Space and the middle east

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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby Surface on March 9th, 2016, 7:02 pm

I am finding your posts choke full of plausible facts and quick mini-conclusions. Especially your digging into Islam and the Arabic world is performed with tasteful skills. I especially found the mention of that rural stone-age Iranian girl story very amusing and also comical. I hope it was actually meant to be comical because this is what it was.
These are the first posts of this thread but I cannot see where your post is headed. You lay out some coherent issues with plenty of examples, historical and current. But as someone not as intelligent as others here, I cannot form a coherent "result" or theory from these all on my own. Something like a prediction that we can later say "ha! That didn't happen after all" or "this exactly happened the way it was predicted". Maybe you can start going beyond these examples and tell us about what you propose is the ultimate purpose of these seemingly coherent and targeted historical or current matters, beyond pure show for keeping people busy in guessing.
I do see tranvestism and transexualism around in the media. I see statue of liberty is a man in drag. I see old Persian literature is actually pure homoerotic nonsense. But I fail to see how this is going to achieve anything substantial on its own. Iranian literature was entirely homoerotic around 900 to 700 years ago, probably the exact time frame where central Asian Turkic tribes migrated into Iran and further West settled in present day Turkey and azerbaijan. These people surely brought their own culture with them and it seems to me that the homoerotic literature and this migration was linked. So are the countless cults that flourished in Iran later, maybe not directly with these central Asian migrants but with the general current that this created in Iran.
If you examine older Iranian literature, like 1000 years old literature before this era, you can easily see the difference. There was zero homoeroticism in that older literature. But after about 900 to 700 years ago we have almost exclusive homoeroticism and especially transvestism as the masterpieces of Iranian literature!
But what did this actually achieve? Nothing. Really. Isn't this exactly you see today in the modern world? How can this top what I see in old Iranian literature? And how can this latest wave achieve anything? And if it does, what is that thing?
Space programs another play on old mythology. ISS a temple in heaven where select priests go for prayers. Call them freemasons or Eskimos, makes little difference to the ultimate picture. A continuation of mythology. Actually all of these can be seen as continuing mythology into present day. Myths across the ages always needed renewal. Older myths sold to the public in new "modern" form. Today we see our modern myths created with old templates. How is this time different? Maybe this idea of "this time it is different" was also a hallmark of all myths across the ages? If you have knowledge of the Koran you will understand what I am referring to.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby fubarfuthark on March 9th, 2016, 9:02 pm

Surface wrote:I am finding your posts choke full of plausible facts and quick mini-conclusions. Especially your digging into Islam and the Arabic world is performed with tasteful skills. I especially found the mention of that rural stone-age Iranian girl story very amusing and also comical. I hope it was actually meant to be comical because this is what it was.
These are the first posts of this thread but I cannot see where your post is headed. You lay out some coherent issues with plenty of examples, historical and current. But as someone not as intelligent as others here, I cannot form a coherent "result" or theory from these all on my own. Something like a prediction that we can later say "ha! That didn't happen after all" or "this exactly happened the way it was predicted". Maybe you can start going beyond these examples and tell us about what you propose is the ultimate purpose of these seemingly coherent and targeted historical or current matters, beyond pure show for keeping people busy in guessing.
I do see tranvestism and transexualism around in the media. I see statue of liberty is a man in drag. I see old Persian literature is actually pure homoerotic nonsense. But I fail to see how this is going to achieve anything substantial on its own. Iranian literature was entirely homoerotic around 900 to 700 years ago, probably the exact time frame where central Asian Turkic tribes migrated into Iran and further West settled in present day Turkey and azerbaijan. These people surely brought their own culture with them and it seems to me that the homoerotic literature and this migration was linked. So are the countless cults that flourished in Iran later, maybe not directly with these central Asian migrants but with the general current that this created in Iran.
If you examine older Iranian literature, like 1000 years old literature before this era, you can easily see the difference. There was zero homoeroticism in that older literature. But after about 900 to 700 years ago we have almost exclusive homoeroticism and especially transvestism as the masterpieces of Iranian literature!
But what did this actually achieve? Nothing. Really. Isn't this exactly you see today in the modern world? How can this top what I see in old Iranian literature? And how can this latest wave achieve anything? And if it does, what is that thing?
Space programs another play on old mythology. ISS a temple in heaven where select priests go for prayers. Call them freemasons or Eskimos, makes little difference to the ultimate picture. A continuation of mythology. Actually all of these can be seen as continuing mythology into present day. Myths across the ages always needed renewal. Older myths sold to the public in new "modern" form. Today we see our modern myths created with old templates. How is this time different? Maybe this idea of "this time it is different" was also a hallmark of all myths across the ages? If you have knowledge of the Koran you will understand what I am referring to.


