Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

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Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby hoi.polloi on September 1st, 2015, 3:13 pm

Amateur astronomers, what would you say is or is not possible through an average telescope/camera rig?

We are told Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Charon, extremely distant stars (invisible to the naked eye) and distant galaxies are possible to photograph "even by amateurs". This is a typical argument from NASA proponents. Amusingly, they rarely claim satellites can be photographed, except of course for their ISIS ISS god.

From what I understood recently after reading about it, however, is that the three major planet/moon systems (beyond Jupiter and Saturn) are utterly invisible things merely calculated into existence by predictions, largely based on Kepler's fabricated data (which had never been taken from pure observation).

So ... can someone amongst us please tell us what they know to be true about true telescope/camera capabilities (from the basis of a budget of — say — $1000, in a place with very low light pollution, and excluding all large telescopes which are closed to the public)?
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby Flabbergasted on September 2nd, 2015, 12:29 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Amateur astronomers, what would you say is or is not possible through an average telescope/camera rig?

As simple as it may sound, that´s an absolutely fundamental question to ask. If only it had been asked earlier!
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby hoi.polloi on September 2nd, 2015, 7:32 am

By the way, I have actually seen Saturn and its ring/stripe glowing in a telescope, so not everything beyond Jupiter is pure math.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby NotRappaport on October 20th, 2017, 11:05 pm

hoi.polloi » September 1st, 2015, 7:13 am wrote:From what I understood recently after reading about it, however, is that the three major planet/moon systems (beyond Jupiter and Saturn) are utterly invisible things merely calculated into existence by predictions, largely based on Kepler's fabricated data (which had never been taken from pure observation).

So ... can someone amongst us please tell us what they know to be true about true telescope/camera capabilities (from the basis of a budget of — say — $1000, in a place with very low light pollution, and excluding all large telescopes which are closed to the public)?

Uranus and Neptune can be seen with an average telescope (although their moons certainly cannot). You just have to know exactly where to look.

They are nowhere near as large or bright as Jupiter or Saturn and don't appear different from faint stars, although Neptune has a faint blue hue that distinguishes it from a star, and both Uranus and Neptune move against the background stars over the course of successive nightly viewings.

They may have been predicted mathematically, but they are most definitely viewable. With a $1000 budget you could get an excellent scope with a motorized equatorial mount and built-in camera that will locate and track them for you. I, myself, don't have such a setup - just a Meade infinity 102mm refractor with an Alt/Az mount and, while I don't have a camera setup to take pictures through the telescope, I can spot Neptune through the eyepiece. Never seen Pluto however.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby simonshack on October 21st, 2017, 12:32 am

Hoi,

Uranus, Neptune and Pluto definitely exist (and can be observed) - and their orbital periods (as well as the parallax that they show to an earthly observer) perfectly coincide with / and confirm my upcoming model. I won't let you say otherwise - as it would be tantamount to disinforming our readers. So don't touch my Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, thanks! :)

Please get familiar with the NEAVE Planetarium:
https://neave.com/planetarium/
Just go to, say, February 5, 2003 (at 11 am looking South) and you will promptly find Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby hoi.polloi on October 21st, 2017, 4:35 am

NotRappaport » October 20th, 2017, 10:05 pm wrote:
hoi.polloi » September 1st, 2015, 7:13 am wrote:From what I understood recently after reading about it, however, is that the three major planet/moon systems (beyond Jupiter and Saturn) are utterly invisible things merely calculated into existence by predictions, largely based on Kepler's fabricated data (which had never been taken from pure observation).

So ... can someone amongst us please tell us what they know to be true about true telescope/camera capabilities (from the basis of a budget of — say — $1000, in a place with very low light pollution, and excluding all large telescopes which are closed to the public)?

Uranus and Neptune can be seen with an average telescope (although their moons certainly cannot). You just have to know exactly where to look.

They are nowhere near as large or bright as Jupiter or Saturn and don't appear different from faint stars, although Neptune has a faint blue hue that distinguishes it from a star, and both Uranus and Neptune move against the background stars over the course of successive nightly viewings.

They may have been predicted mathematically, but they are most definitely viewable. With a $1000 budget you could get an excellent scope with a motorized equatorial mount and built-in camera that will locate and track them for you. I, myself, don't have such a setup - just a Meade infinity 102mm refractor with an Alt/Az mount and, while I don't have a camera setup to take pictures through the telescope, I can spot Neptune through the eyepiece. Never seen Pluto however.


Okay, good to hear gentlemen. So the little Pluto Charon "system" can be captured with a photograph in such a camera? Please understand that I don't mean to discredit anything that is true. That is why I ask. I trust telescopes. Computers can show anything at all, and the beautiful Neave planetarium is accurate with everything else so I don't see why it would be wrong about the Pluto Charon thingie said to be out there. I would just like to know if it can be observed and resolved really well with a telescope and if anyone on the forum has done that.

