RedBull SpaceDive

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.
fbenario
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by fbenario »

reichstag fireman wrote:
DeeJay wrote:
simonshack wrote:*
Just another candidate for an Oscar of "stupidest bullcrap of all times". :angry:

http://video.repubblica.it/sport/l-impr ... ef=HRER3-1
...it looked real to me...
Do you want to buy a bridge?!

I've never see such a pathetic hoax. Where do you even begin to unravel this imbecilic specimen of video fraud?
Perhaps the best method is simply to look at how to fake it. Childs' play, to put it blunty.
90% of the fuzzy "freefall" footage could be simulated with an oval piece of paper danced on a piece of cotton, and with the camera badly out of focus.
It really was pure crud! Are you serious DeeJay, or is there something wrong with your eyesight/cognitive functions?
And it don't hurt if da viewer be smokin' big fat blunt at the time. Sorry, guys, for the ludicrous language, but this psyop no longer deserves serious attention.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAE6Il6OTcs
fbenario
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by fbenario »

reichstag fireman wrote:edit: corectted tpyos
I trust that was purposeful?
rick55
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

fbenario wrote: And it don't hurt if da viewer be smokin' big fat blunt at the time. Sorry, guys, for the ludicrous language, but this psyop no longer deserves serious attention.
Sure it does. It's a cake walk. Why not use it as a case study for students of Simon's here? Surely there are degrees of difficulty involved in these hoaxes-- and the easy ones, like this, should be retained as beginners' cases. Funny ones, like Balloon Boy a few years ago, are even more exemplary in this regard. Difficult ones like the RFK assasination hoax are not for beginners for reasons of history, plausibility and intricate political machinations. If we're going to make progress here, we ought to rank the various cases for eventual organized presentation.

Another reason I like particular media manipulation cases like this are that they are great "teaching moments". A lot can be learned about the various levels of atmosphere and pressure, and in this case in particular, the speed of sound. This is a teaching moment, as all the hoaxes are.

Wouldn't you agree with me now? Why or why not? Others please chime in-- let's have a roll call here to see who's watching this thread-- the event having been highlighted by Brian Williams on NBC tonight. Simon are you here? What's your view on this? Am I not making sense?

Update Tues. Morning. On whether this deserves attention.
I think the Felix SpaceJump is an easy one to deconstruct and prove as an illusion. It's in this epistemological mindset where I find value... rather than in simply realizing it's an illusion ourselves. The Mars lander continues to be difficult to prove since the paramaters are unfamiliar to us and the location is distant. However in this case, actors, equipment and location are more accessible with more amateur history. This is a serious philosophical issue since the world's politics and economics seem to turn on illusion these days. Proving illusions is done all the time in court rooms.

I looked at Mary Poppins this morning and wondered how you would prove, as a child, that Mary Poppin's umbrella could not have willfully transported her around at will. Surely a rediculous example but instructive in terms of attitude. Further, it's instructive in terms of photographic and film illusion of the day, in the early 1960's. After all, it was the illusion that sold the movie which was one of the biggest movie hits of all time. See these pics...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/71040/me ... RY+POPPINS

Magicians used to be all the rage. We enjoyed the illusions. Perhaps we ought to view today's media illusions as grand magic tricks. Simon's revelation of 9/11 as an illusion is, in a sense, a magic trick-- with awful consequences in politics but a magic trick nonetheless, with paid actors and CGI planes. I'm struggling to come to terms with an attitude that does more than point to the illusions and joke about them as is often done here-- and use our awareness to construct a viable epistemology of illusion along with a citizen's guide to seeing the trick-- and eventually tricking the tricksters into self-exposure. In essense, I wonder how we can get serious about all of this... and force the transformation of media and others back into truth. There should be a simple formula... a simple set of tactics... a certain set of questions. It should be like snapping our fingers and suddenly we're ALL awake.
Last edited by rick55 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
reichstag fireman
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by reichstag fireman »

fbenario wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote:edit: corectted tpyos
I trust that was purposeful?
Dunno about purposeful, but certainly on purpose, to put it blunty (although that wasn't) :lol:
'Nam video watched, but how does it knit into the balloon jump hoax?
lux
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by lux »

Aside from all the technical factors, just looking at this from the standpoint of a publicity stunt concept, this event is just too “out there” to be believed.

The idea that a multi-billion euro international corporation would risk its worldwide PR image on a highly dangerous stunt which could easily result in its hero being splattered all over the New Mexico desert is just ridiculously implausible. What Board of Directors would be crazy enough to green light such a thing?

What if it had been a real stunt and Felix had died? It would not have been pretty. What effect would this have had on the corporation? It would likely have been devastating, of course.

How could anyone actually believe that such a huge company would take such a risk? And, on live television to boot!

It's downright depressing that so many people believe this kind of obvious publicity horseshit.

edit: fixed typo
Last edited by lux on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rick55
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

lux wrote:Aside from all the technical factors, just looking at this from the standpoint of a publicity stunt concept, this event is just too “out there” to be believed.

The idea that a multi-billion euro international corporation would risk its worldwide PR image on a highly dangerous stunt which could easily result in its hero being splattered all over the New Mexico desert is just ridiculously implausible. What Board of Directors would be crazy enough to green light such a thing?

What if it had been a real stunt and Fritz had died? It would not have been pretty. What effect would this have had on the corporation? It would likely have been devastating, of course.

