Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

How the controlled opposition was designed to be part of the 9/11 hoax
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Mercurial
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by Mercurial » Tue May 15, 2012 8:52 am

Brian, chill. No one is accusing you of anything. You come across as a very sincere man. Your posts are just a bit too emotional, slightly garbled and often badly punctuated, that's all. There was one the other day where you repeated the same thing three times - it was a ball ache to read and I found it off-putting I have to say.

You have mentioned that you felt let down by people on the other forum because you thought they were your friends - we don't do "friends" here. Not that there aren't some amazing, lovely people here - it's just the forum is for analysis and research. I'm not a great researcher so I don't often post here, but I read the forum any number of times a day because often there are some insightful nuggets to take away and look into further (and when there are it makes my day!). The reason I love it here so much is the very fact that the posts are so well structured and readable.

Please don't be upset by Simon's tone - he is not trying to be hurtful and he hasn't turned on you. He is maybe just detecting a familiar pattern and is just letting you know he's wary - why wouldn't he be wary, he has been attacked so many times in the past. Trust is something earned not given straight off the bat - not in this line of work. :) :) :)

I think we are all done with the LRF stuff now - shall we move on and continue to make the research here concise and enjoyable for everyone involved.

Merc x

PS The Chatroom is the best place for asides like this.

PPS I read your work on 9/11 fakery on Before It's News before you made contact with Simon, it was a great round up but there were a lot of typos - I pulled it off and spent a few hours tidying it up - I didn't send it back to you because I didn't want to offend you (and because I didn't finish it, it needed another once over). Look, lots of people struggle with punctuation - it's not a crime. I would be happy to look over any future writings for you if you'd like.

simonshack
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by simonshack » Tue May 15, 2012 9:20 am

Brian,

As Mercurial rightly said, I wasn't accusing you of anything - take it easy. Sure, let's just talk on skype later today - my pc permitting (it went dead yesterday but seems to have miraculously ressuscitated this morning!....) :o

hoi.polloi
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Tue May 15, 2012 2:18 pm

Yeah.

Mercurial said:
You have mentioned that you felt let down by people on the other forum because you thought they were your friends - we don't do "friends" here. Not that there aren't some amazing, lovely people here - it's just the forum is for analysis and research.
Exactly. You've made your point again and again. Continuing to insist that we just change our perception about you, darn it! isn't going to really do that. And I don't appreciate a number of new users telling us how to run the forum. We are the "vigilant" members of the forum. That's our "job" we've found ourselves in. It's not exactly easy. It's not exactly fun.

You say:
You guys gotta ease up a lil. People are trying to come over and contribute.
This is what I don't understand. What makes you think you are reading emotion in my rude treatment of you? What could you possibly mean by "easing up"? Rudeness is just how it goes here. We are not into "buddying" with forum users. Must you know all the reasons for the caution? Have you not followed - for the last five years - what kind of abuse is hurled at Simon's videos from every direction? All the false friends? All the moves made to gain trust artificially? Don't you think it would be a little weird if someone came to a place you frequent and demanded to be known and trusted even as well as anyone before you? Doesn't that smack of privilege to you?

You say:
"you come across as a bit desperate to tell a story about yourself" What story???
Re: your previous comment - saying "people are trying to come over and contribute" unless I am mistaken and this is not a third person reference to yourself? Your story of your victimhood and how people are "mistreating" you had pretty much been the story you've been telling for the last four passages you posted. Must I write an exegesis on the attitude of your posts?

As for lynx_land's comment, which I'm reluctant to do anything to but ignore:
Personal stories are probably the only way to get sure fire proof someone actually is a shill and up to no good.

The rest is just speculation.

This thread is about shills isnt it not? Its not like Brian or anyone else went into a research thread and posted annectdotes. Only the appropriate threads already set up long before joining.
First of all, no. Personal stories are not "the only way to prove someone is a shill". Personal stories are not trustworthy and based on speculation alone. They are - in essence - equal in value to all the other bad information coming from the hoaxers. Our way of learning about the personality of the forum member is through how they conduct research. This thread is tongue-in-cheek because we all know there are shills and that proof of such is detective work we can't afford to do. There is no "proof that someone is a shill". There is only speculation on what might be evidence of it. It's one of the processes of science: having imagination; testing hypotheses. You say "just speculation" as if you believe it's worthless. Furthermore, being effective at contributing here is not the same as being a "shill" but it will be treated the same because all we care about is gathering evidence and proofs. Not making friends. Shills or just plain idiots are treated similarly.

