NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.

Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Selene on October 6th, 2015, 2:24 am

Flat Earth & Dino Pseudohoax strategies. Nice try, creepy crooks, but any reader knows I'm not falling for either of them.

Still interesting to follow. Which other purpose than DBA could there be? Splitting up critical minds doesn't work with force. A concept the psychy punks still cannot comprehend...

And let that be our difference then.

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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on October 6th, 2015, 5:19 am

Selene wrote:Flat Earth & Dino Pseudohoax strategies. Nice try, creepy crooks, but any reader knows I'm not falling for either of them.

Still interesting to follow. Which other purpose than DBA could there be? Splitting up critical minds doesn't work with force. A concept the psychy punks still cannot comprehend...

And let that be our difference then.

Selene


Well, please do leave the dinosaur hoax discussion to that thread. It has more going for it than "Flat Earth".
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Selene on October 6th, 2015, 5:46 am

hoi.polloi wrote:
Selene wrote:Flat Earth & Dino Pseudohoax strategies. Nice try, creepy crooks, but any reader knows I'm not falling for either of them.

Still interesting to follow. Which other purpose than DBA could there be? Splitting up critical minds doesn't work with force. A concept the psychy punks still cannot comprehend...

And let that be our difference then.

Selene


Well, please do leave the dinosaur hoax discussion to that thread. It has more going for it than "Flat Earth".

Alright. B)

A Dino Hoax is to me just as strategic, non-existing and sneaking into the real truth seeking community as Flat Earth. And both too silly to maintain as the invalidity of them are proven so easily.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on October 6th, 2015, 5:57 am

Still waiting on that proof of a reliable "terrible lizard" dig site.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Starbucked on October 8th, 2015, 7:45 am

Does the flat earth theory matter? Do geocentrism and dinosaurs matter?

If we live in a geocentric universe, then "deep space missions" and "orbiting craft" like the ISS and satellites remain a plausible reality, at least to those that believe in these things.
The flat earth model, where the sun is around 3000 miles away does not allow for space travel or orbiting technology as they tell us, so it automatically exposes NASA, the other space programs and satellites as complete hoaxes. It renders so much science as complete nonsense as well. In that regards I think it is a subject worth looking into, despite what others may think.

Disclaimer - Not saying I fully endorse the theory, but there is almost as much compelling evidence for FE, as there is against it.

Flat Earth Joke - Where were you when you realized the earth is flat?
At an IHOP Restaurant, looking down at my breakfast. Thank you!
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on October 8th, 2015, 8:22 am

Starbucked wrote:Disclaimer - Not saying I fully endorse the theory, but there is almost as much compelling evidence for FE, as there is against it.

No, Starbucked.

But since you've typed that sentence here on Cluesforum, I will ask you to provide the one best compelling evidence for FE that stands out for you. Fair?

Just one - thanks!
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Starbucked on October 8th, 2015, 12:25 pm

There is no single proof of (FE) flat earth that I could point to that would convince a skeptic, or myself of FE. It's all just a theory at this point.
The best evidence I have seen so far are line of sight tests which show objects or land masses seen over water which should be hidden over the earth's curve, based on the formula for measuring the "curve" over a given distance on the globe. What I would like to see is an exact measurement of the horizon from 30,000 feet or above to determine if the horizon line really does come to "eye level" or if it is a few degree below that, based on spherical trig., as per these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mQl_oEoNk
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby brianv on October 8th, 2015, 5:17 pm

I tried reading this as a young adult, got about half way through. Wacky throws up some interesting names! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

edit: sorry, probably more suitable for the "chatbox".
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby simonshack on October 19th, 2015, 5:48 pm

*

Painterman posted this excellent comment over at the Clues Chronicle thread. I have decided to respond to it here on our NASA DBA thread:

Painterman wrote:It is curious that an ongoing propaganda drive targeting this very forum – a media campaign which the founder of this forum, Simon Shack, identified as "probably one of the biggest psyops of all time" – doesn't rate a mention on the list of topics for discussion.

This item, conspicuous by its absence, is of course the Flat Earth psyop, wherein the same PTB who brought us the moon landing hoax and the 9/11 hoax are now using the alternative media – thus moving to co-opt the means by which various independent research communities have so effectively exposed these and other hoaxes.

