Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda

Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby nonhocapito on August 11th, 2012, 1:17 am

reichstag fireman wrote:Unsurprisingly, the "photographer" left nothing to find through ELA [3]. But notice how the dockside is in clear focus. And so too the cross-sectioned end of the ship. Yet anything much beyond that is clouded in thick sea mist. Fancy that! :rolleyes:


I'm not following, can you explain what would be the relevance of this ship in the context of this thread?
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby reichstag fireman on August 11th, 2012, 2:20 am

The MS Grecia is possibly another maritime fraud that would have to be based on image fakery.

While studying yet another "ferry disaster", the Townsend Thoresen MS Herald of Free Enterprise which apparently sank off Zeebrugge in 1987, it struck me that, like the Concordia, the Herald may never have actually sunk at all. The few images showing the capsized Herald just aren't persuasive. According to Wikipedia, it was "the deadliest maritime disaster involving a British ship in peacetime since..1914." [1]. So we should expect to find thousands of photographs and hours of online video footage. But we don't.

The damage to the Herald, according to the few published images, looks very extensive. They show a vessel creased and crumpled like a ball of paper. Yet the Herald was supposedly recovered, repaired, and within a year or two, re-floated under a new name. If true, that in itself is an extraordinary feat of engineering.

Without claiming anything categorically, convincing images of any of these supposed maritime "disasters" seem very few and far between. The images we do have leave more questions than they answer. If that image above is a fake, and if it supposedly shows the Grecia, it suggests that the faked sinking and faked decommissioning of ships is much more commonplace than generally supposed.

The practice of building fleets of identical "sister" ships, would be a perfect ruse for pulling off such swindles, and on an industrial scale.

The Herald of Free Enterprise, for example, purportedly had two sister ships, all originally identical to each other: the Spirit of Free Enterprise and the Pride of Free Enterprise. According to w'pedia, the latter two vessels are both still operational albeit under new names and new ownership.

In the UK, there is an irreverent magazine called Private Eye. It is similar to the Onion in the USA. One of Private Eye's long-running jokes is to note the similarity between two people or two things. The similarity is captured through two pictures printed side by side. These are always captioned with the words "Has anyone ever seen them together?!". If the thinking is correct here, that joke would apply very well to the building of "sister" ships..

Perhaps to bring the thread back to topic and, again, courtesy of wikipedia: "Costa Concordia was the first of the Concordia class cruise ships, followed by sister ships Costa Serena, Costa Pacifica, Costa Favolosa and Costa Fascinosa, and Carnival Splendor built for Carnival Cruise Lines." [2]

As for all those sister ships of the Costa Concordia, "Has anyone ever seen them together" ??!! What distinguising features do they have, if any?

As for the general M.O. to these frauds, if that's what they are, who is ultimately being defrauded? Insiders within the maritime insurance industry, headquartered in London, must be "in on it". So who is getting suckered? The Lloyds names? If the "sister" ships are never genuinely built, with perhaps just one or two vessels posing as multiple identical vessels from the same fleet, then the fraud starts its life in the capital markets. With bankers reeling in investors to sucker for funding to build these non-existent ships. Is that stating the obvious?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_ ... Enterprise
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia
Last edited by reichstag fireman on August 11th, 2012, 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby reichstag fireman on August 11th, 2012, 6:33 am

Finally got round to watching the Channel 4 documentary, Terror at Sea: The Sinking of the Concordia, screened originally 31 January 2012: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/terr ... cordia/4od

Those interviewed for the film include:

onboard entertainers:
Kirsty Cheslin-Nuttall : http://www.facebook.com/kizzie.nuttall
Joe Stribley : http://www.facebook.com/joe.stribley
Amelia Elizabeth Leon : http://www.facebook.com/amelia.leon
James Thomas : http://www.facebook.com/James.M.C.Thomas
Rose Metcalf : http://www.facebook.com/rose.metcalf.12

