Space and the middle east

[Surface]

Your video sparked a new idea. I think you couldn't have guessed your topic will lead to this but now I see it was inevitable.
In Iran NASA's work is considered 100% legitimate. No fake is officially suspected. I made a Persian language search and found that one of the top results is a guy vehemently debunking, not NASA, but NASA moon landing doubters! One Web publication that actually had an article about fake moon landings was a website directly owned and operated by Iran revolutionary guards! Even in that the article is a very long translation, dealing with "moving flag" among others, and this moving flag being the favorite of NASA trolls, was actually taken up in comment section for ridicule of the article. However even such websites won't go beyond moon landing and indeed even moon landing officially seen as an undisputed fact. Other than the fake moon landing, I think other space hoaxes are totally unheard of among the Iranian educated who know a bit of English. School children are actually taught about ISS by their physics teachers and fake videos of Astronuts in fake ISS is shown to them.
It seems that in the middle east the space hoaxes of NASA et al are feverishly sold to the public. I highly doubt this is accidental. I think NASA is finding new audience for itself, people who will bind their faith to it. The religious scholars in the middle east trust NASA at least for now. I need to make an Arabic search for this but I wish we had a native Arabic speaker to help us more efficiently. NASA is losing credibility in the western world really fast, but what about in the middle east? I don't see any credibility threat from Iranian population. Especially if this is tied to pride, people might have a lot of difficulty seeing the reality, and think that someone wants to deprive them of their achievement. I have heard the name of that Anoosheh Ansari mentioned to me much more than once as an example of Iranian space achievement!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anousheh_Ansari

Yeah here we all take these for granted but there are populations out there who are going to have a lot of difficulties in accepting the truth. I think NASA is very well aware of this and the theoretical physics, cosmology, theories dealing with structure of mater and universe, physical theories that try to cross over into metaphysical ontology, these will surely get a form more compatible with middle eastern philosophy, to appeal more to this population. I heard that our current cosmology is already compatible with Hindu teachings, but I need to confirm that myself.
These are new perspectives I am gaining from this thread and I think might lead to some solid results, like a theory that we can test!

[ICfreely]

In Iran NASA's work is considered 100% legitimate. No fake is officially suspected.

I know.

These are new perspectives I am gaining from this thread and I think might lead to some solid results, like a theory that we can test!

Sounds interesting.

School children are actually taught about ISS by their physics teachers and fake videos of Astronuts in fake ISS is shown to them.

Ah yes! The good old days.

I need to make an Arabic search for this but I wish we had a native Arabic speaker to help us more efficiently.

Assyrian is pretty close but sorry I'm not a Sheikh. Man Irani hastam.

Especially if this is tied to pride, people might have a lot of difficulty seeing the reality, and think that someone wants to deprive them of their achievement.

So do I!

[Surface]

Mr ICfreely,
My post about the Sheikh was NOT direct at you! It was analysis of a video posted by fubarthark!
I think the rules of this forum is clear. I need to stick to the subject matter of the thread and contribute meaningful posts. I am pretty sure we are talking about space hoaxes not Persian literature. I mentioned those only as sources of mythology because it seems to me that NASA is just acting out myths. This is a clue that we can work on.
I have no personal interests in historical events of past or present, but I need to maintain a high degree of honesty in any subject matter.
My top priority here is figuring out broadly 1) how much of our science is to be trusted, probably very little, 2) whether the search for true knowledge is continuing in secret 3) if not, was there a search once and it was abandoned? 4) if so why was it abandoned? 5) if there was never a serious search, why this was the case?
I have NO, like not at all, interest in ANYTHING else. Especially no interest in people, as in "human beings". Hint, I refuse to be fooled by a fake science created by a two-legged animal. I hope I clearly showcased my mentality with this last sentence.
You can answer above questions? I am ready to listen.

[ICfreely]

My post about the Sheikh was NOT direct at you! It was analysis of a video posted by fubarthark!

My bad, Surface.

I mentioned those only as sources of mythology because it seems to me that NASA is just acting out myths. This is a clue that we can work on.

In the beginning...there was the Epic of Gilgamesh, Enuma Elish and Book of Enoch.

I have no personal interests in historical events of past or present, but I need to maintain a high degree of honesty in any subject matter. My top priority here is figuring out broadly 1) how much of our science is to be trusted, probably very little, 2) whether the search for true knowledge is continuing in secret 3) if not, was there a search once and it was abandoned? 4) if so why was it abandoned? 5) if there was never a serious search, why this was the case?

That's deep! You may be Irani after all.

You can answer above questions? I am ready to listen.

You're asking for a dissertation. You can answer the above questions, can't you?