The state of the art in social engineering is playing catch-up with technological trends by diversifying from mass communication to infiltrate niche-market internet formats. By ignoring this development and keeping all attention on already-busted modes of manipulation (as relevant as they may still be), we give the bad guys an opportunity to roll out their updated techniques unscrutinized. Shall we diligently debunk mainstream media fakery yet go to sleep as the treacherous fakers of the astroturf "alternative" media wage a counteroffensive against the credibility and effectiveness of independent research?

If we fail to respond while the Flat Earth psyop – likely a prototype of the next generation of media psyops – unfolds and entrenches itself, we the self-declared exposers of media fakery will share the blame.

Is the shape of the Earth worth discussing? Perhaps, with low priority, if only to debunk the nonsense we're confronting. On the other hand, is it worth taking some time, in this podcast or elsewhere, to address the Flat Earth psyop being perpetrated against us by the fake alternative media? Ab-so-lute-ly, for the stated reasons. Debating whether or not the Earth is round isn't the point, as it wasn't the point a year ago or a century ago. The psyop is the point.


Thanks, Painterman - your comment comes as a breath of fresh air to me in these 'trying', flatulent times...

Sadly, if we had to coldly / lucidly assess NASA's Flat Earth Psyop, we must admit it has been, so far, a roaring success - what with swarms of 'free-thinkers-cum-truthseelkers' falling for it like flies in a DDT chamber. If, as you say, it manages to entrench itself and somehow 'fulfill' its obvious DBA / dumbing-down agenda, we the self-declared exposers of media fakery will share the blame. For now, I have personally done the little I can to raise awareness of it - in what, alas, has felt like a near-solitary effort, what with the poor cohesion among seemingly like-minded intellects within the media fakery micro-community. I have recently indulged in some brief 'rants' on the subject over at fakeologist.com - but I realize how futile such efforts are - and how I could easily 'exhaust myself' by keeping at it. It hasn't helped that my closest collaborator and 'friend in arms' (Hoi) has adopted a less-than-forthright stance towards the massive FE Psyop - even suggesting there might be some 'serious' aspects to the Flat Earth theory / Concave Earth theory, etc - or advocating a "we-will-never-know / let's keep-an-open-mind" mindset. On the other hand, I believe Hoi has - for the moment - intentionally left out the FE Psyop from the Clues Chronicle podcast programming, since I have oft expressed my wish to "stay out of the FE thing" altogether - so as to avoid any association with it.

At this point however, seeing how the FE Psyop has 'hijacked' the entire NASA=SHAM discourse (with countless phony websites and videos associating FE believers with NASA disbelievers), there cannot be any further reasonable doubt that its primary objective always was to discredit the sizeable body of research performed at Cluesforum in these last few years, thoroughly exposing NASA (and the worldwide Space Hoax Industry) for the 'stellar' fraud that it is. To my knowledge, no other website / forum / research community has picked apart the NASA SHAM as methodically & exhaustively as we have done at CF. Now, as small as we are, we have nonetheless reached a few million readers over the years - which I figure is reason enough for NASA's damage-control department to DO something about it - rather than sit on their fat asses, hoping we would just go away. Our efforts are, of course, currently swamped by their aggressive, 'unlimited-budget' infiltration-op among our 'ranks' ( i.e. independent researchers) and, yes, we ought to DO something about it. The question is: what can we do? All ideas are warmly welcome.



Just an example of what's going on - in the FE Psyop sphere : http://fakeologist.com/2015/10/04/potat ... /#comments
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby hoi.polloi on October 19th, 2015, 9:03 pm

Guys, Kham has some sharp words for exactly what you are talking about with the 'Flat Earth' DBA in the latest Clues Chronicle. Check it out. Synchronicity strikes again, in the best way!

She has also agreed to be my co-host, so we should be no stranger to good critical thinking on the podcast in the future. :wub:

Enjoy!

http://septclues.com/theclueschronicle/ ... nuke-hoax/
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 19th, 2015, 10:43 pm

Simon,

I have to admit that this flat earth business did not worry me so much in the beginning. But it is painfully obvious now what a massive and effective psy-op it has become. As you well know, the fear of being ostracized is extremely powerful in our society. People will go out of their way to be ignorant if it means being accepted by their peers.