Second of all, talking about evidence of people that aren't effective, please spell. Please use some semblance of English grammar. "Anecdotes". "Is it not". Please. Just a little more spell check and proofreading would be nice. Thank you. You and Brian S Staveley could both use it. I don't want people to read our forum without care - and your fast-and-loose formatting with bizarre spelling might not encourage careful thought. In fact, I believe you are none-too-subtly asking people to be overly forgiving of such oddities.

But to the point about allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to come on to our forums and extensively beg us to be trusted - and in a thread about the question of untrustworthy types - it's not acceptable. It never will be. I don't care how you've cared to repurpose the thread or the heading it's under. You are both - lynx_land and you Brian S Staveley- misinterpreting its meaning. This was started in order to actually talk about the possibility of shills online. The direction you are taking this, about your need for friends and trust, is not acceptable. It stinks.

lynx_land, your obstinate support of Brian S Staveley's rants tends to make me believe shills are indeed online and their job is to disrupt all manner of useful threads.

And as to what you want Brian S Staveley, I don't get it. You are here posting. What do you want? A ribbon? Better treatment? Stop getting offended by our "gauntlet of sarcasm" just because it's one of our only tools of directly demonstrating mistrust of you. Anyway, although I can't vouch for any of your personal beefs, and I really don't understand your attitude, at least you are here. Simon is talking with you. What more do you want?
I understand always being skeptical in this game Simon but you are doing EXACTLY what you say they do to you.
He's going out of his way to try to make "friends" with members of other forums, beg for undeserved trust and then backstab them? Really? Where did you witness this?
I did nothing to hurt this movement. People are dying to hear more of your story and you guys need to bring it past just this site.
to the public sites more. Lots of Clues fans don't even know this site. People that are fans of the movie. Now I finally start to get around to a lot of people of the media fakery and you discredit me, within weeks!! Why?
Simon doesn't have the power to "discredit" you. Nobody does. Only you do. That's the main message of our forum, and one you could stand to really learn about. Just because Simon or I may find you off-putting or non-trustworthy (and I'm not saying we do) doesn't mean you are off-putting or non-trustworthy to others. But you cannot come on here, stamping your keyboard, and demand we simply change our opinion of you. That's not how I'd make friends with real people and it's even less effective on the anonymous Internet.
If the shoes were reversed hoi and you and Simon had a fallout cuz he relentlessly attacked you for a week(not that you would Simon) and you somehow ended up on Let's Roll Forums wouldn't you contribute to the thread labeled "Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online" And Im sure your friend's picture would be there. Your damn right you would. This is all fresh. Part of a 5-6 day now attack . It s relevant to the title for sure. But Simon what's the deal.
How or why would I "somehow" end up on Let's Roll Forums? I don't think you appreciate just how awful that site appears or just how much of a breath of fresh air to me this forum is. "Your damn right" about very little about me, stranger.

Who is "attacking" you? Why are you so quick to paint yourself as a victim? Why are you begging for approval?

It rings untrue and if you are being genuine you just need to get over your need for instant friendship status. Same goes for 'lynx_land' and his interestingly similar typing habits.

If you find the work of spreading the word rewarding, then do it for that reason. Do it because you care about the dead and dying, because you care about the truth and you care about justice. We are not in a position to hand out medals here. The work is its own reward, is it not?

If not, why are you doing it? For "cred"?

truthseeker
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by truthseeker » Tue May 15, 2012 3:38 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:Yeah.

Mercurial said:
You have mentioned that you felt let down by people on the other forum because you thought they were your friends - we don't do "friends" here. Not that there aren't some amazing, lovely people here - it's just the forum is for analysis and research.
Exactly. You've made your point again and again. Continuing to insist that we just change our perception about you, darn it! isn't going to really do that. And I don't appreciate a number of new users telling us how to run the forum. We are the "vigilant" members of the forum. That's our "job" we've found ourselves in. It's not exactly easy. It's not exactly fun.