[Surface]

Mr ICfreely
Of course I cannot answer those questions, but I hopefully included all the possibilities. It is very frustrating to be in this situation and I don't find it funny at all. I always noticed gaps and dead ends in my studies of physics. Chemistry seemed a dead end right from the start. Calculations that predict chemical reactions are not what I would call science. Real science will tell me what exactly is going on, not just the personal opinion of a random guy at the top!
How is it that Iranians 500 years ago had access to math that is said to be unknown until a few years ago, and was rediscovered?! How could they work out this math with a stick and I need a computer algorithm to replicate it? How could they so easily understand that math without any need for advanced math, but today I cannot even read the book that explains the same thing, because of the advanced math used in "rediscovery"?! Who is making these subjects intentionally complicated and why?

[ICfreely]

Agha Surface,

You need to dig deeper!

It is very frustrating to be in this situation and I don't find it funny at all.

Relax!

Chemistry seemed a dead end right from the start. Calculations that predict chemical reactions are not what I would call science. Real science will tell me what exactly is going on, not just the personal opinion of a random guy at the top!

You eliminate as many bad/weak theories/explanations as you can and voila! Your senses will tell you what exactly is going on

How could they work out this math with a stick and I need a computer algorithm to replicate it?

The math has been around since 'the beginning.' You don't need a computer to replicate it.

How could they so easily understand that math without any need for advanced math, but today I cannot even read the book that explains the same thing, because of the advanced math used in "rediscovery"?!

Because they hadn't 'discovered' all the complex theories we're currently shackled with.

Who is making these subjects intentionally complicated and why?

All of us, by buying into them in the first place. But you have to learn it before you can unlearn it.
I'm not kidding. Anyhow, it's midnight but you've got my attention!

[fubarfuthark]

Frankly, there are too many to name and you guys have them all!

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... ext=persia

Taking into consideration the buffoons who currently run Iran I’m very grateful that they’re in your hands. You’re better custodians. Our myths are your myths in many ways. Here are a couple space-timeless classics:

I am not sure. In Iran they might simply be sold or lost. In Britain, our perps would probably use some high-tech instruments to alter the originals, probably to prove something imperial-themed, like that the land on which the Bam citadel is located actually belongs to St. John's College Oxford, or something.

Speaking of which, the Bam earthquake. Any thoughts?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 349353.stm

[Surface]

Frankly, there are too many to name and you guys have them all!

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... ext=persia

Taking into consideration the buffoons who currently run Iran I’m very grateful that they’re in your hands. You’re better custodians. Our myths are your myths in many ways. Here are a couple space-timeless classics:

I am not sure. In Iran they might simply be sold or lost. In Britain, our perps would probably use some high-tech instruments to alter the originals, probably to prove something imperial-themed, like that the land on which the Bam citadel is located actually belongs to St. John's College Oxford, or something.

Speaking of which, the Bam earthquake. Any thoughts?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 349353.stm

Exactly what I was thinking when I read that paragraph. I learned just the other day that the Davis translation of Shahnameh is actually abridged! I see in reviews in amazon the complaints that the translation is abridged.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Shahnameh-Per ... 0143104934
Someone, apparently a shill, in the comments says that it is not practical to publish a complete translation of this work because it would be become a thousand page book. Actual my Persian copy is not a thousand pages, but rather 2500 pages. I wonder what parts of it they have censored. I also saw in other comments for other translations shills claim that this book is repetitive and boring, obviously to discourage others from reading it. Another ridiculous translation, by Helen Zimmern

http://classics.mit.edu/Ferdowsi/kings.html

This one changes all the Persian name pronunciations into caricatures! There is not a single name in the entire Shahnameh that this Helen Zimmern pronounced correctly in her translation. Again I am not sure if this translation is abridged or not, even with horrible distortion of names.

The Bam earthquake. Well, unspeakable things happened, or at least rumors say they happened, in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, all of them perfectly plausible.

[Surface]

Mr ICfreely,
For some reasons I am not getting any notifications for replies. Mr Apache says that he has the same problem. So I need to check back the posts for the replies. This is inconvenient but since I am not planning on staying here for too long, it wouldn't be a problem for the short term. I need to make up my mind quickly.
Oh and I prefer the appellation of Hakim instead of the common Agha which makes it look as if an adult is talking to a toddler.
I don't want to be mean, but the replies you give are too general and not very helpful.

The theories. You suggest that we need to examine theories and discard those which seem to be hoaxes. But the problem is that we should not have any "theories" just yet. A theory is assumed to be helpful in explaining a little bit of something. This compartmentalization is problematic. It provides a huge girth in which anyone can operate with a great deal of freedom. That is not what we need. We have theories made where we shouldn't have any. Assigning the brain power of people to the task of validating countless random theories in countless branches of sciences is not efficient. We need FACTS.

