing. The series borrows the name of the books' heroine, Temperance "Bones" Brennan. .... Additionally, the TV-Brennan moonlights as an author, writing about a fictional forensic anthropologist named Kathy Reichs."

Boy, does THAT ever sound circular to me.

[MrSinclair]

This is a subject I know a bit about. I was living in San Francisco in the old neighborhood of Peoples Temple at the time of the Jonestown event. Sweet kind old women who got caught up in that church used to knock on our door collecting donations and we were always happy to oblige. For a long time they had a very positive reputation in San Francisco but it was based on lies and as the truth came out the made their move to Guyana.

Was it a mass suicide? Not in any conventional sense. They had drilled and trained for such an event and worn down peoples resistance to it. There were also armed men to coerce the drinking of the poison and they seemed to disappear once the job was done.

Particularly given Congressman Ryan's contentious relationship with the CIA and intelligence community it seems quite certain that he was eliminated for getting to close to an operation they were controlling or at least manipulating and exploiting. The consulate in Georgetown seemed to be quite the little hotbed of intelligence activity.

The brief period during which Jonestown occurred and then the assassinations of Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk (both of whom I had met in the course of their campaigning) was such an extraordinarily dark and painful time in a city normally known for its happy sense of hedonism that I will never forget it. I used to listen to Mae Brussell back in the 70's and 80's and while she is exhausting to listen to she is also quite compelling and much of her information has held up. Her work on the Patty Hearst/SLA case in particular was brilliant and largely accurate.

Thanks Anonymouse for bringing up this topic.

MrSinclair,

I was searching the forum to see if this topic already existed, and I came across your post above. I wanted to let you know in advance that I don't doubt your sincerity at all in what you posted above, but I have come across a few interesting items to note.

A few months back, I ran Harvey Milk's name through the Social Security Death Database Index and didn't get any hits. I just ran a random sample of approximately 10 names from the following website's list of what I assume to be the accurate list of the names of people that were said to have perished in Jonestown and did not get any hits either. Also, this one has the classic CIA, documentary/movie made after it etc., pattern and you mentioned that this radio personality also reported on the Patty Hearst/SLA story which contains an attorney that is involved in cases where the victims don't show up in the SSDI either.

Do you think it may be possible that you may have been psy-opped in your own backyard? Don't be ashamed to admit it once you process the findings and come to your own conclusion. I believe it has happened in my town too. It's weird though... when it happens so close to home it makes it much more real and more difficult to talk about with anyone.

http://www.jones-town.org/victims.html
http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=3693

Its an interesting question and I suppose it is entirely possible. Clearly there was a Harvey Milk whatever the origins of such a persona. Could the assassination have been merely the offing of a persona? Possibly, who knows? It would require a similar handling of Mayor Moscone who, unlike Milk , had lifelong ties to San Francisco and many people who knew him since childhood whereas Milk was more of a carpetbagger type. I would see Milk working in his camera store, exactly as shown in the film Milk, prior to his run for office and then campaigning as well

Jonestown is another case entirely as it involves hundreds of purported deaths. Again a high profile politician Rep Leo Ryan was amongst the victims. He offers a similar story to Rep Paul Wellstone whose death was 10 years ago and widely viewed as an assassination. Both men were known as enemies to the CIA and intelligence community.

I'll say this , the crowd manipulation part of things had to have been the easiest part. Once you had people believing that Dan White murdered Harvey Milk producing crowds in the streets to overturn and burn police cars was no problemo.

The CluesForum has had a profound effect on how I view all historical events. When Media Fakery began and how often it has been used are questions I can't answer. So in a sense all bets are off and all historic events are open to reconsideration. At the same time I have no interests in making myself crazy or paranoiac with all of this. Indeterminacy sits well with me. For now I presume those events happened but I would not be shocked to find out they didn't.

[reichstag fireman]

I would see [Harvey] Milk working in his camera store, exactly as shown in the film Milk, prior to his run for office and then campaigning as well

Hark at you: always in the right place at the right time, bless you!

[MrSinclair]

T'was nothing at all, I think you give this random factoid more credit than it is due.

[hoi.polloi]

For whatever it's worth, we may all have reason to doubt MrSinclair's assertions, but I - personally - do not. It sounds true.

American politicians are weird and lead strange lives, surrounded by paranoid security and intelligence folks. It is likely that many quickly succumb to their influence, are 'converted' to the paranoid security-intelligence military mindset, or are killed for resisting it.

What the movie Milk did not hardly brush upon is this fact about political activism in America. The movie (with Sean Penn of the suspicious pseudo-liberal celebrity bumper pack of George Clooney, Bono, etc.) is a farce. That there was a populist who went by the name Harvey Milk, and who had some backing of some Cali locals is a fact.

[Libero]

Hoi,

I am in total agreement with you regarding MrSinclair, and my question was truly asked as just that and certainly not meant as an accusation. Additionally, I sensed a sincere honesty with MrSinclair's reply back to me.