Every week I introduce probably 1-3 people to media fakery. My tactics vary, depending on the person. In a one on one setting (where I choose the person, the time, the place, and the subject matter) I am quite convincing. I can nearly see them snap from the TV programming that they have been under for their whole lives. But such success is partly due to my own credibility with that person. They already know I am not crazy, even if I do have a reputation for being unconventional.

My suspicion (although I have no way of knowing) is that most people wake up as a result of curiosity and further research. Perhaps they may get curious because a friend or family member sends them a YouTube video or an article. But these people are in for a world of cognitive dissonance because some of the first things they encounter during research are Alex Jones and Flat Earthers. People at this stage have NO CLUE about disinformation, controlled opposition, or shills. So they either get 1. scared to death (InfoWars), 2. shamed into giving up asking questions (by shills), or 3. too afraid of being associated with the FE people. At worst the FE may cause a new researcher to question his own sanity.

I have seen the FE material come up with exponentially increasing frequency of late, and I have to wonder how long it will be before I have friends or family calling me to ask about it. Come to think of it, one can hardly search for NASA videos on YouTube without getting alien or hollow/flat earth videos. This is a NASTY psyop in my opinion and we should take it seriously as it threatens to confuse the researcher (best case scenario), undermine legitimate researchers, and deter others from asking questions.

From my vantage point (with respect to others here who would disagree with this approach), the FE nonsense should be treated the same way that shills and trolls are. IF something is properly diagnosed as a psy-op, disinformation tactic, or just plain infiltration and disruption, then it should be treated accordingly. Playing footsy with this one is just begging for trouble in my opinion. The perpetrators of such a vile plan would just LOVE to say, "hey look! a bunch of flat earthers over at cluesforum!". Now I understand that taking ridicule is all part of the experience. But credibility matters.

I really do think that people are starting to wake up, which is the good news. That would of course explain WHY the psy-ops are getting more pervasive and seemingly coordinated. To me that just means extra vigilance on our part.

On a real practical level I am going to look carefully at the channels I subscribe to on YouTube and make sure there isn't any FE material on there which could hurt my own credibility. There are so many channels that have solid amounts of truth mixed with tiny crushed up poison pills. I think some of these people are genuinely mistaken, and others are something far worse. For those in the former category I may just send them a private message. Those in the latter category should not be entertained.

The challenge is to figure out which category a source belongs in. For example, I recently listened to this YouTube radio interview (below) with Hoi and David Weiss on the Media Fakery channel. Afterwards I read through the comments section and was disappointed to see Peekay22 there criticizing Hoi in the harshest of terms. I subscribe to Peekay22's channel and really like his videos, so I am genuinely interested in whether his problem was more with the substance or the style of the interview.

As a defense lawyer I actually though Hoi's questions were relevant, appropriate, and even polite. To me the questions would not have been very hard if he had been telling the truth. It was clear to me that Mr. Weiss was just upset because he couldn't go on there and lie without being challenged.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQlVXCbS_VY

I say all this to point out what a difficult job it is to manage and filter the information we take in. We must all have a screening process or we will be bogged down by whatever psy-ops get thrown our way.

Finally I have to admit my own selfish reason for having a strong opinion about the treatment of FE here at Cluesforum (in case it isn't obvious). I refer a lot of people here, and not all of them are close friends and/or family. Sometimes I even send clients or other inquiring people here to research topics that they have questions about. There are some things here that can be hard enough to take in (at first anyway) as it is. So, as my dad might say, we need FE around here like we need a shotgun blast to the face.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Painterman on October 20th, 2015, 12:15 am

Thanks, Simon.

In my estimation, your understanding of the true nature of the Flat Earth psyop is in the same class of importance as your no-planes discoveries which so advanced the 9/11 investigation by bringing the central role of the mainstream media into view. The 9/11 psyop was 2001. Now it's 2015 and the alternative media's turn to do some heavy lifting in shaping public opinion. Hence the Flat Earth psyop.