What is more, when a theory is discredited, like in this forum, we are left with a wide gap. This is only truly felt when we lose our fundamental theories. Suppose I reject the atom model, reject the evolution, reject the DNA itself, reject carbon dating, reject genetics, reject electron microscope images as hoaxes, just to mention a few that could very well be hoaxes. What are we left with? These are all built on top of each other to create a world view. That world view could ultimately very well be correct in itself, notwithstanding the falsity of these specific issues. A half fake map could lead to correct destination. We cannot logically reject the end, if the means to that end are false!
This makes the whole situation unbearably complex.
No, we have done nothing to lead to this situation. Someone or some group knows exactly how much of all of this are hoaxes, and how much truth. We are guessing about these but they know. If I don't buy these theories what else can I do? What else do I have to substitute for them? Actually I should say the same thing about "facts" not just theories. More often than not we are examining facts here not theories. Theories really do not even need to be based on facts. I can disregard the theories but what about facts? That is more important actually. Facts not the conclusions thereof.

About the mathematics of Iranians. What you are saying is not an explanation. I had to write a computer algorithm to recreate their architectural art. How could they do that with a stick? What was the "process" of that kind of approach in mathematics? Why is that totally lost, and who decided we should get rid of it? Even today engineering works with essentially that "stick"! I know enough of industrial design to know that nothing complex is ever used in the process today. Sure there are secrets involved in some critical stages but those are about very simple techniques that took decades to perfect with pure"trial and error"!

Anything that is ever built was built only with trial and error. Even in Wikipedia all the industrial processes I read about are said to be results of accidents. All our science theories are useless here, only pure facts gained from trial and error.
I do have some other very serious specific issues on mind that I am not going to mention in this forum. These points seem to be vehemently and very untypically rejected in Wikipedia, clearly proving their immense significance!

[ICfreely]

What is more, when a theory is discredited, like in this forum, we are left with a wide gap. This is only truly felt when we lose our fundamental theories. Suppose I reject the atom model, reject the evolution, reject the DNA itself, reject carbon dating, reject genetics, reject electron microscope images as hoaxes, just to mention a few that could very well be hoaxes. What are we left with?

A free mind (devoid of 'monkey mind' mentality)!

About the mathematics of Iranians. What you are saying is not an explanation.

I don't recall claiming to have explained 'the mathematics of Iranians.' Anyhow, I'm sorry that I can't give you a complex yet elegantly simple Theory of Everything that puts your mind at ease & helps you sleep better at night.

No, we have done nothing to lead to this situation. Someone or some group knows exactly how much of all of this are hoaxes, and how much truth.

You think?

[ICfreely]

I am not sure. In Iran they might simply be sold or lost. In Britain, our perps would probably use some high-tech instruments to alter the originals, probably to prove something imperial-themed, like that the land on which the Bam citadel is located actually belongs to St. John's College Oxford, or something.

Or they might be made up whole-cloth to suit the objectives of the perps.

[ICfreely]

Nasser David Khalili – British-Iranian ‘self-made’ billionaire and JPM.

Collection
Since 1970, Khalili has assembled, under the auspices of the Khalili Family Trust, eight of the world's finest and most comprehensive art collections: Islamic Art (700–2000), Hajj and the arts of pilgrimage (700–2000), Aramaic documents (535-324 BC),Japanese Art of the Meiji Period (1868–1912),Japanese Kimono (1700–2000),Swedish Textiles (1700–1900),Spanish Damascened Metalwork (1850–1900) and Enamels of the World (1700–2000). Together, the eight collections comprise some 25,000 works. Each of the eight collections is on its own merit the largest and most comprehensive in the world.[4] His Islamic art collection extends to 20,000 items and is the largest of its kind held privately in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_Khalili#Collections

Maimonides Interfaith Foundation
Khalili founded the charitable Maimonides Interfaith Foundation in 1995 to promote "understanding, cooperation and peace between Jews, Christians and Muslims internationally through art, culture and education".[13][14] The foundation created the Maimonides Interfaith Explorers, a free online educational resource for children aged 10 to 11.[15]
In 1983 Khalili commissioned a series of five paintings by the artist Ben Johnson called the House of Peace to promote "peace and harmony" between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.[16] The foundation also donated thousands of copies of Khalili's book The Timeline History of Islamic Art and Architecture (Vision of Splendour) to schools in the UK and Islamic countries.[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_Khalili#Maimonides_Interfaith_Foundation

UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador
In 2012, Khalili was honored by UNESCO as a Goodwill Ambassador for his work in the pursuit of peace, education and culture amongst nations. In his role as a Goodwill Ambassador, Khalili spreads the ideals of UNESCO through his position as a world-renowned scholar, collector and philanthropist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_Khalili#UNESCO_Goodwill_Ambassador

I'll elaborate on this scum bag later. For now, I'm just putting him on CF's radar.