I think you get it pretty much. There are no real conclusions in my posts because I dont have any conclusions. I am just trying to make some connections between things, get some ideas going, get our dusty neurons firing, if indeed neurons exist!

Of course the story about the Iranian girl was comical, that film was utterly ridiculous! Nice post by the way, I think you have some good ideas. I think your renewal of myths idea is pretty much spot on, as if there are actually only a limited number of archetypal stories available for humanity, it does not matter if they are set in spain or space. One is reminded of the way many of the stories of the saints of Ireland or Scandinavia are actually just retelling of old pagan tales and no doubt, exactly the same thing goes on in the middle east with tales from the cult of angels, the sabeans, zoroaster. And the crossover between history, myth and legend are entirely fluid. Basically, its all just one massive shaggy dog story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

Star Trek: space the final frontier (its basically a western). Now space has been tamed and made into a 'safe space'.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby fubarfuthark on March 9th, 2016, 10:59 pm

@Surface

Can you recommend me some old Iranian literature that do not involve Xerxes mincing around the ISS dressed as the statue of liberty? What are the classics? Are they translated?
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby Surface on March 10th, 2016, 2:24 am

fubarfuthark wrote:@Surface

Can you recommend me some old Iranian literature that do not involve Xerxes mincing around the ISS dressed as the statue of liberty? What are the classics? Are they translated?


That's funny, I checked back here to ask you almost the exact question about mythology! But first I need to figure out why I am not getting notification for posts events after I subscribed to the post. I cannot keep checking back all my posts every day. I will surely miss replies in future.
Now, as for your question. Well, ummmm, where should I start? As I mentioned before, Iranian literature from a certain stage was influenced by homosexuality and transvestism. See the following link, but be warned, some of the translations in this link are intentionally incorrect. Especially the ones referring to pedophilia, which I couldn't find any trace of in Iranian literature whatsoever. These translations are obviously different from the Persian text.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/homosexuality-iii
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran ( must be read with a bowl of salt! )

A guy called "Ehsan Yarshater" is probably the first guy who was permitted or maybe commissioned to expose openly this homoeroticism in Iranian literature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehsan_Yarshater

Now with this fact out of the way, I can divide the Iranian literature into two segments. One is the literature before this period. And one after it. If you ignore what Wikipedia says about general continuum in culture in Iran, which is not correct, we have a traditional Iranian literature from 1000 years ago before the eastern invasions. A great deal could be learned about the world affairs by that single masterpiece of world literature called "Shahnameh" meaning in Persian "recounting the story of the king(s)".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahnameh
I cannot possibly over-emphasize the excellence of this work. Beyond anything that was ever produced, this work is truly mind boggling in its linguistic perfection and shear volume. I am not saying this from pride, since the guy who wrote this himself is complaining of destruction of his heritage at the hand of invaders. WE ARE those invaders! At least I am being fair to that old and destroyed heritage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdowsi
This guy "Ferdowsi" who has written this masterpiece says that he is preserving the old Persian mythology and language from extinction. He actually spent his entire life doing this. Hint for the intelligent scholar "ancient mythology is in this book!" We have a limited set of mythology you said. no? You can find it there then. There are facts there that will blow your mind. In a good way I mean!
This work is so linguistically perfect, I cannot imagine what the education, lifestyle, mentality, intelligence of those old real, not fake, Persians were who could create such a thing. It is a very long poem, I have never read it fully, but I will from tomorrow hopefully. There is a translation, but seriously, that wasn't the point of the poem! I think the best English translation is just a few decades old, which is pretty weird, given the weight and significance of this text. Oh, and the bad guy in this poem is called "white devil"!!!
With this real masterpiece out of the way, we have our (in) famous works of literature that won't leave you any the wiser. These other works are in another league. They come in both verse and prose. There are levels of prose, from simple, to incredibly tough called "constructed prose" so difficult to understand, they were our nightmare at school even a small paragraph of them. They have removed all the traces of these masterpieces of prose from modern school books. I regret that very much actually.
As for the verse, we have this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafez

And this other guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saadi_Shirazi

They are from the same school of thought, more or less, from the same city, and they were both fluent in both Arabic and Persian, to the extent that they could create poetry in both equally well. And this "Hafez" guy actually makes poetry with half the line in Farsi, and the other half in Arabic! Hence you really need to know both Arabic AND Farsi to fully understand the original. I do understand Arabic somehow and know the grammar reasonably well.
Oh, and if you search the word "Hafez" and look at the images, you will see, that's right, "Conchita Wurst"!!! See? Told you. It all started here.
As for the translations, really I don't think there is any sense even in the original Persian of these works. Surely they are all by themselves literary masterpieces, in the sense that there is a great deal of technicality in their work that I personally don't even come close to understanding. But they are mostly form rather than function. The weird cult language that they extensively use is a bit unsettling. They keep referring to mysterious cults, mysterious houses where orgies are done, mysterious temples, mysterious figures. Sh errr people think these poems have esoteric meanings that cannot be easily understood and even these creepy poems in their own text keep referring to the "initiated" as opposed to sh errr people! Really I don't think English translations will convey that weird meaning without sounding ridiculous. But I will check and will let you know if I found anything interesting.
It must be like reading translation of Koran. The original Arabic although extremely simple in grammar, has totally different feel to it from the translations. Even the most silly verses in translations of Koran, read and understood in Arabic will appear to be full of esoteric meaning. I am not saying it is actually full of esoteric meaning, not at all, but sh errr people could be excused if they thought so.
These works I mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. There are some little known but very significant poets who's works actually deal with old Persian myths and Kings. I doubt any of these are translated at all.
Persian language has obviously been far richer in the past, I cannot so easily and quickly read and understand any of these. All of that has been lost centuries ago. The language has been dumbed down.
But to recap, that first work I mentioned "Shahnameh" is the source of old mythology. The other ones from the era of homoerotic, esoteric poets, these are the source for cults and secret society stuff. They give a picture of the emerging, or long existing secret societies of that time. Whether that picture is correct or not, or what was their objective in commissioning these incredible literary works to make their presence known, 700 years ago, is anybody's guess.
And last but not least, if you want to quickly and easily get a taste of ancient Persian epic poems, written by real Persians, not fake ones, just read the poetry of a guy called "John Dryden".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dryden
I am not yet that crazy but the verse of this guy is so incredibly close to the style of Hakim Ferdowsi, I think there is a direct connection somewhere.
For example read this masterpiece by John Dryden :

http://classics.mit.edu/Virgil/aeneid.html

I swear I see Shahnameh right in front of my eyes when reading these!
John Dryden is hands down the greatest literary figure in English literature. Ever! He says that it is easier for him to write in verse than in prose. Indeed that is the spirit.
I think we do need a serious comparative study of mythology with our space science. I think this could be an excellent litmus test for identifying fake science!
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby Apache on March 10th, 2016, 8:38 am

Surface wrote:But first I need to figure out why I am not getting notification for posts events after I subscribed to the post. I cannot keep checking back all my posts every day. I will surely miss replies in future.


I have the same problem, so you are not alone and it's not a problem stemming from your end. Notification of replies hasn't worked for me since I joined last October and I have to read every post on the board since my last login. So far I've missed no replies to threads I have contributed to, but then again I've got the time to do that and others don't.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby ICfreely on March 10th, 2016, 12:33 pm

fubarfuthark wrote:@Surface
Can you recommend me some old Iranian literature that do not involve Xerxes mincing around the ISS dressed as the statue of liberty?


I Hope you don't mind if I jump in. The Hollywood (per)version of Xerxes (the film 300) has nothing to do with the Iranian version.

What are the classics? Are they translated?


Frankly, there are too many to name and you guys have them all! :D

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/search.aspx?searchText=persia

Taking into consideration the buffoons who currently run Iran I’m very grateful that they’re in your hands. You’re better custodians. ;) Our myths are your myths in many ways. Here are a couple space-timeless classics:

The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám (Persian: رباعیات عمر خیام‎‎) is the title that Edward FitzGerald gave to his translation of a selection of poems, originally written in Persian and numbering about a thousand, attributed to Omar Khayyám (1048–1131), a Persian poet, mathematician, and astronomer. A ruba'i is a two-line stanza with two parts (or hemistichs) per line, hence the word rubáiyát (derived from the Arabic language root for "four"), meaning "quatrains".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubaiyat_of_Omar_Khayyam


The Conference of the Birds or Speech of the Birds (Arabic: منطق الطیر‎, Manṭiq-uṭ-Ṭayr, also known as مقامات الطیور Maqāmāt-uṭ-Ṭuyūr; 1177), is a long poem of approximately 4500 lines written in Persian by the poet Farid ud-Din Attar, who is commonly known as Attar of Nishapur.

