RedBull SpaceDive

[omaxsteve]

For the record, I too believe that this topic should remain open and further study is warranted for the good of the forum:

Here's my reasoning:

The forum which started by exposing the media fakery behind 9-11 has always been in my opinion the only serious site where this (media fakery) is discussed openly. In fact, it is what sets this site apart from all the other so called 9-11 "truth sites"

The red bull event was largely a media event , and one that has drawn a ton of interest worldwide. If, as Simon , points out, (and I fully agree) the whole thins was a huge fraud, it was not really the jump itself that was the fraud, it was the fact that it was broadcast "live". For example had this event occurred , and it was simply reported on the newspapers that Felix had broken the record it would have been a fraud mostly related to the jump itself. By broadcasting what was an obviously phony event , live on television, red bull opened themselves to public exposure, and more importantly has given SImon and the rest of us the opportunity to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the media fakery is a rampant and regular occurence.

I have come across many , many , people who refuse to even contemplate the possibility that 9-11 was a media faked event, even more so that refuse to even consider that astronauts never walked on the moon. In some ways there unwillingness to even investigate the possibility that these events were faked is understandable as it would shake the very score of their beliefs in government as "good".

This case (red bull ) is unique. No one got injured or killed, so nobody will say that investigating it is disrespectful to the victims. I also don't think that anyone would be terribly upset if they discovered that Red Bull was nothing other than a greedy commercial enterprise that would have no problem stooping to the level of faking an event to further their own publicity.

Finally for Simon and this forum to take on NASA, the moon missions, the mars rover , 9-11 , go on record that basically ALL the victims of 9-11 were simulated entities, yet close this thread for the sole reason of not wanting to give RedBull additional publicity makes very little sense to me. Why is it okay to give publicity to the NASA fraudsters, and the 9-11 perpetrators, but not the Red Bull (shit) artists?

I believe that if Simon and the others here take this RedBull hoax on with all of our collective resources going to prove the fraud, it will benefit ALL of the other research here immensely. In baseball terms this should be somewhat of a "a hanging curve ball". There will far less resistance for people to accept the "truth" once it is properly presented. It will also be a large opportunity for all of us to profit. (by short selling red bull stocks once the fraud becomes public knowledge.)

Finally, (oops this is my second "final" paragraph) from my perspective if we CANNOT expose this RedBull for the hoax that it was to the extent that the huge majority of the public knows for a fact that it was faked media event, there is absolutely no chance that the acceptance and understanding that 9-11 was a media faked event will ever be accepted by the "main stream" public.

Regards,

Steve O.

[omaxsteve]

Here's something I just discovered.

In this picture of the recovered POD the lettering "zenith" is not the same as in either of theother two POD stills form the videos I embedded in the original ( now locked) post:





nor does it match the Zenith lettering found here:



or here:


or here:



When I have more time I will go and look for other POD photos. It seems pretty certain that the POD that went up is NOT the same POD as was recovered. I am curious as to how many different PODs there are.

In my opinion this is pretty damning "undebunkable"evidence.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Steve O.


http://randommization.com/wp-content/up ... sphere.jpg

[rick55]

Here's something I just discovered.

In this picture of the recovered POD the lettering "zenith" is not the same as in either of theother two POD stills form the videos I embedded in the original ( now locked) post:





nor does it match the Zenith lettering found here:



or here:


or here:



When I have more time I will go and look for other POD photos. It seems pretty certain that the POD that went up is NOT the same POD as was recovered. I am curious as to how many different PODs there are.

In my opinion this is pretty damning "undebunkable"evidence.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Steve O.


http://randommization.com/wp-content/up ... sphere.jpg

Of the 4 photos you posted above, 1 and 2 seem to match ZENITH beside the hatch at the same level, don't they? In photo 3, ZENITH is missing. And in 4, ZENITH is located further around the capsule and below a panel joint. So I can see how 1 and 2 differ from 3 and from 4, and how 3 differs from 4. There appear to be 3 different capsules. But 1 and 2 could be the same no?