How could anyone actually believe that such a huge company would take such a risk? And, on live television to boot!

It's downright depressing that so many people believe this kind of obvious publicity horseshit.
The point about risk to the reputation of a corporation works both ways. If this is a hoax, then there is equal risk of losing reputation by exposure of the hoax.
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by simonshack »

rick55 wrote: The point about risk to the reputation of a corporation works both ways. If this is a hoax, then there is equal risk of losing reputation by exposure of the hoax.
Well - NASA has showed that this is not the case, rick55. Welcome to planet Earth. Did you just land last night? <_<
Libero
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Libero »

:D Aww, Simon... Do you mean that we can't all bombard ABC with our cry of foul and have them get one of their roving reporters on it right away?

Here's one that one of my local news affiliates tried to pass off as 'News' the other day regarding a big gust in Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MkniHG ... re=related

It appears that if they can't keep inventing hoaxes, there would be very little programming of interest to watch.
reichstag fireman
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by reichstag fireman »

rick55 wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote:
rick55 wrote:I have some rough notes on this event that I took yesterday that youall might find interesting.... and I had a redbull today to try it. Here are my notes.
RickPotvin.com: Simon Shack
http://www.network54.com/Forum/71040/me ... -+probably
..maybe you can post your notes here, too?
Not possible to post my notes here as you'll see when you get there.
Thank you, rick55. Intriguing. What you've created is essentially a mirror of this forum.
You are duplicating all(?) of our messages here, albeit as "notes" with your name on them, plus some added 'value' of your own.
Maybe your forum will serve as a reserve archive? Is that the plan? Otherwise what is its purpose?
rick55
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

reichstag fireman wrote: Thank you, rick55. Intriguing. What you've created is essentially a mirror of this forum.
You are duplicating all(?) of our messages here, albeit as "notes" with your name on them, plus some added 'value' of your own.
Maybe your forum will serve as a reserve archive? Is that the plan? Otherwise what is its purpose?
I deny that mis-accusation! How can you say that? There are a couple of posts that quote work done here and link to this forum but most of my material is original! Added value? That's not fair. You leave me no choice now to but to post entire REAMS of my ORIGINAL points to HERE... to prove to readers here that I am not a plagerist as you've accused me of-- astonishingly!!! I would expect that after you re-consider what you just said that you would revoke that. Tsk tsk tsk fireman. That's incredible.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/71040/me ... -+probably
SKYDIVE FAKE-- probably View Thread - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
felix baumgartner - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Capsule looks very heavy... requiring this crane to lift it.. yet balloon took it to 100K? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
felix baumgartner hoax GLP - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
pics - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
front tooth gap = neanderthal - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
more on gapped front teeth - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
red bull energy drink dissolves teeth... try that for a boundary condition - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
why the capsule? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Jackie Voss -- 30? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
front tooth gap = neanderthal - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
similar looking girl with Allstate - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
similar looking girl with herbal co. - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
new facebook page with nothing on it - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
no results for jackie voss-konderia - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
konderia is a nation state? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
konderia does not exist - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
reidel communications? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
riedel - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
media co... - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
ask reidel a question - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Reidel prominantly displayed on capsule.. not an aeronautics co but communications - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
HG wells story... or was it jules verne ? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Baumgartner refers to "bullshit story!!!" - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Interview after "space jump" - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Where are the congratulatory crowds? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
cam broadcasting from 120,000 feet? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
odd echo effect of technician... sounds like someones room - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
38 km (130,000 ft) called the edge of space - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
shuttle goes 300 miles... 482 km.... - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Where are the two cams? Who is mission control? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Why does Felix not have a mic? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
felix, disconnect the oxygen. ..... Hose..... Attaboy ???? !! ?? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
capsule looks "jiggly"...shaking... - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
start the cameras?--- weren't the cams already on... he jumps with no countdown? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Mission control is at roswell???? 2:45 - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
729 km per hr then a few seconds later..."there's the chute!" - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
the tear wiping girl at 3:25 - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Deceleration from 750 mph to landing in about 10 s. - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
felix homepage - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
red bull conference pic - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
He balloons are reall... draw attn to them - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
they claim this is a real pic? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
the 9/11 falling man tarot card again - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
the balloon is real - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
He was supposed to be able to talk on his way down - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Seinfeld would have asked Elaine where to go out on Fridau - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
based on Apollo????? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
duplicated Dolgov 1962??? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
red bull horns - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
cam setup - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Kittinger...(Ettinger? jew?) - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Simon Shack - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
taurine - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
dark gray (lined) background - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
baloons don't go 30 km, 100,000 feet - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Impossible for he balloon to go to 120K ft - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
hoi palloi uses m/s but supersonic release of parachute not possible - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
30,000 meters *120,000 feet... baloon with 1000 KG payload? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Heiwa - how to slow down? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Branson claims he crossed Pacific in a hot air balloon - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Best rendition - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
ipad falls from edge of space - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
cdn lego man flies to edge of space - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
he balloon take toy shuttle to 115,000 ft - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Beer in space - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Gray background explanation - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Motive? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Red bull is just a drink... but they have all this? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Red bull has 'taurine'... a sulphuric acid... - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Chaleo - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Red bull around since 1987... might have tried it a few times... no effect.. 5 hr energy - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
Beer + RedBull... interesting. - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Posted this thread to Shack - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Call for roll call and teaching moments. - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
WIRED -- why didn't felix freefall for 5 min? - Rick55 on Oct 15, 2012
What are the implications of the legality of lying? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
STARS - visibility - Why are stars not visible in Felix Jump? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Why are stars not visible from space? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Hubble telescope - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Earth below Felix was bright - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Felix wasn't in space, if he was he would have floated away (humor) - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
New theory - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Understanding photography - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
He wasn't in space and it was day - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
video physics - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
BRIAN WILLIAMS NBC report tonight... showed TUMBLING MAN... as in Tarot card. and 9/11 vic - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
90 yr old original soundspeed breaker Yeager does it again??? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
..on this date? ...was this planned in advance to give Felix cred? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
WEATHER BALLOONS - how high do they go? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
CNN report on weather balloon attempt - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Infitels - Scott - expert on amateur rockets and parachutes - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Scott. how about balloons to test chemtrails? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
More amateur balloon projects - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Historical review of weather balloons with cameras... - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
ENGADGET.com -- review - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
ENGADGET.com -- review - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
ATMOSPHERE DIAGRAM - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
MARY POPPINS - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
CHEVROLET getting in on the act with falling car?? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Fallling man Tarot card image agin... with falling car.. is this all ILLUMINATI garbage??? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Also is this a MaryPoppins Illusion... ? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Last words before jump "I'm going over now?" - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
Low voice... "eject"... in low audio... (illuminati symbolism?) - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
3:13... garbled... away... - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
why can't we see the entire video... why just the synopsis? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
SPACESUIT - he's proving the next generation spacesuit??? 0:54 - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
RedBull STRATOS... ? - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012
RED BULL STRATOS... hoax... search - Rick55 on Oct 16, 2012