(some interesting images on those Farcebook pages, apparently showing the engine room and control room of the Concordia)

passengers:
Derek & Viv Ebbage : http://www.thewcb.org.uk/index.php/seniors
Janice Cowan Donoff & Ian Donoff: http://jc-thn-ws3.thejc.com/galleries/f ... 2012?img=7

"experts":
Professor Ed Galea, School of Maths & Comp., Univ of Greenwich: http://staffweb.cms.gre.ac.uk/~ge03/
Captain Nick Bates, Former Captain, QE2: http://www.nick-bates.co.uk/
Commander Cosimo Nicastro, Italian Coastguard
Sergeant Marco Savastano, Italian Coastguard

---

The only alleged crew members interviewed for this documentary are five people from Concordia's onboard entertainment team. All of whom are professionally trained in performing arts (actors) :rolleyes: Convenient..

The expertise of Professor Ed Galea, can be officially discounted since he's a witting stooge for the 9/11 hoax. (see his university home page).

Captain Nick Bates (Master Bates in his earlier seafaring days) is an after dinner speaker and author of a book of naval (tall) stories. The book is called, appropriately enough, With a Pinch of Salt.

Supposed passengers Janice Cowan and Ian Donoff don't seem to have existed online, prior to the "disaster". But now both are regulars at their local synagogue. Just shows how a close call with death can help anyone find G-d!

Prior to the Concordia disaster, fellow passengers Derek & Viv Ebbage were already well known in their Gloucestershire community for their fundraising efforts for other tragedies.. http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/ ... story.html
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby fbenario on August 12th, 2012, 1:58 am

reichstag fireman wrote:As for the general M.O. to these frauds, if that's what they are, who is ultimately being defrauded? Insiders within the maritime insurance industry, headquartered in London, must be "in on it". So who is getting suckered? The Lloyds names? If the "sister" ships are never genuinely built, with perhaps just one or two vessels posing as multiple identical vessels from the same fleet, then the fraud starts its life in the capital markets. With bankers reeling in investors to sucker for funding to build these non-existent ships. Is that stating the obvious?

I think you are right. For the rest of you, each individual 'name' at Lloyd's theoretically has unlimited personal liability (although some of that is then underwritten and pushed off on reinsurance policies and companies). The ultimate losers would be certain rich folk, not so much the general public in this scenario.

My comment to these 'unlucky', bankrupted names? Tough s**t, Sherlock, you signed up for it. Now piss off.
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby nonhocapito on August 31st, 2012, 7:01 am

fbenario wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote:As for the general M.O. to these frauds, if that's what they are, who is ultimately being defrauded? Insiders within the maritime insurance industry, headquartered in London, must be "in on it". So who is getting suckered? The Lloyds names? If the "sister" ships are never genuinely built, with perhaps just one or two vessels posing as multiple identical vessels from the same fleet, then the fraud starts its life in the capital markets. With bankers reeling in investors to sucker for funding to build these non-existent ships. Is that stating the obvious?

I think you are right. For the rest of you, each individual 'name' at Lloyd's theoretically has unlimited personal liability (although some of that is then underwritten and pushed off on reinsurance policies and companies). The ultimate losers would be certain rich folk, not so much the general public in this scenario.

My comment to these 'unlucky', bankrupted names? Tough s**t, Sherlock, you signed up for it. Now piss off.


I am not an expert but I think I disagree. When an insurance company is forced to pay up a lot of money, it certainly must have in place internal policies that immediately get those money back from somewhere. That "somewhere" is invariably the people. All they need is a justification to raise fees or do whatever to materialize the money that later exchange hands.
No insurance company goes bankrupt because it pays back too much. If we knew exactly how an insurance company works, I think we could literally "see" the money used to pay back a loss being "taken" from the people's pockets. The insurance company merely acting as a link and taking their cut. Nobody but us getting poorer.