Undebunkable? Aren't WE doing the debunking? THEY would be doing an anti-debunking so what you mean is that the different PODS as evidenced by different positions for ZENITH is un-anti-debunkable, right, or more grammatically correct... NON-anti-debunkable. They promote. We debunk. They might attempt to anti-debunk. We show how our debunking is NON-anti-debunkable. And this is precisely what we want-- a case where we have solid non-anti-debunkability. *NAD.

There IS a theory put forth by Apollo moon landing hoax debunker David Percy that clues were intentionally left in the hoax video and photos so that others could discover the anomalies later. Here is a sample of David percy's work if you haven't seen it before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dejJmkYrynE

In the case of the RedBull SpaceDive, and in pariticular, the POD, could it be possible that renegade inside traitors to this hoax intentionally made sure that the ZENITH label was put in different positions so as to leave clues to us here at SeptemberClues? Could inside traitors to the 9/11 hoax have done the same in that case? How likely is it that the ZENITH label can be in different locations or missing as a result of oversight? Should the production of a hoax have the equivalent of proofreaders? How would ZENITH-moving get by like this?

Another aspect I've been chewing on is the absence of cellphone video. Everyone carries these smartphones with cameras these days-- and you would think that some techs on the ground would capture raw footage a few minutes at a time (memory capacity of the smartphone) of different aspects of the event. But I haven't seen ANY raw cellphone footage of any aspect of it. This means that the media in and around this event are very very tightly controlled. And that is consistent with an intention to be sure that only the footage they want to be released is released. Looser contraints on raw cellphone video would be more consistent with the ability to cross reference different accounts from different smartphones, which would expose any manipulation or would confirm the event as more real than could be hoaxed.

Here's a longer cellphone recording of a computer broadcast that has some odd features where Felix seems non responsive to the grown control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6OQkFHdSbI

At 7:20 the chute comes out but the camera doesn't lose him... despite the fact that it should upon that faster decleration. When the chute comes out, he and the chute look like a white blob,

[omaxsteve]

You could be right about pods 1 and 2. I thought that the panel line between the "z" and the "e" was missing.

Great points about the lack of cell phone imagery, Even of the balloon. You would think that the size of the balloon at 20 miles altitude a huge number of amateur astrologists would have caught a glimpse. Didn't we have on this very forum someone claiming to have photographed the ISS? I would think that you wouldn't require a whole lot of expensive equipment to photograph the fully inflated balloon.

How large a perimeter was sealed off for this event?. Where was the "live" crowd and their photos?. Sorry lots of questions, no answers..... yet.

Good points about the debunking versus anti debunking. I will have to re-read it later when I have more time.

To administrators and Simon: I do not want to be disrespectful in any way to either Simon or the forum in general. I am a huge fan, almost a "devotee" of the research found here. I have found lately and it is just my opinion, that the site has become less focused on research and more about personal bickering and "vetting" of new posters.

If given an indication that this research and discussion is not welcome on this forum> I will cease to post in this thread. I don;t quite understand what a "locked" thread means. There have been many threads that were hijacked and railroaded and went on and on for pages and pages yet were never locked. What is different about this subject? As far as I am concerned , it is much more interesting than many other threads found here. More importantly it is a perfect fit for media fakery. The invention of aids, the global oil infrastructure, etc, are interesting topics but have nothing to do with media fakery and (also my own opinion) take away from the overall impact of the research found here.

regards ,

Steve O.

[rick55]

You could be right about pods 1 and 2. I thought that the panel line between the "z" and the "e" was missing.

ZENITH PANEL ANOMALIES
Yeah, you're right. The panel line IS missing! ha. So all 4 photos are differentiated. In terms of video/photo digital fakery, you have to wonder why they use different capsules or miss these tiny details. It occurred to me that an inside anti-hoax agent might plant these clues for those of us to discover on purpose. The word ZENITH is in itself interesting as a clue since it is defined as the highest point in a sphere above an observer. In other words, it requires the highest "heads up"... a type of "alert" as when you yell "heads up!" to someone who isn't watching where he's going.

THREAD LOCK TEST?
Given the popularity of this topic-- as admitted by Simon himself-- I wonder if Simon pretended that the thread was finished to sort of "test his students" here in a way. He originally set the pace but we cannot rely on the originator to decode all future hoaxes. This forum is a classroom, Simon is the professor. We're all students. If a professor of physics in college walked out of the lab in the middle of a critical experiment, would he watch from a hidden camera which students would take over and lead the rest of the students through to the end of the experiment? It reminds me of the children's nursery rhyme: Simon says "Do this!" and in this case Simon says-- look at the photos and video and deconstruct them... prove them fakes.