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SKYDIVE FAKE-- probablyOctober 15 2012 at 3:59 AM Rick55
from IP address 98.165.90.231
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fel ... 38284.html

Visitors from Simon's forum... feel free to respond to any of the chaotic mess of posts below. I'm attempting to brainstorm here... no login needed...

Video compiliation... watch first...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHtvDA0W ... qW1sLE1ywh#!








This message has been edited by recreation from IP address 98.165.90.231 on Oct 16, 2012 8:16 PM
This message has been edited by recreation from IP address 98.165.90.231 on Oct 16, 2012 8:06 PM



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Rick55

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felix baumgartner October 15 2012, 4:02 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fel ... 38284.html

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Rick55

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Capsule looks very heavy... requiring this crane to lift it.. yet balloon took it to 100K? October 16 2012, 7:27 PM



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Rick55

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felix baumgartner hoax GLP October 15 2012, 4:05 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=f ... =off&gbv=2

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 016926/pg1

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Rick55

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pics October 15 2012, 4:06 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=f ... CAcQ_AUoAQ

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front tooth gap = neanderthal October 15 2012, 4:07 AM



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Rick55

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more on gapped front teeth October 16 2012, 6:41 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Neandertha ... als-5.html














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Rick55

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red bull energy drink dissolves teeth... try that for a boundary condition October 15 2012, 4:10 AM

http://www.redbullstratos.com/the-team/ ... umgartner/

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Rick55

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why the capsule? October 15 2012, 4:11 AM

http://www.redbullstratos.com/gallery/a ... /capsule/1

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Rick55

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Jackie Voss -- 30? October 16 2012, 6:48 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=j ... 2&tbm=isch

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Rick55

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front tooth gap = neanderthal October 16 2012, 6:49 AM



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Rick55

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similar looking girl with Allstate October 16 2012, 6:50 AM



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Rick55

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similar looking girl with herbal co. October 16 2012, 6:51 AM



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Rick55

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new facebook page with nothing on it October 16 2012, 6:51 AM

http://www.facebook.com/jackie.vosskonderla

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Rick55

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no results for jackie voss-konderia October 16 2012, 6:53 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=% ... =off&gbv=2

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Rick55

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konderia is a nation state? October 16 2012, 6:54 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=k ... CAYQ_AUoAA

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Rick55

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konderia does not exist October 16 2012, 6:55 AM

http://liberal.www.nationstates.net/nation=konderia

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Rick55

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reidel communications? October 16 2012, 7:01 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=% ... =off&gbv=2

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Rick55

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riedel October 16 2012, 7:02 AM

http://www.riedel.net/

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Rick55

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media co... October 16 2012, 7:04 AM

http://www.riedel.net/en-us/company/rie ... outus.aspx

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ask reidel a question October 16 2012, 7:05 AM

http://www.riedelcommunications.com/contact-us/

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Rick55

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Reidel prominantly displayed on capsule.. not an aeronautics co but communications October 16 2012, 7:29 PM

http://alt.engadget.com/

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=h ... rt=20&sa=N



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Rick55

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HG wells story... or was it jules verne ? October 15 2012, 4:11 AM

http://www.redbullstratos.com/gallery/? ... =media1814

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Rick55

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Baumgartner refers to "bullshit story!!!" October 15 2012, 4:13 AM

http://felix-baumgartner.blogspot.com/

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Interview after "space jump" October 15 2012, 4:36 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMiWmCuLpbo

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Where are the congratulatory crowds? October 15 2012, 4:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMiWmCuLpbo

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cam broadcasting from 120,000 feet? October 15 2012, 4:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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Rick55

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odd echo effect of technician... sounds like someones room October 15 2012, 4:39 AM

.