You say:
You guys gotta ease up a lil. People are trying to come over and contribute.
This is what I don't understand. What makes you think you are reading emotion in my rude treatment of you? What could you possibly mean by "easing up"? Rudeness is just how it goes here. We are not into "buddying" with forum users. Must you know all the reasons for the caution? Have you not followed - for the last five years - what kind of abuse is hurled at Simon's videos from every direction? All the false friends? All the moves made to gain trust artificially? Don't you think it would be a little weird if someone came to a place you frequent and demanded to be known and trusted even as well as anyone before you? Doesn't that smack of privilege to you?

You say:
"you come across as a bit desperate to tell a story about yourself" What story???
Re: your previous comment - saying "people are trying to come over and contribute" unless I am mistaken and this is not a third person reference to yourself? Your story of your victimhood and how people are "mistreating" you had pretty much been the story you've been telling for the last four passages you posted. Must I write an exegesis on the attitude of your posts?

As for lynx_land's comment, which I'm reluctant to do anything to but ignore:
Personal stories are probably the only way to get sure fire proof someone actually is a shill and up to no good.

The rest is just speculation.

This thread is about shills isnt it not? Its not like Brian or anyone else went into a research thread and posted annectdotes. Only the appropriate threads already set up long before joining.
First of all, no. Personal stories are not "the only way to prove someone is a shill". Personal stories are not trustworthy and based on speculation alone. They are - in essence - equal in value to all the other bad information coming from the hoaxers. Our way of learning about the personality of the forum member is through how they conduct research. This thread is tongue-in-cheek because we all know there are shills and that proof of such is detective work we can't afford to do. There is no "proof that someone is a shill". There is only speculation on what might be evidence of it. It's one of the processes of science: having imagination; testing hypotheses. You say "just speculation" as if you believe it's worthless. Furthermore, being effective at contributing here is not the same as being a "shill" but it will be treated the same because all we care about is gathering evidence and proofs. Not making friends. Shills or just plain idiots are treated similarly.

Second of all, talking about evidence of people that aren't effective, please spell. Please use some semblance of English grammar. "Anecdotes". "Is it not". Please. Just a little more spell check and proofreading would be nice. Thank you. You and Brian S Staveley could both use it. I don't want people to read our forum without care - and your fast-and-loose formatting with bizarre spelling might not encourage careful thought. In fact, I believe you are none-too-subtly asking people to be overly forgiving of such oddities.

But to the point about allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to come on to our forums and extensively beg us to be trusted - and in a thread about the question of untrustworthy types - it's not acceptable. It never will be. I don't care how you've cared to repurpose the thread or the heading it's under. You are both - lynx_land and you Brian S Staveley- misinterpreting its meaning. This was started in order to actually talk about the possibility of shills online. The direction you are taking this, about your need for friends and trust, is not acceptable. It stinks.

lynx_land, your obstinate support of Brian S Staveley's rants tends to make me believe shills are indeed online and their job is to disrupt all manner of useful threads.

And as to what you want Brian S Staveley, I don't get it. You are here posting. What do you want? A ribbon? Better treatment? Stop getting offended by our "gauntlet of sarcasm" just because it's one of our only tools of directly demonstrating mistrust of you. Anyway, although I can't vouch for any of your personal beefs, and I really don't understand your attitude, at least you are here. Simon is talking with you. What more do you want?
I understand always being skeptical in this game Simon but you are doing EXACTLY what you say they do to you.
He's going out of his way to try to make "friends" with members of other forums, beg for undeserved trust and then backstab them? Really? Where did you witness this?
I did nothing to hurt this movement. People are dying to hear more of your story and you guys need to bring it past just this site.
to the public sites more. Lots of Clues fans don't even know this site. People that are fans of the movie. Now I finally start to get around to a lot of people of the media fakery and you discredit me, within weeks!! Why?
Simon doesn't have the power to "discredit" you. Nobody does. Only you do. That's the main message of our forum, and one you could stand to really learn about. Just because Simon or I may find you off-putting or non-trustworthy (and I'm not saying we do) doesn't mean you are off-putting or non-trustworthy to others. But you cannot come on here, stamping your keyboard, and demand we simply change our opinion of you. That's not how I'd make friends with real people and it's even less effective on the anonymous Internet.
If the shoes were reversed hoi and you and Simon had a fallout cuz he relentlessly attacked you for a week(not that you would Simon) and you somehow ended up on Let's Roll Forums wouldn't you contribute to the thread labeled "Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online" And Im sure your friend's picture would be there. Your damn right you would. This is all fresh. Part of a 5-6 day now attack . It s relevant to the title for sure. But Simon what's the deal.
How or why would I "somehow" end up on Let's Roll Forums? I don't think you appreciate just how awful that site appears or just how much of a breath of fresh air to me this forum is. "Your damn right" about very little about me, stranger.