FAKERY IN GENERAL
Fakery has been going on throughout history. We have to have our wits about us. We have to communicate. We have to use reason. We must... expose every fake event for the sake of mankind's future. Consider the fake CO2 global warming hoax and the fake numbers that were exposed awhile ago. There's a spiritual aspect to this mission of exposing fakery and lies I think. I can't believe that Simon's closing of the thread was meant as his final word. It had to be a test. If you want to expand your horizons in exposing fakery, see big-lies.org. They do a good job too.


NUCLEAR BOMBS and ENERGY
Lately, I've come to realize that nuclear bombs don't exist. Nuclear energy is merely a front for overnight power burn off. see big-lies.org

ILLUSION PRISON
To the degree we are being hoodwinked is the degree to which we are in a prison camp of the mind. The iron bars of the jail cell are the disinformation we're being fed. Thank God they allow us prisoners to have some beer. Email me at [email protected] or phone me at 602 371 0094 just in case this thread is shut down, erased or attacked in someway. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. We need to respect our heads. Our heads are good. Long live our heads. Heads UP!!! (Zenith code).

[Haze]

Here's something I just discovered.

In this picture of the recovered POD the lettering "zenith" is not the same as in either of theother two POD stills form the videos I embedded in the original ( now locked) post:





nor does it match the Zenith lettering found here:



or here:


or here:



When I have more time I will go and look for other POD photos. It seems pretty certain that the POD that went up is NOT the same POD as was recovered. I am curious as to how many different PODs there are.

In my opinion this is pretty damning "undebunkable"evidence.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Steve O.


http://randommization.com/wp-content/up ... sphere.jpg

Pictures 1 and 2 are from the real jump !

The two others with an other " ZENITH " are from the Test jump in march.
Look :
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TCO2IdoTA

[rick55]

I've emailed CargoLifter Balloon Crane Systems asking for technical help in proving the hoax.
http://www.cargolifter-operations.com/

I linked this forum to a particularly technically great description of the Redbull event and posted a comment there as follows.

Your comment is awaiting moderation.Some of us are skeptical that this jump actually occurred. It shows signs of being a media fake. Here is the forum where we’re discussing that.
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... =red+bullA major problem to begin with is that the atmosphere at 120.000 feet is a near vacuum. It seems to some of us that the 3,000 pound capsule and 3,000 pound parachute… 6,000 lbs in all… or 3 tons… of matter would not possibly have the lift or bouancy from the helium in a vaccum. I’ve written to several sky crane companies that actually do consruction work using balloon cranes to try to verify or deny the validity of Red Bull’s space jump claims.I’m personally not even convinced that a high atmosphere weather balloon would get off the ground with a 3000 pound capsule. Some of us feel that all the photos and video of the event have been so tightly controlled with no raw cell phone footage allowed because it’s all CGI fakery. A high atmophere balloon of very thin polyethylene isn’t made for this type of payload. It’s comic book fiction… cartoon type fiction of the sort we see in Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner. It just that we have the ability to make uncannily realistic looking photos and video “cartoons” now. With a network of willing agents, it’s quite possible to pull off a hoax like this.What do you all here think of that theory?

http://www.itstactical.com/centcom/news ... ment-61097

My comment to Clues readers... Maybe the way forward on this and other projects is to be pro-actively going into others' forums to challenge THEIR readership on this issue. How do you all here view my quick summary above? Pretty good? It just occurred to me that 9/11 was the first reality-cartoon made completely from computers. The previous apollo hoaxes required actual sets and film tricks. But video CGI cartoons and lots of payoffs to dupes and agents leads directly to a fantastic ability to create fake events. The parachutist whose forum I posted to above might become fairly reactive, but we'll see. I sense a falling of interest here in this at Clues but personally, I can't shake my fascination with it for the moment.

[fbenario]

In any case, Benario's finding me and attacking me here again... seems odd. I hope other readers sense it too. Simon's closing of the previous thread, I hate to say, Simon, seems out of character.