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38 km (130,000 ft) called the edge of space October 15 2012, 4:40 AM



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shuttle goes 300 miles... 482 km.... October 15 2012, 4:41 AM

..

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Where are the two cams? Who is mission control? October 15 2012, 4:42 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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Rick55

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Why does Felix not have a mic? October 15 2012, 4:43 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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felix, disconnect the oxygen. ..... Hose..... Attaboy ???? !! ?? October 15 2012, 4:43 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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Rick55

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capsule looks "jiggly"...shaking... October 15 2012, 4:44 AM

>

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Rick55

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start the cameras?--- weren't the cams already on... he jumps with no countdown? October 15 2012, 4:47 AM

?

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Mission control is at roswell???? 2:45 October 15 2012, 4:48 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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Rick55

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729 km per hr then a few seconds later..."there's the chute!" October 15 2012, 4:49 AM

2:43

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the tear wiping girl at 3:25 October 15 2012, 4:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVaC0ch ... el&list=UL

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Deceleration from 750 mph to landing in about 10 s. October 15 2012, 4:51 AM

4:02

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felix homepage October 15 2012, 4:53 AM

http://www2.felixbaumgartner.com/index.php?id=12

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red bull conference pic October 15 2012, 4:55 AM



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rtner.html





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Rick55

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He balloons are reall... draw attn to them October 15 2012, 4:56 AM



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they claim this is a real pic? October 15 2012, 4:57 AM



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Rick55

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the 9/11 falling man tarot card again October 15 2012, 4:58 AM



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the balloon is real October 15 2012, 4:58 AM



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Rick55

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He was supposed to be able to talk on his way down October 15 2012, 4:59 AM

The suits 12lb chest pack contains monitoring and tracking equipment together with a voice transmitter so he can talk to mission control on the way down. The pack is connected to a device on his wrist that allows him to monitor his speed and altitude.

Read more:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z29Jwogtvk
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Rick55

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Seinfeld would have asked Elaine where to go out on Fridau October 15 2012, 4:59 AM

.

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Rick55

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based on Apollo????? October 15 2012, 5:00 AM

It was designed by some of the scientists who created the U.S. stealth bomber and is based on the famous Nasa Apollo rocket, but with a few key design differences.

Read more:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z29Jx4RsBb
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Rick55

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duplicated Dolgov 1962??? October 15 2012, 5:01 AM

The exit hatch is bigger for a start, designed to prevent the sort of catastrophe that befell Soviet high-altitude sky diver Pyotr Dolgov in 1962. Struggling to leave his capsule in his cumbersome spacesuit, Dolgov cracked his visor slightly on the door.

Read more:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z29JxCbWYV
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Rick55

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red bull horns October 15 2012, 5:02 AM



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cam setup October 15 2012, 5:03 AM



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Kittinger...(Ettinger? jew?) October 15 2012, 5:04 AM

.

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Simon Shack October 15 2012, 5:06 AM

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... l#p2376728

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taurine October 15 2012, 5:07 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

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dark gray (lined) background October 15 2012, 5:10 AM

5) What was the cause of the dark-grey background on a brilliant day?

I AM looking forward to the footage from the cameras attached to his suit! This would be a real head-spinner and the main reason I tuned in!

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... l#p2376728

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Rick55

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baloons don't go 30 km, 100,000 feet October 15 2012, 5:11 AM

For those of us with only ten fingers: 100,000 feet = 30,480 metres = 30½ kilometres.

No hot air balloon has ever reached anywhere near that height.. (except in the Guinness Book of Fairytales)
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... t=red+bull

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Rick55

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Impossible for he balloon to go to 120K ft October 15 2012, 5:17 AM


At 100 000 or 120 000 feet (30 000 - 36 000 m) altitude the atmospheric pressure is almost 0 Pa, i.e. there is almost vacuum, so a helium ballon will not be effective. A helium ballon needs air to ascend into and fly in. If there is no air around it, the ballon will not fly.
Thus - it is physically impossible to use a ballon to ascend to 120 000 feet.


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Rick55

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hoi palloi uses m/s but supersonic release of parachute not possible October 15 2012, 5:18 AM

And if you jump out at say 33 000 m altitude and drop 30 000 m free fall during say 80-90 seconds or longer in the air getting denser, your final speed at 3 000 m altitude may then be 500-600 m/s, i.e. more than speed of sound and you wonder how a parachute may stop it. Or Felix in his pressure suit is going to do acrobatic flying and try to slow down that way?

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Rick55

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30,000 meters *120,000 feet... baloon with 1000 KG payload? October 15 2012, 7:35 PM

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space
by Heiwa on October 15th, 2012, 8:29 am

But lux ... no helium balloon can fly at 39 000 m altitude in almost vacuum and carry 1000+ kg of capsule & Felix with another ballon filming, etc. It was a nice stunt, though.

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Rick55

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Heiwa - how to slow down? October 15 2012, 5:21 AM

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space
by Heiwa on October 10th, 2012, 8:23 pm

So this clown Felix Baumgartner intends to jump from 36 000 m, altitude where air pressure is only 0.15 hPa against 1 000 hPa at ground level, i.e. there is no air there. How a helium balloon can fly where there is no air to fly in is a mystery, to say the least (as already explained above).

Anyway, Felix jumps and after 35 seconds at around 31 000 m altitude his vertical velocity is that of sound, say 340 m/s, and increasing and it would appear that Felix may hit ground at say 540 m/s vertical velocity (increased air density may slow him down a little) say 70 seconds later.

