OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011

[goodpeople]

Also, the hand and eye signs this girl seems to be making - could it not be a product of almost every major musician using freemasonic symbolism ?? Lady Gaga, Jay Z, Kayne West, Ke$ha, ect ?? You know, people are effected subliminally by these things. And it would make sense that these people you know, would let these subliminal things effect them when they are posing for a picture, ect.

Fair reasoning.

I am not denying TV FAKERY. I am not even denying TV FAKERY when it comes to the Oslo/Utoya attacks.

What I am trying to prevent is a sweeping ideology of "they don't actually kill people"

I don't think that ideology has even been raised.

But why should we assume someone has died or something was invented to appear like a death? There is very little telling the difference these days. That's what this site is about. If you want to raise your arms in panic about real death and real warfare, report it on indy news or something.

Our job here is to poke at the media and test it against what we know about hoaxed events.

But TV FAKERY is real, I know it is. I'm trying to get to the bottom of the TV/MEDIA/INTERNET FAKERY just like everyone else is... But to say "this is how they do it every single time" is silly.

Real people die in terrorist attacks (sometimes)
Real people die in plane crashes (sometimes)
Real people die in the middle east (sometimes)
Real people die all the time.

Seemingly, wouldn't it be a great way to cover up the acts of senseless murder by employing this ideology to every single scenario ??

I'm not trying to start an argument here, im trying to dig through the dirt just like everyone else and find the truth.

Just because I don't agree (sometimes) doesn't mean i'm against you guys. It just means there is a difference in opinion, and we can work through that by debating it.

I'm being polite, I may come off as sarcastic from time to time (that's just how I am) but i'm not attacking anyone's character, ect.

So, let the debate go on ?

[goodpeople]

Are you kidding me right now ?? The sun is in a place where all the shadows are on the right hand side of the objects. Not the left, the guy's shadow is no visible.

The sun's place is a moot point if the shadows' direction is not consistent throughout the image - and it is not. The woman's head's shadow and the butterfly's shadow are certainly not consistent with the aggressively right-pointing shadows of the branches. Also, the diagonal shadow in the background is not consistent with straight-to-right shadows.

Again, it's a lo-res compressed facebook image.

Hey, you guys may be right about this. She might be fake. But as far as I can see right now. This girl is real.

Lets move on ?

If it comes down to, every single other victim listed has suspicions of being a fake. Then I got dupped and the girl was a fake. I fell for it.
I can admit that.

But as of this moment, she's real to me.
I think alot of people are misinterpreting what I said earlier. When I wrote "REAL PEOPLE DIED ON UTOYA"
What I meant was if 1 person is confirmed out of 68. That's 1 actual death.

I'm not saying all 68 people are real. I am saying (in my opinion, at the moment) that girl is real


Let's move on.

Isma Brown, for instance. Now THAT character seems fake to me...

Shall we ?

[hoi.polloi]

Basically, saying digital media has convinced you of something is kind of foolish these days. That's the main point.

The point isn't to say "everything is fake so nothing happened" - the point is to ask often and loudly "this seems dubious, so do we know what actually happened?"

I think you should be more lenient of those who explain why they doubt something. You can't just keep knocking down everyone's questions and claim that all you're saying is, "I believe it's real and the joke's on me if I'm wrong."

That's not what you're doing. We can see that's not what you're doing. Stop shilling and advocating for the lying media corporations. Let's see if we can move on with that in mind or if you're going to continue to be a nuisance.

[goodpeople]

You need to prove things before you can accuse me of shilling first Hoi. There was once a time, in the truth movement where debate was encouraged.

[hoi.polloi]

Hahahaha! "truth movement"? "debate"? You must be joking.

Simon Shack's September Clues and this forum are the best hope for getting to the bottom of the culprits behind 9/11 because we only focus on what we can prove. At what point did any "truth" site allow our message through besides the now defunct 911movement.org? Never!

The onus of proof is always on those making the claim. We are not making claims and demanding to be trusted as a "movement" or a "group" - we are a random assortment of semi-anonymous people critiquing the claims of the media.

The issues we raise have been censored on countless "truth movement" sites since they first appeared - sometimes seemingly to specifically target our questions against the media. Don't bullshit us and tell us we are part of the same "truth movement" that belongs to Alex Jones, Nico Haupt, Lets Roll, Loose Change, Michael Moore, A&E 911truth, Judy Wood, Wikileaks or anything else that has done as you do - produce excuse after excuse for the media.