Normally, I'd say, we don't ask others to do research for us, which is why I plan on beginning my own foray into astronomy. Just thought I would ask because I want to know what is perfectly expected.

The story of Pluto's naming is very Disney-esque. However that is all I say about it. I don't presently have reason to doubt Pluto or Charon.

As for your system, Simon, my inquiries should do nothing against it. I think your system should probably be adopted by schools the world over once it is revealed. It simply makes sense. And I understand if you don't want anything like this topic on your forum for now.

Still, isn't it interesting that NASA claims we can resolve things that the average person cannot see? Such as huge galaxies and "gaseous clouds" and such? This topic, I think, also covers those strange things that might only really exist in an imaginative illustration.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby NotRappaport on October 21st, 2017, 7:36 am

hoi.polloi » October 20th, 2017, 8:35 pm wrote:So the little Pluto Charon "system" can be captured with a photograph in such a camera?

I seriously doubt it. Locating and imaging Pluto would be an extremely difficult challenge, as it is magnitude 14 (very small and dim) and there are around 29 million magnitude 14 stars in the celestial sphere (see http://www.stargazing.net/david/constel ... stars.html). It won't appear any different than a dim star of the same magnitude, of which there will be many in the field of view. Positively identifying it would require images taken of the same spot several days apart to see which small speck moved during that time.

Discerning Pluto and Charon separately would probably require an observatory.

Pluto's orbital path (2017)
http://wwwcdn.skyandtelescope.com/wp-co ... o_2017.pdf
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby molodyets on October 23rd, 2017, 2:47 pm

In addition to the planets and the Sun of course, I've become very interested in learning what is relatively close to us. The following video suggests there are big asteroids in close orbits around the Earth.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEMathBJ_Tw

I do have a concern with the video, and of course many questions. First, I've never seen anything like that transiting the moon, only birds and airplanes. I've asked a couple people who have filmed the moon and they've never seen them either.

Then of course, what are they? The objects seem to be oddly shaped and rotating which seem to be consistent with asteroids. They also seem to be traveling relatively slowly, at least compared to meteors. At first I wondered if they were high altitude balloons, but I really have no idea. I haven't done any estimate as to their size or distance, but I would guess they are above any significant atmosphere. Or maybe they are near the atmosphere or even in it and eventually become the meteors we see. Either way, I'm very curious about them.

The person who posted the video, Crrow777, probably deserves a thread of his own, but I don't want to go off topic and discuss his work here.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby Altair on October 31st, 2017, 11:53 am

I've checked Crow777's YT channel, and while the 'hologram moon' hypothesis is a bit too much for me, I've found an interesting point in one of the comments of the videos. Namely, the existence of tides. We've always been told that tides are caused by gravitational pull of the Moon, and, to a lesser extent, of the Sun. But how can this explain that there are two high-tides daily? One of them is the 'antipodal' high tide, that happens in the opposite side to where the moon is. Maybe that can be explained in terms of resonances and so on, but anyway it's not as simple as we've been told.

Plus, the "official" explanations tells us about a 'tidal wave' that circles the earth. The problem with this is oceans are not continuous, and in fact this 'wave' couldn't jump over land masses. So, we'd have the atlantic/pacific/indian oceans basins, that are to all practical effects, not communicated.
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Re: Amateur Astronomy: What can we see?

Postby NotRappaport on November 2nd, 2017, 9:15 am

Altair » October 31st, 2017, 3:53 am wrote:I've checked Crow777's YT channel, and while the 'hologram moon' hypothesis is a bit too much for me, I've found an interesting point in one of the comments of the videos. Namely, the existence of tides. We've always been told that tides are caused by gravitational pull of the Moon, and, to a lesser extent, of the Sun. But how can this explain that there are two high-tides daily? One of them is the 'antipodal' high tide, that happens in the opposite side to where the moon is. Maybe that can be explained in terms of resonances and so on, but anyway it's not as simple as we've been told.

Yeah, the image with the two bulges is a bad representation because it always shows the bulges as swells of water enveloping the earth. Its better to show the bulges as tidal forces instead of the actual tides. Even that is simplified though because there are other dynamics at play such as water depth, ocean currents, etc.

There's an animation showing actual tide data over a 24 hour period on the OSU Tidal Data Inversion page. It's a flash animation so I can't embed it. And the map is confusing due to it being an equirectangular projection.

Here's a nice animation from Wickedpedia showing the tidal forces over an entire lunar month.
Image

I've seen some of Crrow777's stuff too, and while some of it is interesting he also seemed to weave in a lot of disinfo (orbs, flat earth, lunar wave hologram, etc).
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