Although I am almost certain the Concordia accident and following reminders are about much more than scamming insurance.
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby fbenario on September 1st, 2012, 1:14 am

nonhocapito wrote:
fbenario wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote:As for the general M.O. to these frauds, if that's what they are, who is ultimately being defrauded? Insiders within the maritime insurance industry, headquartered in London, must be "in on it". So who is getting suckered? The Lloyds names? If the "sister" ships are never genuinely built, with perhaps just one or two vessels posing as multiple identical vessels from the same fleet, then the fraud starts its life in the capital markets. With bankers reeling in investors to sucker for funding to build these non-existent ships. Is that stating the obvious?

I think you are right. For the rest of you, each individual 'name' at Lloyd's theoretically has unlimited personal liability (although some of that is then underwritten and pushed off on reinsurance policies and companies). The ultimate losers would be certain rich folk, not so much the general public in this scenario.

My comment to these 'unlucky', bankrupted names? Tough s**t, Sherlock, you signed up for it. Now piss off.


I am not an expert but I think I disagree. When an insurance company is forced to pay up a lot of money, it certainly must have in place internal policies that immediately get those money back from somewhere. That "somewhere" is invariably the people. All they need is a justification to raise fees or do whatever to materialize the money that later exchange hands.
No insurance company goes bankrupt because it pays back too much. If we knew exactly how an insurance company works, I think we could literally "see" the money used to pay back a loss being "taken" from the people's pockets. The insurance company merely acting as a link and taking their cut. Nobody but us getting poorer.

Although I am almost certain the Concordia accident and following reminders are about much more than scamming insurance.

Nonho, given the bolded language, I think we actually agree with each other!
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby Heiwa on September 14th, 2012, 4:24 pm

So there are developments about the Costa Concordia incident. A report by some Italian experts has been issued and given to the Italian court that handles the criminal side of the incident and sections of the report have apparently been leaked to Italian newspapers that in turn are quoted by media worldwide.

The experts of course blame the poor Captain for running the ship aground, colliding with something, not doing anything right (except getting >99% of the persons aboard ashore), causing the capsize, etc.

The experts seem not to understand that vessel neither ran aground, nor collided with anything but apparently contacted an object on the sea floor that, mysteriously, ripped open the ship’s vertical side aft! How that happened is not explained, but the ship was stable, upright and floated, ship was anchored and >99% of people aboard were brought ashore. :rolleyes:
Only later the vessel suddenly capsized and fell on the rocky shore with 90° heel. Apparently the Captain was responsible for that too ... but then he was ashore. :o

Instead the court-appointed experts said that Costa's Fleet Crisis Co-ordinator, Roberto Ferrarini ashore at Genova: "seems not to have the pulse of the conditions of the ship". When the captain told him that three sections of the vessel were flooded, he should have immediately told the captain to declare a general emergency and abandon ship, the report said. :lol: :lol: "Instead, from that moment, six minutes passed before Captain Schettino announced a general emergency and around 27 minutes before he called for the ship to be abandoned."
So an employee ashore is now responsible for the incident. Amazing. I once had, for many years, a job like Mr. Ferrarini’s and assisted to sort out many incidents but was never blamed for causing them. It seems the experts’ report is a joke and leaked to put the blame on wrong people ... as usual. :angry:
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby Heiwa on September 19th, 2012, 11:15 am

If you want to go on a cheap cruise :) , visit, e.g. http://www.webcroisieres.com/ and you’ll notice that, e.g. Costa Cruises offers 60-70% discounts to get you aboard :) . Reason is, of course, that nobody wants to cruise any more at sea, at any price. :rolleyes: Cruising at sea is no longer what it was, e.g. 30 years ago, when you had to have a certain income, education and style to cruise and have fun with 500-600 others, while being looked after by friendly crew, e.g. Italians. :lol: It has apparently, democratically been replaced by cheap, low cost cruising for 3000-4000+ anybodies on big, slow ships served be even lower paid nobodies from poor, underdeveloped countries. Fun? :unsure: Well, it is cheap, for certain. But it will not help Costa (and its stupid owner). I have a feeling that Costa & Co is heading for bankruptcy … and maybe the Costa Concordia incident was part of something to get some money from underwriters to prolong the decay. We will see. Anything happens at sea. :P
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby whatsgoingon on September 20th, 2012, 5:42 pm

a
Last edited by whatsgoingon on May 24th, 2013, 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby blackpixie on September 28th, 2012, 8:38 pm