The historic significance of the Flat Earth psyop is that it represents the transition in the methods of public relations made necessary by media consumers' change in preference from formats of mass communication, i.e. the boob tube, to personalized and interactive content delivered via internet.

NASA's Flat Earth psyop to discredit the debunkers of space fakery appears to be part of a broader operation that intends no less than re-engineering the entire social infrastructure of alternative media-based independent research. We would expect Cluesforum to be a principal target in the early days of such an operation, due to this forum's independence and accomplishments.

You wrote: "I have recently indulged in some brief 'rants' on the subject over at fakeologist.com - but I realize how futile such efforts are - and how I could easily 'exhaust myself' by keeping at it."

To the contrary, your efforts are having an effect. A public relations spokesman will never publicly admit, "Okay, you convinced me. The product I've been hired to represent actually sucks." So one has to look elsewhere for feedback, though I won't go into that here. Realistically, where this particular product, the flat Earth, is concerned, the default assumption is that anyone intelligent enough to coherently advocate for it (possibly while pretending to be merely "exploring" the notion by watching YouTube videos for months into years without reaching a conclusion) already knows it's ridiculous nonsense.

You wrote: "The question is: what can we do?"

I'd say the first job is to expand the concept of media fakery to include the alternative media. This is key. It's also a test for who is working for the bad guys. An agent will put on a great show, be the most ardent debunker of media fakery in the room, sing all the songs and lead the parade - except, when the conversation turns to media fakery by the alternative media, the agent will go strangely silent and then either quietly slither away until the coast is clear or deftly move the conversation in a different direction as soon as possible. This is because the agent is actually part of the same infiltration op as the alternative media fakers already under suspicion.

Within this "alternative media fakery" conceptual framework, one can explain the nature and intent of the Flat Earth psyop in terms the audience understands: namely to neutralize the alternative media as an instrument of independent research and re-purpose it as a partner of the mainstream media in perpetrating fakery.

We're making progress, though this type of understanding does take a certain amount of time. Fortunately we have Cluesforum as a place to work things out. Meanwhile, by no means get depressed by the apparently unstoppable assault on your work. This propaganda campaign is beatable. The bad guys are losing their touch and getting sloppy, as even 9/11 already showed.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby edgewaters on October 20th, 2015, 3:30 am

Flat Earth is no transition in alternative media. How can anyone say that after Judy Wood and Alex Jones and everything else? Show me a time when alternative media wasn't infiltrated.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Critical Mass on October 20th, 2015, 3:34 am

Painterman wrote:I'd say the first job is to expand the concept of media fakery to include the alternative media.

It is an excellent idea... we already have the Truthers & shills subforum but perhaps some brave soul among us should spend some time listening to Alex Jones, Mark Glenn, Michael Rivero etc & blowing apart their sources, 'experts' & 'guests' for the neutral readers.

I recall only last year listening to one radio podcast & hearing TWO 'callers' turn out to be suspicious (one had her unnamed husband supposedly killed during '9/11', the other was drenched in blood & apparently hit by falling torsos on that fateful day :rolleyes:).

There's probably all sorts of media fakery gold to be discovered by the poor buggar who volunteers to listen to those creeps.
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Re: NASA'S FLAT EARTH DBA STRATEGY

Postby Painterman on October 20th, 2015, 4:41 am

edgewaters wrote:Flat Earth is no transition in alternative media. How can anyone say that after Judy Wood and Alex Jones and everything else? Show me a time when alternative media wasn't infiltrated.


What's transitional about the Flat Earth psyop is not that it's an infiltration. The alternative media has always been infiltrated. Alex Jones established his niche and grew in market share, but he co-exists with outlets like this one with only the occasional mention to ridicule this type of content. The Flat Earth, on the other hand, is a hostile takeover. It's not just looking for market share, it's trying to change the nature of the alternative media itself, mostly by poisoning the well with intentionally goofy subjects that 1) wreck our brand equity for potential new recruits to this information and 2) severely reduce our effectiveness by sending us down dead-end streets of pointless research. Once the real alternative media is all but destroyed from this treatment, the established pattern says they intend to bum-rush the territory with unlimited funds, rebuild a Disney and McDonald's version of what we had, and call the result which they own the "new" alternative media.
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