It doesnt look good. To say the least.

Asking Felix why he intends to do such a crazy thing, Felix has hinted he knows how to brake in air so it will take him 330 seconds to get down where he can release his parachute at very slow speed, 20 m/s at a fair distance over ground.

How Felix is going to slow down the drop of himself in air remains another mystery.

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Rick55

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Branson claims he crossed Pacific in a hot air balloon October 15 2012, 5:22 AM


Take a guess!

Small clue for you. There's a common theme: both are contentious World Record holders..

"Sir" Richard Branson claimed in 1991 to have defied science, the first and only man to ever cross the Pacific in a hot air balloon.

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Rick55

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Best rendition October 15 2012, 5:26 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA7Ke_sx ... r_embedded

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Rick55

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ipad falls from edge of space October 15 2012, 5:28 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOJV2tWd ... re=related

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Rick55

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cdn lego man flies to edge of space October 15 2012, 5:29 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVhiFU41 ... ure=relmfu

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Rick55

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he balloon take toy shuttle to 115,000 ft October 15 2012, 5:30 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soHTGvP9 ... ure=relmfu

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Rick55

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Beer in space October 15 2012, 5:31 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_00eZtsu ... re=related

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Gray background explanation October 15 2012, 7:34 PM


i watched this whole thing on austrian television. their explanation:

the picture was "greyed-out" during freefall because they used infrared cameras with live GPS tracking in order to chase him at such high speedhttp://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23& ... l#p2376728

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Rick55

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Motive? October 15 2012, 7:37 PM

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space
by omaxsteve on October 15th, 2012, 6:47 am

Amazing how they could capture amazingly sharp Hi def video for every inch of the ascent, yet on the way down they show what looksliek an incandescent light bulb on a string.

I think I am now programmed to spot the fakery. I suppose that those who are not yet exposed to the depths of fakery shown on their tv screens could watch that and believe it was "real".

Not even a strong effort at trying to make it look real, in my opinon.

Can't quite figure out the motive, though, I guess coming so close to the other private company going to the ISS now Red Bull pulls this stunt, it all goes to make NASAs bull sh!t look believable? If private companies can manage "space" missions with limited resources there's no limit to what NASA can do.



Regards,

SteveO

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Rick55

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Red bull is just a drink... but they have all this? October 15 2012, 7:37 PM

http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/ ... rm=red+bul

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Rick55

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Red bull has 'taurine'... a sulphuric acid... October 15 2012, 7:57 PM

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_the_pr ... r_red_bull

Dietrich Mateschitz owns 49% and Chaleo Yoovidhya owns 5

http://www.jigsaw.com/id36656/1/red_bul ... tory.xhtml


https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull

Red Bull is an energy drink sold by Austrian company Red Bull GmbH, created in 1987. In terms of market share, Red Bull is the most popular energy drink in the world, with 4.5 billion cans sold each

Red Bull has been the target of criticism concerning the possible health risks associated with the drink.[8] A study by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) concluded that in the levels used in popular energy drinks, like Red Bull, taurine and glucuronolactone are safe.[9]


Chaleo Yoovidhya, the self-made Thai billionaire founded T.C. Pharmaceuticals. In the 1970s, it was first introduced in Thailand under brand called Krating Daeng, or Red Bull in English. It was popular among Thai truck drivers and laborers.


http://www.jigsaw.com/id36656/1/red_bul ... tory.xhtml






Did The President Need A Sip Of Romney's Red Bull? : NPR
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/.../did-the- ... s-red-bull
Oct 4, 2012 ... Tens of millions of Americans tuned in to watch Wednesday night's presidential debate, which focused on domestic policy. Polls indicate that a ...

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=D ... CAcQ_AUoAQ












Dietrich Mateschitz
http://www.sportingchampions.co.uk/f1_f ... naider.htm - Cached
1969) is a Russian-born Canadian Jewish businessman and billionaire. He is director of the Midland Group. Alex Shnaider bought Jordan Grand Prix from ..

10 Weird Ways to Become Insanely Rich | Celebrity Net Worth
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articl ... nely-rich/ - Cached
Aug 20, 2012 ... In the mid 1980s Austrian Dietrich Mateschitz bought the rights to a little known .... His first job was hanging out at Jewish cemeteries where he ...


Red Bull founder dies Chaleo Yoovidhya, Thai billionaire and ...
article.wn.com/.../Red_Bull_founder_dies_Chaleo_Yoovidhya_Thai_ billionaire_and_/
Mar 19, 2012 ... Dietrich Mateschitz was inspired by an already existing drink called Krating ..... Toulouse Shooting: Gunman Kills 4 Outside Jewish School ...







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Rick55

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Chaleo October 15 2012, 7:58 PM

http://www.google.com/search?q=Chaleo_Y ... CAcQ_AUoAQ

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Red bull around since 1987... might have tried it a few times... no effect.. 5 hr energy October 15 2012, 8:04 PM

.

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Beer + RedBull... interesting. October 16 2012, 6:05 AM

doing it now

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Rick55

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Posted this thread to Shack October 16 2012, 6:13 AM

...fireman responds..reishtag fire attributed to hitler... but was it really done by him?

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Call for roll call and teaching moments. October 16 2012, 8:24 AM
fbenario wrote:
And it don't hurt if da viewer be smokin' big fat blunt at the time. Sorry, guys, for the ludicrous language, but this psyop no longer deserves serious attention.