I did feel the need to do a bit more investigation on Mae Brussell, however. I looked up her website and found the following information if it helps anyone with their own decision on her credibility.

http://www.maebrussell.com/About%20Mae% ... ssell.html

Edit 5/16/2013

More information regarding Mae Brussell in the following Cluesforum topic:

The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm. : viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1466&p=2384522&hilit=mae+brussell#p2384522

[whatsgoingon]

Hoi,

I am in total agreement with you regarding MrSinclair, and my question was truly asked as just that and certainly not meant as an accusation. Additionally, I sensed a sincere honesty with MrSinclair's reply back to me.

I did feel the need to do a bit more investigation on Mae Brussel, however. I looked up her website and found the following information if it helps anyone with their own decision on her credibility.

http://www.maebrussell.com/About%20Mae% ... ssell.html

Not an expert on Mae Brussell but it strikes me as too scripted, while I wish it to be true in many ways. Also the idea of getting death threats for investigating your government is a bit of the very fear mongering we expect from the same mentality that created 9/11.

But on listening to her, she seems genuine. This Jim Jones affair I previously considered as faked. Consider the Time Magazine Cover where all the dead bodies are photographed in a face-down position. I do not buy that at all.

Is this about fear of alternative lifestyles? Casting fear at their creation. IN many ways the 60s and perceptions thereof were made to make people think that hippie living is not the way to go. You end up in a cult. The banks cannot profit without fewer debts from communal living arrangements, hence communes and hippies needed to be thwarted with various PsyOPs.

[bostonterrierowner]

Again a high profile politician Rep Leo Ryan was amongst the victims. He offers a similar story to Rep Paul Wellstone whose death was 10 years ago and widely viewed as an assassination. Both men were known as enemies to the CIA and intelligence community.

How did they manage to get elected and re-elected if they were such a threat to CIA ?

[MrSinclair]

Let me be clear that these are my recollections as opposed to assertions. These events left a big impression long before September Clues and its influence came along. Like a lot of people back then I doubted much of the official story of Jonestown and speculated in all kinds of directions as to the real truth of it. All of that was done with the assumption that the bodies were real and that people died there.
Am I now open to the possibility that nobody died there? Of course, how could I not be having read this forum on a daily basis for the last year and half? It is indeterminate for me, whatever I may believe to be true I can't ultimately know to be true beyond any and all doubts. I know for example that after the Jonestown group purportedly moved to Guyana large shipping containers regularly came and went from their San Francisco location. I know because I lived blocks from there and saw them come and go. I don't know any more than that, what was in them or where they actually went.
Maybe I was duped along with the rest of the city, it is possible. I find it more likely that people did move to the Jonestown compound and were eventually eliminated but I'm open to any evidence to the contrary. Rep Ryan lasted for about 4 years from the point he began criticizing the CIA, again assuming it, he , they etc are real as they certainly appeared to be at the time. His aide Jackie Speier was shot on the landing strip but survived according to the official story and eventually won his seat in Congress although she was far more mainstream and sedate then he was. I don't believe either of them were vicsims but I would read anything asserting that view.

[repentantandy]

The official account of the Jonestown massacre was HEAVILY questioned, back in the pre-Internet days, guys. Even some of the big-time, mainstream journalists let slip their "masks of certainty" when parroting government spokesmen about Jim Jones' People's Temple -- because the details of the carnage, including the body count, kept wildly changing in the hours, days, and weeks after the story broke.

There was also much malevolent speculation in what passed for the "alternative press" back then as to whether the (mostly Black and poor) victims were, indeed, CIA-MKUltra/mind-controlled zombies who willingly "drank the Kool-Aid" (that's where the expression began, even though the cyanide-laced punch bowl was reportedly sweetened with the cheaper knock-off "Flav-R-Aid".) Or... were the expatriate parishoners mostly murdered (by compliant soldiers) via needle-injections, bullets and strangulation?

The amazing Mae Brussell, for all her brilliance in ferreting out dirty deeds done by the feds, was usually loathe to point the finger at very much in the way of Mossad misbehaviour, since she was forever seeing only avatars of Nazi Germany in the modern-day depravities of the U.S.A.'s "Cult of Intelligence". One wonders, if Mae had lived to a much riper old age, if she would have sung "Kol Nidre" to a different tune in her later years -- as did her good friend and co-researcher, Chicago's legendary Sherman Skolnick.

Be that as it may, another of the lady's most devoted associates would go on to pen one of the all-time samizdats of American parapolitics (in the pre-Web era), a blood-curdling revisionist expose' of the Jonestown death pageant titled "The Black Hole of Guyana". It is preserved, ostensibly in its 1985 edition, here: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Joh ... stown.html

But caveat lector!

The author of this astounding, recommended-reading example of puzzle-piece reconstruction would twenty years later shamefully discredit himself (at least to us) by his self-appointment as a highly visible spokesman for "the families of the 9/11 VICTIMS!" (And he's also a vehement Pentagon plane-hugger!)