And don't you dare have a false nostalgia for some period of time that acceptance of some anonymous person's disingenuous and slimy-worded foot-stomping and demanding to be trusted is part of any "debate". That doesn't make you a "debater" - it allies you with the lying media's habit of demanding undeserved trust on a constant basis, with nothing but insults and sly innuendo for those that rightfully don't trust you automatically.

You have a bad sense of history, a bad sense of media and a bad sense of the present. What good are you, "goodpeople"? Between being a shill and acting like one, there isn't a noticeable difference. Please just swallow your humble pie and learn that the media is untrustworthy and learn to ask useful questions, or get lost or I will ban you.

[Equinox]

Simon.

I'm not going to say much until I hear from MartinL - our man in Oslo.

Martin - you there?

In regards to MartinL, Simon, I was looking for him yesterday, and I have not seem him online since June 3. Maybe he has moved on from the research.


In Australia, we had something of the same nature. It was called ‘the port Arthur massacre”
There is reason to think the Port Arthur massacre, was planned as early 1987 when, after a specially called Premier's meeting in Hobart in December 1987, the New South Wales Labor Premier, Mr. Barry Unsworth stated, "there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania".

The Port Arthur massacre happened in 1996… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthu ... Australia)

Anyways same deal... some guy apparently flips out, and kills a whole heap of people on an isolated Australian Island, with no police around (Tasmania)
Compare the shooter photos…
Alleged Port Arthur gunman Martin Bryant, and Alleged Norwegian gunman.


Hmmmm 2 badly cropped shots of Norwegian Gunman.


Same clothes, same shoot.. just decides 2 change from one boring background, 2 another boring background, then just keep the EXACT same body pose and just turn the head slightly 2 the left? then BADLY crop the shots .. honestly who does that?

Seems like stock standard photo morphing technology.

MSNBC Change the background. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#43902927



Also used the alleged shot of the Gunman, with a ever so slightly different pose… but this time in a formal suit.

Joe Viallis tried to pick apart the Port Arthur psy op.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~jenks/carleen.html

I thought about the Port Arthur massacre as soon as I saw the Norway killings unfold on TV.

Apart from the blonde hair I didn't see a likeness between Bryant & the alleged Norwegian gunman, who looks more like Julian Assange than Bryant.

The comments from that December 1987 meeting you mention, was probably a result of the Melbourne 'Hoddle Street' random shootings of August 1987 (7 people killed I think) the killer Julian Knight is still in gaol. Which were followed by another random Melbourne shooting spree in Queen Street in December 1987, where I think about 9 people were killed, the gunman killing himself.

Always good 2 hear from you Antipodean, You are such an epic researcher… Thanks so much for the times you have helped me with Factual Australian facts, in regards to Things I post. It helps me a lot to understand if I was wrong. And also get 2 learn cool new stuff.
Alleged Port Arthur gunman Martin Bryant, and Alleged Norwegian gunman.

I’m not suggesting they are same photo, I’m trying 2 say that the circumstances of the Aussie Event and the Norway one are very similar. Some guy apparently flips out, and kills a whole heap of people on an isolated Australian Island, with no police around (Tasmania) all done Buy a Caucasian with long blond hair.
It also coincides with this DHS terrorism released days before the Norway attacks. (Features a Caucasian terrorist)



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSCP_OA6m2A
IMO, don’t waste your time watching the full video…. Just skim through it… It is just crap propaganda designed to create, paranoia of terrorism. In a time when you are more likely to die from a horse accident. Than a Terrorist event. Just skim through..

[Equinox]

I know members in this thread have already suggested the gunman was a sim. And here is my conclusion…

I am buy far nowhere near a photo expert; I only just know basic stuff of everyone here from reading the memorial scams thread. Which reminds me?


Antipodean, and Hoi. I recall a conversation we had a few weeks back.

I may be wrong and I hope someone tells me if I ‘am here... But In this shot of Andrew taken of what looks to be Disney world... Andrews head looks like as if it has been just placed on top of someone else’s body.... To me the Line around the neck just looks well plain odd to be honest. I know people (even myself) have a tan line around there. But to be honest it doesn’t look like anything I have seen before... the texture and shade of his face and neck look out of wack with the rest of his body.
So yes I am going to say that I think that old Andrews head is just a morphed variation of a computer sim face ... stuck on a real life body...



And conveniently his two other photos show him wearing attire that completely covers his neck...


Looks like the same morph to me... the light reflections on the top of his forehead (our right side) both seem to cover the same area.

Antipodean

There appears to be a shadow line cast across the neck which ends at the shirt, yet the shirt collar is casting its own shadow.