In the poem, the birds of the world gather to decide who is to be their king, as they have none. The hoopoe, the wisest of them all, suggests that they should find the legendary Simorgh, a mythical Persian bird roughly equivalent to the western phoenix. The hoopoe leads the birds, each of whom represent a human fault which prevents man from attaining enlightenment. When the group of thirty birds finally reach the dwelling place of the Simorgh, all they find is a lake[citation needed] in which they see their own reflection.

Besides being one of the most celebrated examples of Persian poetry, this book relies on a clever word play between the words Simorgh – a mysterious bird in Iranian mythology which is a symbol often found in sufi literature, and similar to the phoenix bird – and "si morgh" – meaning "thirty birds" in Persian.

It was in China, late one moonless night,
The Simorgh first appeared to mortal sight –
He let a feather float down through the air
And rumours of its fame spread everywhere;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds




Surface wrote:This guy "Ferdowsi" who has written this masterpiece says that he is preserving the old Persian mythology and language from extinction.


Thereby preserving the Iranian/Human spirit.

Surface wrote:This work is so linguistically perfect, I cannot imagine what the education, lifestyle, mentality, intelligence of those old real, not fake, Persians were who could create such a thing.


Well put, Surface!

Surface wrote:There are levels of prose, from simple, to incredibly tough called "constructed prose" so difficult to understand, they were our nightmare at school even a small paragraph of them.


Schools have a funny way of turning dreams into nightmares, but I get what you mean.

Surface wrote:They have removed all the traces of these masterpieces of prose from modern school books. I regret that very much actually.


Sadly you speak the truth! But the parents & grandparents, who cherish their books like family photo albums, are filling the void. They can’t kill the spirit.

Really I don't think English translations will convey that weird meaning without sounding ridiculous.


Exactamundo! Give the man a prize. ;)

I think we do need a serious comparative study of mythology with our space science.


Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department! :P
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby fubarfuthark on March 10th, 2016, 4:21 pm

This thread is turning quite educational and intriguing. Suddenly I have a desire to learn Farsi.

I suppose every culture has been through the same thing. Dont even get me started on what has been done to the Norse mythology, the eddas and the runes. As for Irish/Scots gaelic and the associated culture, myths and stories, or for that matter, the absolutely beautiful welsh language, the deathstar that is London has mostly destroyed all that. Did anyone here, for example, know that in Scots-Gaelic, every letter in the alphabet represents a specific tree?

(for the iranians here, if they dont know why Scots-Irish like myself have a problem with the British government.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fam ... ing_Famine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_ ... _the_Sheep

And...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondsla ... nient-myth
who is behind it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDemocracy
Aha, the fucking rockefeller institute.

Actually very few people know the REAL truth about Scotland and the slave trade. All that is known is some generalities about Scots building the ships in Glasgow that were later used to transport Africans. Not so much coverage of the fact that they were also putting highlanders on the ships in large numbers. Not to mention what REALLY went on with Cromwell, with William of Orange, with pressganging...

Perhaps someone can start a Jacobite movement in Tehran, stressing the kinship between Bonnie Prince Charlie (who was actually Polish) and Ahura Mazda...
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby fubarfuthark on March 10th, 2016, 4:50 pm

@surface

I am very intrigued by your mention of Dryden and Virgil. I will have to look once more at some Dryden. I remember translating the Aeneid from Latin into english in my school days. Even though doing this (at the time) was very boring in some ways, not much can cause such writing to lose its power, even translation. Its funny I was thinking the other day about Duzakh and Ahriman and about how it was actually claimed, some years ago, in the British press that Ahmadinejad's apocalyptic plans included raising Ahriman out of the well to end the world. I can even remember my father getting upset about this because he believes the news, or at least did more or less back then. Only a few years ago, Iran was portrayed in Britain as totally backwards and dangerous.

