RedBull SpaceDive

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.
Libero
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Libero »

Unless it had a super cloaking device or I just can't spot it, it looks like a big yellow truck is missing from the side views of the 'live launch' shots. (keep your eye on the white big rig for reference)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... ecord.html



:04 in
Image

:12 in
Image

:33 in ( I have no idea what that 'bubble is above the tail end of the yellow truck. On 2nd thought... this is taking place in Roswell... hahaha :D )
Image

:44 in
Image


In Rusty's much clearer photo, the yellow truck is still 'messy' at best. Looks like they may have the yellows and blues going the wrong way too (contrast to ':33 in' photo or video and what appears to be blue tarp in road laying in direction of approaching crane.)
rusty wrote:Ahh...maybe that one:

Image

In the picture showing a balloon of ~35m height, the rest of the balloon is probably not yet inflated, lying on the ground, thin like a rope.
Last edited by Libero on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
fbenario
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by fbenario »

cluedup wrote:I see in this thread that Baumgartner's achievement was immediately being refuted, followed by a round of serious anomaly hunting to fit the theory that the jump was faked. Would it not make more sense to look at all the evidence objectively and arrive at a conclusion at the end?
Your question's substance, implying you think the psyop might be real, has now been conclusively answered, especially by the various lux posts herein.

Don't ever again accuse us of bias. Nice bad-faith accusation. How old are you? Do you understand basic rules of courtesy and etiquette?

EDIT: One day later to correct typo.
Last edited by fbenario on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
fbenario
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by fbenario »

simonshack wrote:Thaumatography = "a dissertation on the wonders of nature".[/i]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thaumatography
Awesome word, Simon! I love it.
rick55
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

fbenario wrote:
cluedup wrote:I see in this thread that Baumgartner's achievement was immediately being refuted, followed by a round of serious anomaly hunting to fit the theory that the jump was faked. Would it not make more sense to look at all the evidence objectively and arrive at a conclusion at the end?
Your question's substance, implying you think the psyop might be real, has now been conclusively answered, especially by the various lux posts herein.

Don't ever again accuse of of bias. Nice bad-faith accusation. How old are you? Do you understand basic rules of courtesy and etiquette?
Hey Benario... I have to say that your own manners offend my best sensibilities here and previously. The situation has NOT been conclusively answered by Lux. And if it were, you OUGHT to offer the poster the link to ... or a repost of the summary. I'm quite astonished that Simon is allowing to parade yourself in this manner. Tsk tsk. Call me. Rick 602 371 0094. Let's talk. Seriously.
Heiwa
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Heiwa »

I thought we had already concluded that the Felix stunt is a fake because the balloon could never reach 39 000 m altitude and lack of air (buoyant medium) there. :rolleyes: Also the mission control room with twenty people sitting behind computer screens à la NASA/JPL doing nothing is a typical fake. :lol: And the crying mother flown in from Austria. :o
The mystery is why somebody spends money and effort to produce the nonsense. Of course there are plenty of crazy people with PhDs and similar in the New Mexico desert doing anything for money but where does the money come from? :ph34r:
hoi.polloi
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

cluedup, rick55 and fbenario, please stop speaking to members and each other condescendingly.

Let's try not to be condescending to one another.

I understand fbenario's frustration and I side with the skeptics. After all, cluedup doesn't make a very good case for believing the media, which I feel I don't really have as much right to trust after they've betrayed us in such astounding ways, but maybe fbenario's response didn't make this point to cluedup.

Peace, please. Peace.

Heiwa has made it pretty clear that a balloon cannot physically climb as high as it is alleged ... but maybe that should be the discussion.

In any case, I'm not sure why anyone is trying to temper doubt in the media or the space program at this point.
Libero
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Libero »

Heiwa wrote:I thought we had already concluded that the Felix stunt is a fake because the balloon could never reach 39 000 m altitude and lack of air (buoyant medium) there. :rolleyes: Also the mission control room with twenty people sitting behind computer screens à la NASA/JPL doing nothing is a typical fake. :lol: And the crying mother flown in from Austria. :o
The mystery is why somebody spends money and effort to produce the nonsense. Of course there are plenty of crazy people with PhDs and similar in the New Mexico desert doing anything for money but where does the money come from? :ph34r:

Heiwa,

Let's let the media give you the answer to your last question.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... spend.html
hoi.polloi
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

In response to your assessment of the situation:
I see in this thread that Baumgartner's achievement was immediately being refuted, followed by a round of serious anomaly hunting to fit the theory that the jump was faked.
The jump is most likely faked because some numbers told us it is not likely for someone to climb that high in space (about 30 km) without a lot of problems.

Anomaly hunting should be a prerequisite for anything released having to do with the space program, given it has taken decades for us to uncover all the lies in the space program. To walk blindly into a minefield after people have already been blown up there is foolhardy at best.

Would it not make more sense to look at all the evidence objectively and arrive at a conclusion at the end?
Looking at the evidence is precisely what searching for anomalies is. Searching for, or finding, anomalies is completely in tune with attempting objectivity. Objectivity, by the way, is arguably impossible. So no - it doesn't make sense to look with objectivity - only suggest it is a goal.

Since no "conclusion" should be reached until there is an "end" and since no "end" should be reached in knowledge, there will probably be no conclusions and no ends. There will only be opinions, probably.