Sure it does. It's a cake walk. Why not use it as a case study for students of Simon's here? Surely there are degrees of difficulty involved in these hoaxes-- and the easy ones, like this, should be retained as beginners' cases. Funny ones, like Balloon Boy a few years ago, are even more exemplary in this regard. Difficult ones like the RFK assasination hoax are not for beginners for reasons of history, plausibility and intricate political machinations. If we're going to make progress here, we ought to rank the various cases for eventual organized presentation.

Another reason I like particular media manipulation cases like this are that they are great "teaching moments". A lot can be learned about the various levels of atmosphere and pressure, and in this case in particular, the speed of sound. This is a teaching moment, as all the hoaxes are.

Wouldn't you agree with me now? Why or why not? Others please chime in-- let's have a roll call here to see who's watching this thread-- the event having been highlighted by Brian Williams on NBC tonight. Simon are you here? What's your view on this? Am I not making sense?


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Rick55

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WIRED -- why didn't felix freefall for 5 min? October 15 2012, 8:05 PM

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/dotphysics/

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Rick55

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What are the implications of the legality of lying? October 16 2012, 4:05 AM

?

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Rick55

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STARS - visibility - Why are stars not visible in Felix Jump? October 16 2012, 4:08 AM

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 017794/pg1

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Rick55

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Why are stars not visible from space? October 16 2012, 4:14 AM

Re: Why are stars not visible in space?
Guys check what Meshran Keshe is saying. The stars are really visible only from within the atmosphere. Even from the Moon they are invisible. You will have to get used to the new theory of the atom, Earth, Sun, Solar System and so on. The light is the plasma and it is created when magnetic pole of one body touches the magnetic body of the other.
That's why during the day we can see the light, when Sun's atmosphere (magnetic pole) touches Earth's. The same about the stars during the night. Above the atmosphere there is nothing what can create the light.
It's completely different than we were tought in schools.

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Rick55

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Hubble telescope October 16 2012, 4:15 AM

Re: Why are stars not visible in space?
That's why they put the Hubble telescope in space ?

Duuuuhhhhh...

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Rick55

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Earth below Felix was bright October 16 2012, 4:18 AM

Re: Why are stars not visible in space?
I have no idea how I wound up at this site, but after reading all these posts, I had to register just so I could tell you all how STUPID YOU ARE!! Yes, I am a troll! I can't help myself! You're all idiots and I, being a smart person, MUST POINT THIS OUT!! Have you ever tried to look at the stars while in the middle of a large, brilliantly lit city? How many stars do you see? Not many! How many do you see when you're in the middle of the country where it's dark? LOTS!! SAME PRINCIPLE HERE!! The earth below Felix and the cameras was very bright, thus drowning out the star light. Same reason you don't see many stars in the moon landing pics. The sun was in the sky! GET IT?? STOP TRYING TO MAKE EVERYTHING A CONSPIRACY YOU FREAKS!http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 017794/pg2

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Rick55

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Felix wasn't in space, if he was he would have floated away (humor) October 16 2012, 4:19 AM

felix wasn't in space...if he was , he would have floated away.

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Rick55

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New theory October 16 2012, 4:20 AM

IN THE SPACE BETWEEN ATMOSPHERES ,THE PLACE WE WRONGLY BELIEVE IS AN EMPTY VACUUM ,THE WAVELENGTHS OF ELECTRO MAGNETIC FREQUENCIES OF LIGHT IS SPREAD OUT SO AS NOT TO BE VERY VISIBLE BUT THE CLOSER TO THE PLANETARY ATMOSPHERE IT COMPRESS'S IN THE ATOMS OF THE INERT FORMS OF MATTER,MAKING IT VISIBLE.THE STARS SHOULD BECOME LESS VISIBLE THE FARTHER AWAY FROM THE CORE OF THE PLANET.

[link to abundanthope.net]


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Rick55

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Understanding photography October 16 2012, 4:21 AM

You really just have to understand how photography works to understand capturing light. The whole scene is properly exposed to capture the immediate area of importance. Stars were not important.

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Rick55

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He wasn't in space and it was day October 16 2012, 4:23 AM

Re: Why are stars not visible in space?
Because he wasn't IN space, only half way there.
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10/15/2012 07:05 PM
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Re: Why are stars not visible in space?
Oh, and stars are generally visible in space, much more so considering there is no atmosphere to block'em out. + the dive was done during the day, not nighttime.

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Rick55

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video physics October 16 2012, 4:24 AM

As a television professional I can tell you this. Your eye can see much more contrast than even the best HD cameras made. When a camera exposure or iris is set to properly illuminate and highlight a given subject, the contrast prevents the lighter or more fine particles to get "squashed." G

Go outside at night and shoot the streetlight and see if you can still see the stars in your video... for that matter any planes or other lights. The camera cannot expose for both.

The camera was set to properly illuminate the jumper and the capsule he climbed out of. The reflection of the capsule as well as the light on the earth alone will prevent the camera from "seeing" any stars at the same time.

Simple video physics.

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Rick55

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BRIAN WILLIAMS NBC report tonight... showed TUMBLING MAN... as in Tarot card. and 9/11 vic October 16 2012, 6:05 AM

amazing.