Don't ever again make a personal insinuation about me, or any other long-term member, or any of our motives. All you've done recently is stir up trouble with your insinuations, and your purposeful detouring of the forum into psyops that an admin decided to move past now. Your ego is astounding, and makes it nearly impossible to believe that that you have come to the forum with a good heart toward its purpose for existence.

[rick55]

In any case, Benario's finding me and attacking me here again... seems odd. I hope other readers sense it too. Simon's closing of the previous thread, I hate to say, Simon, seems out of character.

Don't ever again make a personal insinuation about me, or any other long-term member, or any of our motives. All you've done recently is stir up trouble with your insinuations, and your purposeful detouring of the forum into psyops that an admin decided to move past now. Your ego is astounding, and makes it nearly impossible to believe that that you have come to the forum with a good heart toward its purpose for existence.

Ok. I'll take my contributions elsewhere Benario. I know I've said I'm gone before but I'll try to go away for good this time. You all keep up the good work here. I'd rather not have to face this kind of feedback.

[omaxsteve]

Simon locked this thread for an extremely legitimate reason. This Rick55 entity has now gone behind Simon's back, and shows itself to be a particularly malignant online persona. Get 'im outta here now.

If he had actually learned something from the locked thread, he would have seen that the ONLY way forward on this psyop was to disprove Heiwa's basic primer on physics limitations - or to himself prove the affirmative, that it is potentially possible under the basic laws of physics. He didn't even try; how effing sad for him.

This forum will no longer waste time on crap that violates the Physical Constants of The Universe (as best we can understand them).

Physical constraints of the universe/ Like the moon walk, the mars rover, the "top down" collapse of the towers, the no-reason collapse of WTC 7. The disappearing Shanksville jet? It seems as if the bulk of the discussion on this forum is about "crap" that violates the physical constraints of the universe (as best we can understand them).

Simon may very well have locked the thread for a "very legitimate reason" I guess we will have to take his word for that because no legitimate reason has been put forward. Not that I am claiming that Simon has any obligation to provide an explanation. It is after all, his forum, and it it therefore his prerogative to proceed in any way that he pleases.

The basic research here relating to 9-11 that makes up the foundation of this forum is awesome. From the September clues , to the vicsims report, and every other aspect of 9-11 research. The "protectionist tone" of late is somewhat bothersome. The atmosphere towards new posters is anything but welcoming and in fact often times unnecessarily hostile.

NO one is questioning anyone"s manhood here. It seems like Rick55, as I do, has a genuine interest in exploring the Red Bull hoax. The treatment that this topic is receiving here is in many ways similar to how the "no planes" theory is treated at other 9-11 sites. By simply attempting to dig deeper into a subject of media fakery he is being accused of not having a good heart towards its (this forums) purpose for existence.

I just tried to find something akin to a Mission statement in order to ascertain what the purpose of the forum is.

The closet thing I could fine is a "slogan" that says on the top of every page September Clues research Forum - Exposing Media Fakery Another I found in the guide to being a good forum member was that no subject was taboo.

If someone who is questioning and contributing to the exposure of the Red Bull faked media event can be accused of being detrimental to the very purpose of the forums existence, perhaps it would be a good idea for someone to reiterate, clarify, and post publicly, what exactly it's (this form) purpose for existence is.

regards,

Steve O.

[simonshack]

The two others with an other " ZENITH " are from the Test jump in march.
Look :
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TCO2IdoTA

Interesting, dear Haze...

So Felix did a test-run in March, you say?

Can anyone please give Felix a call and ask him if he actually spent the night in the capsule prior to that March lift off? See, as Felix enters the capsule, the sun appears to be very close to bedtime :



Whereas (presumably several minutes later - or the next day ...) the sun is pretty high up in the sky:



So, unless the sun revolves the other way round in Roswell, this video of Felix's March test run is - at the very least - staged, and an untruthful depiction of that supposed test run. In other words - it's a fraud and a lie.

[Heiwa]

So here we are seconds before Felix and capsule leave the crane arm:

The balloon right is rising slowly vertically and can maybe carry 1000 kg with a 9820 N lifting force (I doubt it) = the weight of the capsule left and the gravity force acting on it (in the other direction) that is carried by the crane arm.
The balloon applies a horizontal force on the capsule (the two are connected via a wire) so that the heavy capsule slides off the crane hook ...