Who is "attacking" you? Why are you so quick to paint yourself as a victim? Why are you begging for approval?

It rings untrue and if you are being genuine you just need to get over your need for instant friendship status. Same goes for 'lynx_land' and his interestingly similar typing habits.

If you find the work of spreading the word rewarding, then do it for that reason. Do it because you care about the dead and dying, because you care about the truth and you care about justice. We are not in a position to hand out medals here. The work is its own reward, is it not?

If not, why are you doing it? For "cred"?
Just because new people come to Sept Clues forum, and insist that some people have to change to meet your agenda, makes no sense. You will find that there are some really smart guys here that have "cemented" this forum into the best 911 forum out there. They will certainly listen to any evidence of fakery about 911. You have to earn respect here by contributing. The problem is these guys have caught almost everything that was faked by the perps. Your going to have to really grind it out to contribute.
I'm still trying to find something these guys missed. But to no avail yet. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

brianv
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by brianv » Tue May 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Spot on Hoi, me old flower!

"but if 15-20 ppl"

"Im saying a lot of ppl there are emaiing me, like WTF is this guy's deal etc, etc."

"ON purpose to start fights with the ppl he can no longer control."

"I know I have had some of these ppl personally sit in on my radio shows"

"some of the people I trusted "originally" certainly are not on the up n up "

"not to mention the emails and phonecalls he does on a daily basis, to people until like 3 in the morning."

"and I hope you gets paycuts when people figure you and your team out like I did."

"Some people show up and get instant mod status out of nowhere"

"But he still takes pride in telling people..."

"How many people would find it on the searches if it were 9/11archive or named similar?"

"He censors the right of reply by IP banning people."

"And thanks for the people at Let's Roll that were banned simply for backing me" X 2

"A lot of people who respected my time and work there saw this all go down,"

"People are really warming up to it."

"It is an accent that hails from MA other people from this region..."

"North of Manhatten."

"Annecdotes"

"People have asked me repeatedly if I am from South Boston..."

"I forgive people. "

"You think people don't trust me and let me know wsup."

"I know there is a lie and there only 1055 people there. "

"..,people seem to really like the shows and the way I try and spread your message"

"I post your better pics all day and try to explain to people. "

"A lot of ppl won't look so when other people with the same message..." :)

"...but let's face it a lot of people won't look at clues and I really feel I am helping get people to take that corner."

"People are trying to come over and contribute. "

"As a matter of fact all thought it went well and it really woke a lot of people up to your information. "

"EXPLANING WHAT PEOPLE ARE SEEING!!"

"No I don't. I use my real name so people can know I'm real." - Do you have real photograph of yourself??

"Unfortunetly due to the truth movement, many people won't look at Clues and DUDE..."

"Been showing people since I first saw it and I really break it down for everyone real good!"

"People are dying to hear more of your story and you guys need to bring it past just this site. "

"People that are fans of the movie."

"Now I finally start to get around to a lot of people of the media fakery and you discredit me, within weeks!! Why?"

"That's the attitude of the people you speak of. Those people on that list act that way, Don't turn on me."

"Just because new people come to Sept Clues forum, and insist that some people have to change to meet your agenda..."

Change the fucking record guys and give it up!

Si. Beware of Geeks bearing Gifts.

simonshack
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by simonshack » Tue May 15, 2012 6:27 pm

brianv wrote: Si. Beware of Geeks bearing Gifts.
I will, brianv, I will.

Since I love speaking openly about all matters - I will state the following:

If Brian Staveley is a genuine, honest guy (his first, solo radio show was a gem of articulate information, neatly summing up our research), I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was great.