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Rick55

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90 yr old original soundspeed breaker Yeager does it again??? October 16 2012, 7:08 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

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Rick55

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..on this date? ...was this planned in advance to give Felix cred? October 16 2012, 7:08 AM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

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Rick55

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WEATHER BALLOONS - how high do they go? October 16 2012, 7:13 PM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

HobbySpace - Near Space
http://www.hobbyspace.com/NearSpace/index.html - Cached - Similar
Weather balloons routinely go to 27km (~90k ft). Scientific balloons go to 42 km ( 137k ft or 26mi) and remain at high altitudes for several days. ... High altitude cameras can see for several hundred miles farther than with aerial photography and ...

How high do weather balloons go? | Answerbag
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2129030 - Cached
According to the National Weather Service, weather balloons achieve altitudes of 115,000 feet. Weather balloons are released twice a day from 69 ...

http://www.thefintels.com/aer/hab.htm

There's one big problem with flying a balloon to high altitudes, generally speaking you want to get the payload back. As anyone who's flown a rocket to any altitude can tell you, it isn't always the easiest thing in the world to find your rocket after it's landed. Even with dual deployment a rocket flying to 10,000' can drift a mile from the launch site. Now consider trying to find something that travels maybe 50 or 100 miles from the launch site, then comes down from 80,000 to 100,000'!

http://www.thefintels.com/aer/rocketindex.htm



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CNN report on weather balloon attempt October 16 2012, 7:21 PM

http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06 ... ent-wrong/

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Infitels - Scott - expert on amateur rockets and parachutes October 16 2012, 7:17 PM

Hi-

I found your site looking at weather balloons. I'm looking at those because I think the latest parachute/balloon jump by RedBull Felix was fake. With your experience, you might point us to proof of fakery.

Here are my rough notes
RickPotvin.com: SKYDIVE FAKE-- probably

The main problem I see with the jump is that the apollo type capsule was too heavy a payload to go to 100,000 feet + which is what he was claiming. Other minor problems include where did the capsule land? How far downwind was he? ...etc. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

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Scott. how about balloons to test chemtrails? October 16 2012, 7:18 PM

?

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More amateur balloon projects October 16 2012, 7:20 PM

http://projectcirrus.wordpress.com/how-it-all-works/

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Rick55

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Historical review of weather balloons with cameras... October 16 2012, 7:24 PM

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/high-alti ... oon-videos

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ENGADGET.com -- review October 16 2012, 7:37 PM

They say this is Felix in flight... looks fake

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/05/leap ... -the-edge/

BASED ON AN EARLIER MILITARY HOAX... (ironic that ROSWELL is home of the UFO HOAX)
As you can imagine, leaping out of a capsule 23 miles above Roswell, N.M., isn't a project you cook up in a week or two. It was 2005 when Baumgartner started planning the idea with Red Bull. The core goal of the mission, dubbed "Stratos," is to break a 52-year-old record set by former US Air Force command pilot Joe Kittinger. That record? A 19-mile skydive, aka Project Excelsior, a military initiative to design a parachute system that would allow pilots to survive high-altitude ejection. One part of which involved Kittinger jumping from a capsule 102,800 feet above the planet. Since the Stratos project's inception seven years ago, Kittinger himself has become part of the team, whose primary role will be mission control's radio contact with Baumgartner during his ascent.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/05/leap ... -the-edge/




Why was the heavy metal capsule needed fro Felix and yet Joe kittinger did it with this leather balloon gondola. Also Felix needs an Apollo nasa type space suit yet Joe did it with a motorcycle helmet and heavy clothing, winter gloves?


Company space suit -- the first ever for a non-government space program. Likewise, the original record height was reached using a 3-million-cubic-foot helium balloon, while Stratos is using one 10 times the capacity, a whopping 30 million cubic feet.

>>>How much did the HE cost.. why not use H?









>>>what are all the switches for?




>>>kittinger spun 120X/min... 2X/s
No one knows this more than Kittinger, who found out at great cost when his stabilizing parachute deployed too early during one of his test jumps, getting tangled around his neck and causing him to spin his way down at an estimated rate of 120 times a minute, unconscious, only to be saved by the automatic deployment of his main parachute.





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Rick55

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ENGADGET.com -- review October 16 2012, 7:37 PM

They say this is Felix in flight... looks fake

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/05/leap ... -the-edge/

BASED ON AN EARLIER MILITARY HOAX... (ironic that ROSWELL is home of the UFO HOAX)
As you can imagine, leaping out of a capsule 23 miles above Roswell, N.M., isn't a project you cook up in a week or two. It was 2005 when Baumgartner started planning the idea with Red Bull. The core goal of the mission, dubbed "Stratos," is to break a 52-year-old record set by former US Air Force command pilot Joe Kittinger. That record? A 19-mile skydive, aka Project Excelsior, a military initiative to design a parachute system that would allow pilots to survive high-altitude ejection. One part of which involved Kittinger jumping from a capsule 102,800 feet above the planet. Since the Stratos project's inception seven years ago, Kittinger himself has become part of the team, whose primary role will be mission control's radio contact with Baumgartner during his ascent.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/05/leap ... -the-edge/




Why was the heavy metal capsule needed fro Felix and yet Joe kittinger did it with this leather balloon gondola. Also Felix needs an Apollo nasa type space suit yet Joe did it with a motorcycle helmet and heavy clothing, winter gloves?