Hi there. I registered on this site just to set a record straight - in regards to the photo linked on page 10 by "pdgalles" regarding the "Costa Concordia incident". It was from my website (neversickofsarcasm.com), I have a tracker that links me to pageviews, that's how I ended up seeing it was posted here. The woman in the red dress is my aunt Betty, and that photo has not been "doctored" in any way or whatever you may think - but you still have your facts wrong. That is from a cruise my family and I took in 2010 on the Costa Atlantic (where Francesco Schettino was captain). It was from the final dinner on the last night of the cruise, Schettino came down and danced in the conga line with everyone and seemed like a really nice guy. My uncle sent me these photos from our trip when the news story about the Concordia broke - as he was shocked it was the same guy (I certainly didn't remember his face or name 2 years after our cruise, my uncle went back through our family pictures and flipped out). I see this website seems to be about disproving media hoax or whatever but just wanted to let you know that photo wasn't from the Concordia, just my family's vacation on the Atlantica - it really was Schettino, but a good 2 years before the whole thing with the Concordia went down, whatever that was.
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby agraposo on September 28th, 2012, 9:03 pm

blackpixie wrote:Hi there. I registered on this site just to set a record straight - in regards to the photo linked on page 10 by "pdgalles" regarding the "Costa Concordia incident". It was from my website (neversickofsarcasm.com), I have a tracker that links me to pageviews, that's how I ended up seeing it was posted here. The woman in the red dress is my aunt Betty, and that photo has not been "doctored" in any way or whatever you may think - but you still have your facts wrong. That is from a cruise my family and I took in 2010 on the Costa Atlantic (where Francesco Schettino was captain). It was from the final dinner on the last night of the cruise, Schettino came down and danced in the conga line with everyone and seemed like a really nice guy. My uncle sent me these photos from our trip when the news story about the Concordia broke - as he was shocked it was the same guy (I certainly didn't remember his face or name 2 years after our cruise, my uncle went back through our family pictures and flipped out). I see this website seems to be about disproving media hoax or whatever but just wanted to let you know that photo wasn't from the Concordia, just my family's vacation on the Atlantica - it really was Schettino, but a good 2 years before the whole thing with the Concordia went down, whatever that was.

viewtopic.php?p=2364606#p2364606
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby brianv on September 28th, 2012, 9:06 pm

The captain joined the conga line? :lol:

Is that what passes as entertainement on cruise ships? Sink them all - ffs!
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby Rudy Algera on September 29th, 2012, 7:42 pm

I have just read that the Dutch singer Justine Pelmelay is going to write a book in which she'll tell how she survived the Costa Concordia disaster. Do we have a passenger list and is her name on it? As well as the names of about 26 other Dutch nationals? Where can I find the official passenger list? Any other Dutch members of September Clues interested in investigating this matter?
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby reichstag fireman on September 30th, 2012, 1:55 am

Rudy Algera wrote:..Any other Dutch members of September Clues


Just curious, Rudy Algera, but why are you systematically deleting all of your posts?

http://cluesforum.info/search.php?st=0& ... 9&start=15

You've even deleted your introduction! Why so?

http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0#p2372060

And now you want to flush out the Dutch members of this forum! Why so?
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Re: Costa Concordia incident, Friday 13 Jan 2012

Postby simonshack on October 3rd, 2012, 1:13 pm

reichstag fireman wrote:
Just curious, Rudy Algera, but why are you systematically deleting all of your posts?

http://cluesforum.info/search.php?st=0& ... 9&start=15

You've even deleted your introduction! Why so?

http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0#p2372060


Rudy,

I am also waiting for an answer to RF's questions. Anyone is free to edit or even delete his/her own posts here now and then, but your case is rather extreme. In any case, deleting your own introduction is beyond acceptable and I will have to close your account unless you re-write your intro and provide a satisfactory explanation as to your systematic post deletions.
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