BRIAN STAVELEY (solo) radioshow : I can't seem to find the link to it anymore.

*************

If Brian Staveley is a troll/perp/whatever (this other radio show has him screaming like a madman at some Australian guy apparently named "Ghanghis") I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was awful.

BRIAN STAVELEY radioshow (with "Ghanghis") : http://www.therealnewsonline.com/upload ... l_call.ogg

Funnily enough, it was awful from whichever perspective you look at it: whether he's an umpteenth 9/11 troll working for the perps/or a very genuine, over-enthusiastic supporter of our research. Now, don't get me wrong: am I saying that I believe he works for the perps? No. I am saying that if he screams like a madman - he helps the perps' cause, no matter what he is. Knowingly or unknowingly? Wittingly or unwittingly? - It doesn't matter. By screaming like a madman, he squarely helps the perps - who only LOVE to make us all appear like screaming madmen.

Brian S Staveley
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by Brian S Staveley » Tue May 15, 2012 7:52 pm

Mercuial I am sorry It did sound like a was being accussed of something. You also have to understand I just finshed a week of being attacked and you guys have a thread that speaks of this very issue. Not only that, members of this forum WERE interested in some of the things I said on these issues BEFORE I posted them.

I thought this thread was too vent about this issue.If it's so counter productive than why have it. Also I am not perfect. We all make mistakes. That guy the other night was the first one i have ever lost it on and if you listen to his solution, I mean c,mon. But you can even ask him or go back to comments to see I apologized right away for calling him a name HOWEVER he did insult me first. Saying I'm not a real researcher because I watch Youtube all day. I never said Youtube was my main source of anything.


Than yes I did blow up al little and it was too much. How many shows do you guys do?? It was the first time ever!!!! Now if you want to know what my message is really about it's about getting the real truth out and I think you nailed it! I thought Simon's show with us and he admits was very good and they could all be that way. Did we once censor you or get you off topic or anything. Hell no! We let you push your whole message. IT did seem as you were turning on me and I coudln't believe it. Guys just listen if you didn't. We gave you like 3 hrs of radio truth and invited you back. that's how we are. When compared to Nico Haupt and others it's very insulting. I didn't try and twist your message at all. As a matter of fact people loved and it have been begging for you back. All members should hear and see if you think we are shills or if we were helpful to you!!!

Here is the link you couldn't find Simon

http://www.therealnewsonline.com/upload ... 4-8-12.mp3

BTW that caller I blew up on was for a few minutes. Your show was 3 hours for good information.

As far as the person talking about all my personal info and accent and where I live, read back a few posts. Your member asked me these questions seeing as he was from the area. I was not going on and on. Post his post too!!!!

Enough of this sh$%, but please don't expect to compare me to a list of gatekeeepers and me to say nothing!! I have been promoting you as much as I can.

Listen to the show. Then tell me if you think I'm honest.

Hopefully we can speak later. One last thing, I was attacked for a week and when I finally decided to post it it here in the correct thread , everyone's pissed.

I wanna help you guys archive things, do shows, whatever and it

ya I yelled at one caller but listen to this and tell us it's not a great informative show. That's all I want. Let's just get along and do some research, shows, videos etc.

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by brianv » Tue May 15, 2012 7:56 pm

simonshack wrote:
brianv wrote: Si. Beware of Geeks bearing Gifts.
I will, brianv, I will.

Since I love speaking openly about all matters - I will state the following:

If Brian Staveley is a genuine, honest guy (his first, solo radio show was a gem of articulate information, neatly summing up our research), I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was great.

BRIAN STAVELEY (solo) radioshow : I can't seem to find the lnk to it anymore.

*************

If Brian Staveley is a troll/perp/whatever (this other radio show has him screaming like a madman at some Australian guy apparently named "Ghanghis") I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was awful.

BRIAN STAVELEY radioshow (with "Ghanghis") : http://www.therealnewsonline.com/upload ... l_call.ogg

Funnily enough, it was awful from whichever perspective you look at it: whether he's an umpteenth 9/11 troll working for the perps/or a very genuine, over-enthusiastic supporter of our research. Now, don't get me wrong: am I saying that I believe he works for the perps? No. I am saying that if he screams like a madman - he helps the perps' cause, no matter what he is. Knowingly or unknowingly? Wittingly or unwittingly? - It doesn't matter. By screaming like a madman, he squarely helps the perps - who only LOVE to make us all appear like screaming madmen.
Or worse like this!