I was also thinking this afternoon, on the bus, for some reason, about the figure of Dajjal and the cyclops of Euripides, then about some video i saw once of that bizarre Islamic endtimes truther imren hosseini, talking about Dajjal, Iblis and the dead coming back to life in the context of holograms. Dunno why. I think I need a job that occupies more of my time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vaHLxhSfE

I think this was the video, though I am not sure. He seems to have put out tonnes of endtimes videos. He claims Dajjal to be in charge of 'legions of western feminists'.

Persian mythology comes up a lot in anthroposophical teaching. Just the other day I actually saw some people in Scotland perform a prayer to Ahura Mazda.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby brianv on March 10th, 2016, 6:17 pm

fubarfuthark wrote:This thread is turning quite educational and intriguing. Suddenly I have a desire to learn Farsi.

I suppose every culture has been through the same thing. Dont even get me started on what has been done to the Norse mythology, the eddas and the runes. As for Irish/Scots gaelic and the associated culture, myths and stories, or for that matter, the absolutely beautiful welsh language, the deathstar that is London has mostly destroyed all that. Did anyone here, for example, know that in Scots-Gaelic, every letter in the alphabet represents a specific tree?

(for the iranians here, if they dont know why Scots-Irish like myself have a problem with the British government.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fam ... ing_Famine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_ ... _the_Sheep

And...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondsla ... nient-myth
who is behind it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDemocracy
Aha, the fucking rockefeller institute.

Actually very few people know the REAL truth about Scotland and the slave trade. All that is known is some generalities about Scots building the ships in Glasgow that were later used to transport Africans. Not so much coverage of the fact that they were also putting highlanders on the ships in large numbers. Not to mention what REALLY went on with Cromwell, with William of Orange, with pressganging...

Perhaps someone can start a Jacobite movement in Tehran, stressing the kinship between Bonnie Prince Charlie (who was actually Polish) and Ahura Mazda...


Don't start me on Ireland "fubar". We are currently suffering "The 1916 Rising Hoax" fever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

The "Famine", in my opinion, was probably the work of a combination of players, namely the Irish Banks, Thomas Malthus and the Crown and the need to populate Barnum and Baileys Circus.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby fubarfuthark on March 10th, 2016, 7:07 pm

brianv wrote:
fubarfuthark wrote:This thread is turning quite educational and intriguing. Suddenly I have a desire to learn Farsi.

I suppose every culture has been through the same thing. Dont even get me started on what has been done to the Norse mythology, the eddas and the runes. As for Irish/Scots gaelic and the associated culture, myths and stories, or for that matter, the absolutely beautiful welsh language, the deathstar that is London has mostly destroyed all that. Did anyone here, for example, know that in Scots-Gaelic, every letter in the alphabet represents a specific tree?

(for the iranians here, if they dont know why Scots-Irish like myself have a problem with the British government.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fam ... ing_Famine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_ ... _the_Sheep

And...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondsla ... nient-myth
who is behind it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDemocracy
Aha, the fucking rockefeller institute.

Actually very few people know the REAL truth about Scotland and the slave trade. All that is known is some generalities about Scots building the ships in Glasgow that were later used to transport Africans. Not so much coverage of the fact that they were also putting highlanders on the ships in large numbers. Not to mention what REALLY went on with Cromwell, with William of Orange, with pressganging...

Perhaps someone can start a Jacobite movement in Tehran, stressing the kinship between Bonnie Prince Charlie (who was actually Polish) and Ahura Mazda...


Don't start me on Ireland "fubar". We are currently suffering "The 1916 Rising Hoax" fever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

The "Famine", in my opinion, was probably the work of a combination of players, namely the Irish Banks, Thomas Malthus and the Crown and the need to populate Barnum and Baileys Circus.


I know about the Easter Rising hoax. I guess you are living through the anniversary. That must be a right bummer. I guess you'll be hearing a lot of the poetry of WB Yeats. Whaddya reckon? Perp? Golden Dawn, this we already know.

Maybe someone can get that very 'irish' irishman Peter Sutherland to read Yeats' poem to Maud Gonne

My arms are like the twisted thorn
And yet there beauty lay;
The first of all the tribe lay there
And did such pleasure take;
She who had brought great Hector down
And put all Troy to wreck.