... evidently the capsule would now drop to the ground by gravity, BANG, and be pulled away sideways, SCREEK, by the horizontal force as nothing above carries it. The balloon and its lifting force is too far away on the right side to lift up the capsule vertically. The ballon (the horizontal force) can just drag the capsule sideways.

Thus I conclude that what you see above on the still of the video is 100% CGI!

I also doubt that the horizontal balloon force is big enough to slide off the capsule from the crane in the first, but that's another matter. The whole 'lift off' is ridiculous as the capsule should drop to the ground at once = lift drop down, with the capsule resting on the ground - BOUMP!

But seconds later the balloon is just above the crane (the crane does not really need to move - the balloon will always come above it) and lifts off the capsule without a hitch and the capsule floats in the air. There is an almost perfect balance between balloon lift force acting up and gravity force acting down on the capsule with lift force just slightly bigger than gravity force so that capsule displaces upwards.
Magic! It only happens in Hollywood!
The magic lift force of the balloon then remains constant until 29 000 m altitude unaffected by differences in external pressure and temperature. Impressive. Unbelievable.

[fbenario]

Simon locked this thread for an extremely legitimate reason. This Rick55 entity has now gone behind Simon's back, and shows itself to be a particularly malignant online persona. Get 'im outta here now.

If he had actually learned something from the locked thread, he would have seen that the ONLY way forward on this psyop was to disprove Heiwa's basic primer on physics limitations - or to himself prove the affirmative, that it is potentially possible under the basic laws of physics. He didn't even try; how effing sad for him.

This forum will no longer waste time on crap that violates the Physical Constants of The Universe (as best we can understand them).

Physical constraints of the universe/ Like the moon walk, the mars rover, the "top down" collapse of the towers, the no-reason collapse of WTC 7. The disappearing Shanksville jet? It seems as if the bulk of the discussion on this forum is about "crap" that violates the physical constraints of the universe (as best we can understand them).

Steve, I've loved reading every one of your 44 posts on the forum - until this one, which disappoints me greatly. Did you notice I capitalized that phrase? You didn't? Why the hell not?

Why was your research here so shoddy? Have fun trying to disprove many of the Physical Constraints listed in Wiki (and, no, this isn't the appropriate place to discuss Wiki's untrustworthiness on psyops).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_constant

As a final jibe, have fun trying to prove that you could easily survive on a planet without a very similar mix of oxygen in the air to what you breathe on Earth. You think your lungs will survive long-term in that different world? I won't be trying THAT experiment with you - I trust you understand why.

Before now you never struck me as overly reactive in your posts, as if you hit Submit without thinking.

[fbenario]

Physical constraints of the universe/ Like the moon walk, the mars rover, the "top down" collapse of the towers, the no-reason collapse of WTC 7. The disappearing Shanksville jet? It seems as if the bulk of the discussion on this forum is about "crap" that violates the physical constraints of the universe (as best we can understand them).

Simon may very well have locked the thread for a "very legitimate reason" I guess we will have to take his word for that because no legitimate reason has been put forward. Not that I am claiming that Simon has any obligation to provide an explanation. It is after all, his forum, and it it therefore his prerogative to proceed in any way that he pleases.

So in one single post you question the good faith of both Simon and me. Looks like it's time for you to start your own forum so that you can hold it to your own incredibly high standards of good faith. Have fun attracting 4.3 million page views in 3 years.

One final question, before I dismiss you from my life for good. Do you know anything about basic human psychology - or basic courtesy and respect? Without wasting my time checking for the exact number, Simon and I together have, what, somewhere over 5,500 combined posts? You don't. Is attacking two long-term members in the same post a good way to make any reader here trust your own good faith in trying to move the forum forward in a positive direction? Your psychological reasoning entirely escapes me. Sorry for that failure - not.

[hoi.polloi]

I finally agree with your suspicions, fbenario. It seems like omaxsteve and rick55 were doing some tag-teaming on this post, and both of their spellings and punctuations were rapidly spiraling downward. I think there may be a genuine effort to make this forum "unreadable", with few other strategies available to the perps besides blatantly attacking the forum's program.