Hoi

Disneyland pic: head is too small. Look at how bulky the fucker is. This is classic vicsim. The other two pics also mask this bulkiness by offering ambiguous perspectives of his body. A hilarious cock-up.

The fake vicsims are rife with this. None of them are real.

I do not like, to bring up my own “THEORYS”, I am all about real evidence, But in the past few months, Waaayyy before this Norwegian Psyop... I have pondered a lot on the fact that the perps can not only create fictious victims. But Also Fictious enemies.
E.G> I believe Osama was a real person. But I also wonder just how easy it would be to use Pixels instead of a real Osama.
I think it makes so much sense, that the perps would Use a sim for a Psy-op.
What I do understand from the way vicsim, are made, most of the time they seem to "cut n paste" a head from the neck up. And place it onto another image of a "body." (Neck down)
Example...
Paul Beyer, Brian Bilcher, "Throat Slit"



And in this example of Aussie Vicsim. Andrew Knox. One can see how the perps counter act this “throat slit” phenomenon.

His two other photos show him wearing attire that completely covers his neck...

So far, all the clear photos I have found of the Norwegian shooter, appear to show his neck covered up in some way.

More “Throat Camouflage” pics.




Even his Jail outfit????????? Give me a break... I’m no rocket scientist, but I aint stupid either.

Check out his once again “collared neck” in this dubious picture. Located in an article I just found Titled.
Mummy's boy who lurched to the Right was 'privileged' son of diplomat but despised his liberal family.
Link… http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=nor ... ORM=IDFRIR




Have a close at his neck… reminds me of what you said Antipodean.

There appears to be a shadow line cast across the neck which ends at the shirt, yet the shirt collar is casting its own shadow.

His neck Looks CGI Trashed Fail! (Like the rest of the picture)
Not re/reporting here but the article does actually give support to what I am. Suggesting, The Gunman is just a SIM!!!!!

"Described by friends as a 'mummy's boy' who did not leave home until the age of 30, he had few friends and no serious girlfriends.

So no one knew him??? Sims has no friends, coz they are not real.
I’m no expert, it only took me my gut hunch he was a sim, 1 hour, and few Google searches, 2 write the above post.
I only have used intuition and basic photo, and Vicsim knowledge I have learnt from Cluesforum. Info.
Can I suggest we spearhead this bogus nightmare “straight for the Jugular”?

[hoi.polloi]

Now that is some useful "debate", Equinox. Nice work!

[goodpeople]

In Australia, we had something of the same nature. It was called ‘the port Arthur massacre”
There is reason to think the Port Arthur massacre, was planned as early 1987 when, after a specially called Premier's meeting in Hobart in December 1987, the New South Wales Labor Premier, Mr. Barry Unsworth stated, "there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania".

The Port Arthur massacre happened in 1996… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthu ... Australia)

Anyways same deal... some guy apparently flips out, and kills a whole heap of people on an isolated Australian Island, with no police around (Tasmania)

This is interesting,

This was posted today.

Port Arthur massacre footage posted on internet

Updated July 28, 2011
Graphic police footage showing the aftermath of the 1996 Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania has been posted on the internet.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-28/p ... eo/2813556

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZttaFXwmG2A

I guess it's just a coincidence they release this video 6 days after the Norway Shooting. Right ?

[Equinox]

You need to prove things before you can accuse me of shilling first Hoi. There was once a time, in the truth movement where debate was encouraged.

Truth Movement????????????
You mean the false movement? If they were 4 real they would have 9/11 done n dusted.
Those guys are more faker than the Vicsims… In fact the I could debunk the whole truth movement in one sentence…

“The 9/11 truth movement, Key self proclaimed leaders have been caught out promoting the so called 9/11 truth movement, by affiliating with “PROVEN ACTORS”. Which falsely claim they have family members die? These actors are using the same Photo shopped photos of simulated identities. "

I strongly suggest watching this video...Asap

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aPvJSQtmoE

And having a good read through these threads. Too fathom the uphill battle of this research.
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewforum.php?f=20

Good people,
May I ever so politely suggest, stop quarrelling it seems shilly... quite proving what you percieve is real.. And start going back to actually spotting the Fakery of the Norway Psy-op.
E.G. – Arrows, n circles on the media footage. (That’s how we roll here)
Cheers.

[Equinox]

In Australia, we had something of the same nature. It was called ‘the port Arthur massacre”
There is reason to think the Port Arthur massacre, was planned as early 1987 when, after a specially called Premier's meeting in Hobart in December 1987, the New South Wales Labor Premier, Mr. Barry Unsworth stated, "there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania".