Company space suit -- the first ever for a non-government space program. Likewise, the original record height was reached using a 3-million-cubic-foot helium balloon, while Stratos is using one 10 times the capacity, a whopping 30 million cubic feet.

>>>How much did the HE cost.. why not use H?









>>>what are all the switches for?




>>>kittinger spun 120X/min... 2X/s
No one knows this more than Kittinger, who found out at great cost when his stabilizing parachute deployed too early during one of his test jumps, getting tangled around his neck and causing him to spin his way down at an estimated rate of 120 times a minute, unconscious, only to be saved by the automatic deployment of his main parachute.

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ATMOSPHERE DIAGRAM October 16 2012, 7:39 PM



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MARY POPPINS October 16 2012, 7:48 PM



https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=m ... 2&tbm=isch




















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CHEVROLET getting in on the act with falling car?? October 16 2012, 8:20 PM

http://letsdothis.com/skydive?cmp=OLA_B ... 9_46395944

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Rick55

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Fallling man Tarot card image agin... with falling car.. is this all ILLUMINATI garbage??? October 16 2012, 8:22 PM

.

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Also is this a MaryPoppins Illusion... ? October 16 2012, 8:23 PM

?

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Last words before jump "I'm going over now?" October 16 2012, 8:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoHArAz ... el&list=UL

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Low voice... "eject"... in low audio... (illuminati symbolism?) October 16 2012, 8:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoHArAz ... el&list=UL

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3:13... garbled... away... October 16 2012, 8:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoHArAz ... el&list=UL

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why can't we see the entire video... why just the synopsis? October 16 2012, 8:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoHArAz ... el&list=UL

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SPACESUIT - he's proving the next generation spacesuit??? 0:54 October 16 2012, 8:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_SzUnkY ... ature=plcp

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RedBull STRATOS... ? October 16 2012, 8:39 PM

?

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RED BULL STRATOS... hoax... search October 16 2012, 8:40 PM

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl= ... arch&gbv=2

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LightCone
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:07 am

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by LightCone »

rick55 wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote: Thank you, rick55. Intriguing. What you've created is essentially a mirror of this forum.
You are duplicating all(?) of our messages here, albeit as "notes" with your name on them, plus some added 'value' of your own.
Maybe your forum will serve as a reserve archive? Is that the plan? Otherwise what is its purpose?
I deny that mis-accusation! How can you say that...
Its purpose is about as coherent as it is incomprehensible. :wacko:
rick55
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:15 pm

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

simonshack wrote:
rick55 wrote: The point about risk to the reputation of a corporation works both ways. If this is a hoax, then there is equal risk of losing reputation by exposure of the hoax.
Well - NASA has showed that this is not the case, rick55. Welcome to planet Earth. Did you just land last night? <_<
I've been considering that Felix's hoax might be easier to expose than a NASA hoax since all the working parts are closer to home. Certainly certain illusions should be easier to prove as illusions than others. I think there must be a methodical approach by now, to detection of media illusions. For example, Reidel is displayed prominantly on the capsule. It is a media company-- not an aeronautics company.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/71040/me ... unications
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com ... apsule.jpg

All the video of the event seems processed and over-produced with schlocky music soundtracks. There doesn't seem to be any RAW video or cell phone video of the event. So right there, one method of detecting a media hoax-- a principle if you will- would be the involvement of expert media companies being up front, with over-produced media and no raw footage.

It just seems to me this SHOULD be an "easier exercise" than RFK, 9/11 or Curiosity... shouldn't it? Wouldn't you think that some illusions are easier than others to expose?
rick55
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:15 pm

Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

LightCone wrote:
rick55 wrote:
reichstag fireman wrote: Thank you, rick55. Intriguing. What you've created is essentially a mirror of this forum.
You are duplicating all(?) of our messages here, albeit as "notes" with your name on them, plus some added 'value' of your own.
Maybe your forum will serve as a reserve archive? Is that the plan? Otherwise what is its purpose?
I deny that mis-accusation! How can you say that...
Its purpose is about as coherent as it is incomprehensible. :wacko:

It's "raw"... not incomprehensible. And it's purpose was to gather a lot of links related to this event for further review in the process of detecting and exposing elements related to the hoax. If you buy yourself a can of Red Bull, and go through it carefully, you'll find it's a gold mine of "raw websurf data" related to the event, including info on the president of RedBull and the original owners. You too are being unfair. In a few weeks, I'll have some of that raw data distilled into more manageable *(coherent) points for you. I might have mistakenly assumed you'all here are comfortable with big raw data feeds. Maybe not. My mistake.
lux
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by lux »

rick55 wrote:
It just seems to me this SHOULD be an "easier exercise" than RFK, 9/11 or Curiosity... shouldn't it? Wouldn't you think that some illusions are easier than others to expose?
The hoaxes you mentioned and lots more have already been exposed. Waking the public up to them is another matter.

Most people wouldn't know a proof from a dog biscuit. All they'll listen to is their TV set.
fbenario
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by fbenario »

rick55 wrote:In essense, I wonder how we can get serious about all of this
That was uncalled for.

Please be assured that at least 6 of us, including the four admins, Brian, and I, are deadly serious about the forum. You can't help but have noticed the immediate evisceration of bad actors, once identified.

We take time every single day to keep the forum moving forward for a number of reasons, including so that it leaves a legitimate historical record to teach future generations. We all hope fewer dead civilian bodies are left strewn across the planet.
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