Let us have the opinion that the space program is worth doubting. Let us use these hoaxes as a tool to discover what is or is not possible.
Libero
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Libero »

Rick55,

Forgive me for asking, but is there something in the pictures that I posted along with the video that you can see for yourself (top of this page) that I am not seeing correctly?
lux
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by lux »

rick55 wrote: We have NOT concluded the event is fake.
That is true since "we" would include you and you have evidently not concluded that it is fake. However, I think most everyone else who has posted on this thread believes it was fake and has stated why they think that.

BTW, I could have sworn you bid farewell to this forum in this post where you said ...
rick55 wrote: I'm outta here. No hard feelings. We just don't do things the same way.


You didn't elaborate on the way you do things versus the way you believe that we do things so I'm not sure what you meant by that comment but this thread contains a number of reasons that WE think the Red Bull event was fake ... so why don't you cut to the chase and give us your reasons for thinking the event really happened as represented?

Or, at least tell us, specifically, where and how you believe we have gone wrong in our observations and conclusions.
lux
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by lux »

Oh, and please do not post the embarrassingly stupid and trite retort that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" because that particular logical turd is, at this moment, floating squarely in Red Bull's punch bowl, not ours.
rick55
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by rick55 »

Libero wrote:Rick55,

Forgive me for asking, but is there something in the pictures that I posted along with the video that you can see for yourself (top of this page) that I am not seeing correctly?
I examined your linked video and I'm still trying to understand what you mean. I think you mean that the yellow crane truck somehow disappears... and that I agree with. It's big and I can't see it.

Additionally, in the video, just as the capsule is released, there is a video discontinuity... a switch of cameras... or an edit... and sudden jump of the capsule about 20 feet away from the crane.
Libero
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Libero »

rick55 wrote:
Libero wrote:Rick55,

Forgive me for asking, but is there something in the pictures that I posted along with the video that you can see for yourself (top of this page) that I am not seeing correctly?
I examined your linked video and I'm still trying to understand what you mean. I think you mean that the yellow crane truck somehow disappears... and that I agree with. It's big and I can't see it.

Additionally, in the video, just as the capsule is released, there is a video discontinuity... a switch of cameras... or an edit... and sudden jump of the capsule about 20 feet away from the crane.


No.. sorry, perhaps my bad for not explaining properly. In the :33 in picture you should see a yellow flatbed big rig behind the white big rig that the crane is driving towards (toward the left in the photo), that also for some reason has a floating bubble next to and above its aft. I cannot see this truck in any of the distant side views of this production, including the better quality photo that another member produced. I do see, however in that particular photo a color splotch that appears to be backwards from the ":33 in" photo that in no way resembles a truck (behind the white big rig). As I look at the driver's section of the crane and the drivers section of the white truck, I would personally expect to see a drivers section at least somewhat proportional to any of them but in yellow, somewhere behind the white big rig. I personally don't see it.

I do see the cut on the video that you are referring to, however. I also noted on the video that at the first point that they show the supposed elevation of the capsule, it appears to be a measurement at ground elevation + distance traveled (if even that.... otherwise, they are in big trouble. ) Of course, I checked wickedpedia for the elevation measurements of Roswell, so I am not certain if those measurements are completely accurate.
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by Heiwa »

Assuming the Red Bull capsule has mass 1 000 kg (incl. 100 kg Felix) and, thus, a force of 9 820 N acting on it downwards due to gravity, that force is evidently initially carried by the crane and transmitted to ground prior lift off. Then the balloon takes over and applies its buoyancy force on the balloon. The balloon force, pulling upwards, is apparently of the order 10 000 N, i.e. there is an excess force of 180 N that pulls the balloon + capsule up at a speed of about 4 m/s. The air resistance force at 4 m/s upwards speed is evidently -180 N and there is equilibrium, when the capsule + balloon fly away. It is simple statics.

It was good that there was an excess lift force, because, if not, the capsule would have remained hanging in the crane.

Evidently, the excess lift force must be maintained at >10 000 N during the complete ascent to 39 000 m altitude because, if not, the balloon will evidently descend again or remain at constant level in between. When the balloon ascends, I assume external temperature drops and the balloon shrinks unless you can fill up with more (compressed?) helium brought along in a suitable cylinder in the capsule. Was it done? Otherwise the balloon will never rise … into vacuum space.

As external pressure is 68 000 times lower at 39 000 m altitude than at ground level the balloon will expand while rising and this must also have some sort of influence on the balloon buoyancy capacity. Can somebody clarify?

When 100 kg Felix jumps out, the excess lifting force increases, and the balloon should accelerate upwards.
tak47
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Re: LIVE NOW - man leaps from edge of space

Unread post by tak47 »

Heiwa wrote:I thought we had already concluded that the Felix stunt is a fake because the balloon could never reach 39 000 m altitude and lack of air (buoyant medium) there. :rolleyes: Also the mission control room with twenty people sitting behind computer screens à la NASA/JPL doing nothing is a typical fake. :lol: And the crying mother flown in from Austria. :o
The mystery is why somebody spends money and effort to produce the nonsense. Of course there are plenty of crazy people with PhDs and similar in the New Mexico desert doing anything for money but where does the money come from? :ph34r:
well, in central european timezone (GMT+1) his jump coincidentally(!) took place on sunday at television prime-time. (after rescheduling it due to surprisingly unexpected(!) gust of wind during the first attempt.. nice advertising btw)

it was a incredibly huge media event. several german-speaking tv-stations broadcasted the whole day about this crap. it also became the most-viewed live-stream of all times.
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