The Port Arthur massacre happened in 1996… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthu ... Australia)

Anyways same deal... some guy apparently flips out, and kills a whole heap of people on an isolated Australian Island, with no police around (Tasmania)

This is interesting,

This was posted today.

Port Arthur massacre footage posted on internet

Updated July 28, 2011
Graphic police footage showing the aftermath of the 1996 Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania has been posted on the internet.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-28/p ... eo/2813556

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZttaFXwmG2A

I guess it's just a coincidence they release this video 6 days after the Norway Shooting. Right ?

Woah.... nice find!! I will check it soon.

[goodpeople]

You need to prove things before you can accuse me of shilling first Hoi. There was once a time, in the truth movement where debate was encouraged.

Truth Movement????????????
You mean the false movement? If they were 4 real they would have 9/11 done n dusted.
Those guys are more faker than the Vicsims… In fact the I could debunk the whole truth movement in one sentence…

“The 9/11 truth movement, Key self proclaimed leaders have been caught out promoting the so called 9/11 truth movement, by affiliating with “PROVEN ACTORS”. Which falsely claim they have family members die? These actors are using the same Photo shopped photos of simulated identities. "

I strongly suggest watching this video...Asap

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aPvJSQtmoE

And having a good read through these threads. Too fathom the uphill battle of this research.
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewforum.php?f=20

Good people,
May I ever so politely suggest, stop quarrelling it seems shilly... quite proving what you percieve is real.. And start going back to actually spotting the Fakery of the Norway Psy-op.
E.G. – Arrows, n circles on the media footage. (That’s how we roll here)
Cheers.

Right. There are too many fake gate keepers, out there to trust any unknown person that comes around. I am familiar with the amount of infiltration. Just trying to get the straight facts, i'll be more concise with my research.

[SimonJCP]

The issues we raise have been censored on countless "truth movement" sites since they first appeared - sometimes seemingly to specifically target our questions against the media. Don't bullshit us and tell us we are part of the same "truth movement" that belongs to Alex Jones, Nico Haupt, Lets Roll, Loose Change, Michael Moore, A&E 911truth, Judy Wood, Wikileaks or anything else that has done as you do - produce excuse after excuse for the media.

May I ask how Nico Haupt is (was - he quit) a part of the same truth movement that the others listed belonged to?

I don't remember him making any excuses for the media. In fact, he was always very much aggressive toward those who would proclaim that the videos were real.

I was suspicious of his "crazy" displays at one time, and even attacked him publicly for it at 911movement. However, I've come to view it as an energetic, creative form of activism from someone whose sickened and frustrated by both the nature of the world and the "movement" in general. In a way, I admire his work at Ground Zero.

He never skirted around the truth and had a good deal of evidence establishing the connections between key figures in the "movement" and the defense industry. Without Nico, I would not have known that Richard Gage was a former employee of Bechtel.

Could he be feeding me and others gold to lead us into some pit of disinformation? Sure, but what pit of disinformation has he led anyone into? He "retired" from 9/11 research, so if that was his agenda he would have already carried it out.

I haven't seen him lead anyone into anything but NPT. We also should not forget that he was one of the pioneers in that area.

[goodpeople]

Port Arthur massacre footage posted on internet

Updated July 28, 2011
Graphic police footage showing the aftermath of the 1996 Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania has been posted on the internet.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-28/p ... eo/2813556

Port Arthur massacre Police training video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88a_1311782827

Then there is this... 4 seconds of a weird sky, weird trees and a dastardly zoom out/zoom in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crJdIUAnvZ8

Apparently both these videos have been out for quiet sometime. I guess they just wanted to remind us they were out there

[bostonterrierowner]

Let me add my 2 cents to this facebook-related argument

1.My farmer neighbour's pigs are not on facebook , that doesnt mean that they dont exist

2. My ex-girlfriend put my dogs on facebook , and attracted some 100 friends to them . She merged their two names into one , so they existed there as one dog/person

FB is not a proof of anything , analyzing it , can be useful for research , thats all , but building the whole case on one's existence there is childish or worse . I am as sure as I can be right now that there are no real victims in Norway PsyOp . No matter what facebook might suggest Killing actual people , kids in Norway would be far more complicated and problematic for perps than doing it in USA. Its a highly developed , rich and open society with very efficient courts and justice system. 2 pissed parents can cause real havoc in this environment .

Regards