Is there ANYTHING actually real about the IRA, or actual about the real IRA? :lol:
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n44a15.html

Its funny, but I was thinking the other day about the idea of James Joyce as a perp, writing these books that totally confuse people, endless ENDLESS Bloomsday nonsense, postmodernism intertextuality as preparing the way for our 'there is no difference between signifier and signifier' fake, lit-crit safe-space costa-coffee afterworld. If only God-big Finn would come and just stuff modern Dublin and its tax laws into his hempen drawers, trail 40 pigs behind him and hide behind his staff whilst reciting staves of melodious Irish.

Are you saying the famine itself was a hoax? This is a new one for me, I generally tend to simply believe the worst about anything to do with the British crown and the london banks. Who the fuck knows? Maybe that is actually just also a form of idiotic prejudice. Perhaps nothing ever really happens at all and people just make stuff up to keep us on our toes.

Not ALL of it can be a hoax though. I have a (not close) family member in Ireland who did time for a bombing. The building DID explode, or did at least burn down.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby brianv on March 10th, 2016, 9:19 pm

^
Perhaps more suitable for another thread, but just to reply anyway.

There was not a Food Famine in Ireland, one crop allegedly failed. No biggie. We have food growing out our proverbials. Most of the Irish population is located around the coasts, we have the largest river and lakes in Euorpe - fish and shell-fish everywhere! British warships were terrorising the coasts to prevent the local fishermen fishing, inland also. We have the best horse, cattle and pig and poultry breeding farm lands to be found anywhere. (HRH has her horses bred here - Tax Free of course.) Corn and barley and wheatfields as far as the eye can see. Ditto vegetables, carrots, turnip, parsnip etc etc. It all went abroad at gunpoint. Likely to feed the starving population of Manchester and the other rat infested cities around the UK. The British "army" and "navy" would have had their share also.

Regarding the Freemasonic Brotherhood NOT the IRA that was "involved" in the 1916 Rising...did you hear the one about the Irishman, the Scotsman and the Englishman who went to the Post Office and read a letter proclaiming some freedom rubbish or other and were all executed the next day? Reads - went back to their day jobs in London.

Did you know Patrick Pearse was a Barrister at the Kings Inns in Dublin - the real seat of British power in Ireland. Check the others, like "Carson" the Father of Unionism in the North. https://www.kingsinns.ie/alumni/notable-alumni

( edit: Our legal eagle might give his opinion on the Legal Meaning of "Condemned to Death"? )

The recent "IRA" well now, I do believe that's 50% real and 50% fantasy. As readers here know, I narrowly missed a car bomb exploding.

But I do have serious doubts about the Balcombe St Siege, Omagh Bomb, the Manchester Bombings, Canary Wharf Bombings, The Gibraltar 3, the Brighton Bomb and a raft of other incidents.
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby ICfreely on March 10th, 2016, 11:09 pm

The Magical Mystery Tour...

IRAN: Country and people

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C6RbxkkiyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C6RbxkkiyE

2:18 – Ali Sadr Cave, Hamadan
6:05 – Mausoleum of Mortdecai
16:30 - Caesar's dam
19:42 – Shush
23:30 – Shiraz, Pars
28:35 – Persepolis
29:28 – Tomb of Cyrus - Pasargadae, Pars
29:51 – Solomon’s Prison
30:24 – Yazd, Iran
35:33 – Esfahan Square
40:05 - Kashan, Esfahan – the most Ancient city of Iran – home of the three wise men – 3 Magi – magicians

Iran - People of the Flames Zoroastrians

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLXnteRDO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPLXnteRDO4
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby Surface on March 10th, 2016, 11:48 pm