"I know there is a lie and there only 1055 people there."

Mr Staveley: "Let's just get along and do some research." As you have already been told this is not a dating site!

How about you do some research, like ten years later like, and come back to us!

Brian S Staveley
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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by Brian S Staveley » Tue May 15, 2012 8:10 pm

If anyone still has doubts please listen to how much we tried to help put your message out and hopefully can continue.

Have you all heard Simon's explanation on the events of 9/11 on audio??? Well here it is. We did want to do it again too getting into more

Simon Shack, Brian S Staveley, Justin Cooke

This was only weeks ago.

Have a good day guys. Please I am TRYING TO HELP!

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by simonshack » Tue May 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Brian S Staveley wrote: Here is the link you couldn't find Simon

http://www.therealnewsonline.com/upload ... 4-8-12.mp3
Nope. I was referring to the SOLO radio show you did - well before this one featuring yours truly. Can you please post a link to it?

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by AmongTheThugs » Tue May 15, 2012 9:11 pm

Speaken

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by lynx_land » Tue May 15, 2012 9:25 pm

simonshack wrote:
brianv wrote: Si. Beware of Geeks bearing Gifts.
If Brian Staveley is a genuine, honest guy (his first, solo radio show was a gem of articulate information, neatly summing up our research), I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was great.

BRIAN STAVELEY (solo) radioshow : I can't seem to find the link to it anymore.

*************

If Brian Staveley is a troll/perp/whatever (this other radio show has him screaming like a madman at some Australian guy apparently named "Ghanghis") I will ask him to listen to it for himself and learn - from himself. It was awful.

BRIAN STAVELEY radioshow (with "Ghanghis") : http://www.therealnewsonline.com/upload ... l_call.ogg

Funnily enough, it was awful from whichever perspective you look at it: whether he's an umpteenth 9/11 troll working for the perps/or a very genuine, over-enthusiastic supporter of our research. Now, don't get me wrong: am I saying that I believe he works for the perps? No. I am saying that if he screams like a madman - he helps the perps' cause, no matter what he is. Knowingly or unknowingly? Wittingly or unwittingly? - It doesn't matter. By screaming like a madman, he squarely helps the perps - who only LOVE to make us all appear like screaming madmen.
Wow, you live in Italy and don't recognise an English accent?

No way that guy was Australian! He was as British as Fish and Chips! :D

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by disinpho » Tue May 15, 2012 10:09 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:As for lynx_land's comment, which I'm reluctant to do anything to but ignore:
Personal stories are probably the only way to get sure fire proof someone actually is a shill and up to no good.

The rest is just speculation.

This thread is about shills isnt it not? Its not like Brian or anyone else went into a research thread and posted annectdotes. Only the appropriate threads already set up long before joining.
First of all, no. Personal stories are not "the only way to prove someone is a shill". Personal stories are not trustworthy and based on speculation alone. They are - in essence - equal in value to all the other bad information coming from the hoaxers. Our way of learning about the personality of the forum member is through how they conduct research. This thread is tongue-in-cheek because we all know there are shills and that proof of such is detective work we can't afford to do. There is no "proof that someone is a shill". There is only speculation on what might be evidence of it. It's one of the processes of science: having imagination; testing hypotheses. You say "just speculation" as if you believe it's worthless. Furthermore, being effective at contributing here is not the same as being a "shill" but it will be treated the same because all we care about is gathering evidence and proofs. Not making friends. Shills or just plain idiots are treated similarly.
I must say I had exactly the same impression as lynx_land regarding the purpose of this thread. And no, personal stories are not the only way to prove someone is a shill, but I must say I read Brians S Staveley's posts in this thread with great interest. Although Staveley seemed highly agitated in one of the posts, I totally understand this, after listening to some of his and Justin Cooke's show The Dose of Reality. They are (just as cluesforum) experiencing a shitstorm of shillery and shenanigans on their radio show, which I doubt has decreased after they avidly started to advertise September Clues, Simons', yours and cluesforums work. One of the callers sounded like a f'ing debate-atron-t1000 robot speaking overly perfect 'british', trying to discredit no planes/media fakery with semantics, logical fallacies and a tenacity like I've never experienced. To Staveley's credit, he kept the caller on until he had enough on him to clearly expose him for what he did; he was using straw men, gatekeeping and petty semantics.
hoi.polloi wrote:And as to what you want Brian S Staveley, I don't get it. You are here posting. What do you want? A ribbon? Better treatment? Stop getting offended by our "gauntlet of sarcasm" just because it's one of our only tools of directly demonstrating mistrust of you. Anyway, although I can't vouch for any of your personal beefs, and I really don't understand your attitude, at least you are here. Simon is talking with you. What more do you want?
Well, in all fairness, I would also feel hurt had I received the message below.
simonshack wrote:Brian Staveley, just to let you know:

You'll have to act somewhat better in order to convince me that you're not just another fake/double-faced promoter of my research - just like these former 'fans' were: "Ozzzybinoswald", "Dduck", "Jeff Hill", "genghis", "Nico Haupt", "Rosalee Grable (aka the "Webfairy"), "Kentrailer", "Ace Baker", "Jim Fetzer", "etc..."

You know, dear Brian Staveley, we are talking about pretty grave and momentous issues here, and everyone participating in this research need to show some profoundness. I'm afraid you are still way short of that. It is a FACT that all of the above-named entities have championed my research for weeks, months or years - only to flipflop at some stage and turn against me (or just completely ignored me for almost half a decade, as Morgan Reynolds has...) What does this tell you?
I would take that message as a huge slap in the face, especially if I felt I was doing everything to assist September Clues, cluesforum and the truth. And I must say, I think Mr. Staveley and Mr. Cooke have managed to crack open the subject of media fakery without falling into the many pitfalls and fallacies that have been spread for us throughout the 'truth movement'.

I still listen to their show, and their archive. It is refreshing to hear someone like them, who actually express doubt where due, explain the listeners what amount of effort is needed to put into research before being able to express something confidently. They also go to great length to explain why they are so certain about the media fakery on 911 (and use Simons research as reference), and why they can only speculate on topics like the Japan Earthquake/Meltdown without having done extensive research into the manipulation. They do, however leave room for event being totally contrived, ala 911.

If Brian S. Staveley is a shill, he does a darn good job of vaccinating people against himself. He talks publicly and repeatedly about shillery, gatekeeping and disinformation and how hard it is to ascertain the truth without research. I think the show format is really excellent, especially when (like last sunday) they where 4 researchers on the air at the same time, who discuss research like ours with proper scepticism and logic.

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by simonshack » Tue May 15, 2012 10:58 pm

lynx_land wrote: Wow, you live in Italy and don't recognise an English accent?

No way that guy was Australian! He was as British as Fish and Chips! :D
Well, for your information, lynx land:

Brian Staveley actually asked me if this "GHANGHIS" he talked with was the same as "GHENGHIS" (aka "Scott Vincent") , an Australian guy who championed September Clues ever since it was published in 2007 - and posted it on his Youtube channel, gathering tons of views - only to inexplicably close down his channel (by his own admittance) with no reason given.

Disinpho:
I'm not into the business of 'hurting' anyone while diffusing our research. All I ask for is that anyone diffusing our findings over a radio show (something which we don't do at this time) refrain from any sort of wild and off-putting screaming antics. That's all.

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Re: Do You Literally Think There Are Shills Online

Unread post by fbenario » Wed May 16, 2012 12:09 am

As all of you know, I'm quick - and accurate - identifying shills and bad actors, publicly calling them out, and telling them to stop.

Some of you may recall from Summer 2010 that when Nonho first joined the forum, certain members found him suspicious. By contrast, I thought from his very first post that he was acting in good faith and was willing to help the forum and its research. While he was being criticized on the forum, I messaged Nonho to ask him not to abandon us.

I have to say that, in this case, I have found Brian S to be acting in good faith from the beginning, even if he does not appear entirely trustworthy to others. I asked Brian S. some very pointed questions in the beginning, and he (nearly alone among suspicious new members) immediately answered them openly and honestly.

Could I be wrong this time in my minority view? Of course. Time will tell.

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