Errr, sorry for interrupting the interesting conversation, but, hello, we have the middle east here!
That "conference of the birds " ICfreely mentioned is also an excellent work well worth the study. That one is considered to be a more "pleasant" form of literature, aiming to educate and entertain at the same time. There are quite a lot of that style of literature, they portray animals as intellectual beings, endowed with deep complex philosophical and psychological qualities. Your typical Disney animation! However all these works need to be understood in original to be meaningful and maybe even this probably needs to be done in some relevant environment and context. As for actually learning Farsi, even superficially, there is an unsurmountable hurdle to that end. The problem is that in Farsi, just like in Arabic and Hebrew, the vowels are not written by the script itself but with optional signs added to the script, and this is actually never done at all. Modern Persian uses Arabic script and both are written without any vowel signs, just like regular Hebrew. The difference is that for Arabic and Hebrew the verbs are made from three letter stems and then in Arabic once you learn the stem and the general templates for verb-making process, you can rather easily guess which verb is pronounced in what way. You can make adjectives, nouns from that stem and pronounce them properly. But Persian has zero grammatical connection with Arabic or Hebrew. It has plenty of Arabic words but they are pronounce differently from Arabic itself. You cannot even start to learn one word of Persian without first knowing how that word is pronounced, and you won't learn this properly without knowing the language itself. A vicious circle. Another point to note is that statistics show Persian is actually spoken by less than 50% of Iranians as first language! The majority of Iranians are actually bilingual, they speak a regional language, plus the official Persian. Those regional languages are not dialects of Persian, but rather all from Indo-European language families, mainly southeastern or Caspian or central Asian languages, still not variations of modern Persian itself. Those who do speak modern Persian, have their own set of regional vocabularies, expressions, and more importantly, rude words! These rude words seems to play a critical role in social interaction, used for fun, entertainment, relaxation, insult, praise, normal conversation, abnormal conversation, expressions of love, hate, terms of endearment, disgust, joy, approval, disapproval, for starting fights, ending fights, etc to mention a few. Let's just say that rude words are pretty versatile in Persian dialects, especially some dialects.
I also checked the video link and watched a few minutes. Reminds me of Alex Jones show. I hope you are aware that the Sheikh is actually acting. This is very well known in the Middle East. He is your typical "two-face". He shows up with a concerned look on his face, exposes some lies, buttresses some other lies, and adds quite a few lies of his own. All the while keeping a straight face. The Sheikh is not to be believed or trusted, no matter how skillful he is in taking temporary moral highgrounds. This is traditional middle eastern errr "way of acting", there is a good word for it though. He tells you nice stories seemingly full of wisdom. But he won't hesitate one moment to turn all his words upside down if it suites his own pleasure and profit. If anything, his obvious deep knowledge of methods of sexual slavery and exploitation must cause alarm in any viewer, no matter how much disgust the two-faced Sheikh is showing for that! The obsession of Sheikhs with sexual topics, under the pretext of their disgust with immoral practices, has always been suspicious. The Sheikh seems to be in need of keeping up-to-date with latest trends in sexual perversions, and they talk about them while obviously salivating! Be warned!
The Sheikhs are also masters of "we told you so" sermons. The reason they can predict the future is that there is no future! Future has no life of its own. It is engineered.
NASA 's universe seems to be compatible with Islamic philosophy, not because they predicted the future, but because the future is MADE that way. This is what Sheikhs in the middle east thrive on. Here is an excellent example:

http://quran.com/51/47

"And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are expanders."

The original Arabic says "wa inna lamawse'un" meaning "and indeed we are expanders"! The Arabic stem here is" va-sa-a", one word that comes to mind from this stem is "vasi' " adjective meaning "stretched far" and also "al-tawsia' " noun meaning "development". What is common in use of this Arabic stem is for "stretching", "making to expand farther". In the above koran verse it makes sense to mean "stretch" because of the previous use of the word "strength". There you are, Islam predicted expansion of the universe 14 centuries ago! Miracle! The only little problem is that the expansion of the universe was confirmed by using fake equipment, and fake data.
As I said before, Sheikhs of the middle east or beyond use such fake science findings to reinforce their own base, at the same time mutually reinforcing the lies. They introduce the belief in fake science among their followers by bringing "modern science" findings into their sermons and books and websites, and mixing it with their own dogmas, this helps them to gather followers from among the so-called educated, at the same time removing the doubts of the uneducated, getting a stranglehold on both!
NASA seems to be very sensitive to this issue, given that they finally established that Koran is actually correct in its expanding universe claim! Otherwise it could have been very embarrassing for the Sheikh, no?
Surface
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby ICfreely on March 11th, 2016, 1:10 am

In other words, what's puzzling you is the nature of my game?

For the record, I speak Assyrian, Armenian, Farsi, English, Spanish & French. What part of Iran are you from and what other languages do you speak?
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Re: Space and the middle east

Postby ICfreely on March 11th, 2016, 5:01 am

Serendipity in Iran
"The conquest by the Arabs, with which the poem ends, is seen as an unmitigated disaster," Davis said. "To sum up and oversimplify: Ferdowsi is not anti-Moslem, but he is quite vehemently anti-Arab."
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/october22/davistwo-102208.html


Is this your favored/idealized version of Ferdowsi?
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