Evidence that David Angell was a Real Person?

[D.Duck]

Guys,


David Angell was a real person and his wife Lynn was real too.
I just thought you guys should know, or do you think they faked the Emmys in 1984.

Now, as I said a couple of monts ago, "this opens up a lot of stuff" cos we know there was no Flight 11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4PSIfCxVGI&feature=player_embedded


What happened to the guy?


D.Duck

[nonhocapito]

Aside of the fact that a video is a video is a video (it can be faked), I have no problem in agreeing that this one Angell is/was real. Which means today he's probably somewhere under a different identity, probably even still working in the TV business in LA, and enjoying the fruits of his participation in the 9/11 con job. So. How is this so relevant again?

[hoi.polloi]

This is the most compelling evidence yet. I couldn't help but notice it was added in October 2010 to YouTube - around the time the Angell debate started getting a little hot on the old forum.

I wonder:

1. All video can be faked - but if it were, this could be the most convincing fake of all the 9/11 evidence thusfar and why would they waste that effort on retroactive proof of David Angell - unless it were to try to somehow derail the vicsim idea? They would know that this is folly because one real person does not make 3,000 real. Especially given other points:

2. David Angell is allegedly an NBC employee - probably an NBC loyal due to his entire successful career stemming from their paychecks (or the Pentagon's if we want to get speculative about how our television networks operate) - and therefore is highly suspect in the first place.

3. If all the amateur videos are credited to media professionals, might a lead "writer" of the 9/11 sap story also be a media professional? And if Angell was a real person who helped to create the 9/11 fake story, would he not be working with a director of some kind - perhaps one he (and the Pentagon) trusts very well? Might the director of the entire fake 9/11 movie be someone like a Ben Silverman type who has actually worked with David Angell on Cheers, Frasier, etc.?

4. The end of Wag the Dog had the Dustin Hoffman character's ego get the best of him and in order to receive credit for his story he had himself "die" in order to be remembered very near to the fake war scenario scheme. Might Angell's pre-prepared special homage on Fraiser have been specifically created for this purpose? Could the rumors of Kelsey Grammar and David Hyde Pierce arguing about 9/11's appropriateness as a subject on the show have been a true drama between someone who was "in" on it (the extremely hawkish and conservative Kelsey Grammar) versus someone who was "out" of it and given the fake death story (David Hyde Pierce - the Hollywood liberal)?

All speculation above, since the evidence was taken away and destroyed, but I think nonhocapito is right that whoever acted as David Angell - if that was a real name anyway - might have been moved to a safe and warm location deep in politically protected borders.

[D.Duck]

No ho,

How is this so relevant again?

Oh, I am sorry, I thought this was a 9/11 forum, you know planes hitting towers that wasn't real planes and many people dead that wasn't really dead.

The proof that Angell was a real guy is obviously to much for you to wrap around your brain.

There are a lot of intelligent people on this forum that can figure out what stinking can is opened.

I like that you are clear in your reactions, it makes things a lot easier.


Quack
D.Duck

[SmokingGunII]

Fireman Sam, who once posted at RS with his initial findings, has delved deeply into David & Lynn Angell and the various inconsistencies in their identities and story.

http://firemansams.blogspot.com/2010_11_01_archive.html

It's debatable whether the person shown in the 1984 video is anying more than an actor - he certainly doesn't look the same as the latter version of Angell, even allowing for the additional years - that's assuming the video is kosher. As Hoi said, this video appeared about the same time as Angell's existence was being questioned.

I believe he is one of the select sims, like Olson, that had a slightly higher profile to throw the casual researcher off the scent and convince the general populas that "real" people really did die.

Note: Flight 11 was also mentioned in one Frazier episode (coincidence or more foreknowledge?)

[D.Duck]

Smoke,

It's debatable whether the person shown in the 1984 video is anying more than an actor

An actor for the 9/11 script in 1984 ? kind of a stretch dont you think ?

Its funny you guys keep fighting this.

If you wanted a high profile guy in the 9/11 script that is Fake, dont you think there would have been an easier way to do it, that would be consistent with the other fuck ups?

They do bullshit videos and pictures and fuck up on most everything but on Angell they backstop the guy flawless since 1978, haha give me a break.


DoReMi
D.Duck

[nonhocapito]

No ho,

How is this so relevant again?

Oh, I am sorry, I thought this was a 9/11 forum, you know planes hitting towers that wasn't real planes and many people dead that wasn't really dead.

The proof that Angell was a real guy is obviously to much for you to wrap around your brain.

There are a lot of intelligent people on this forum that can figure out what stinking can is opened.

I like that you are clear in your reactions, it makes things a lot easier.


Quack
D.Duck

Useless aggressiveness, D.Duck. I am not going to be baited into making this a dividing issue. I said I can take it that Angell was real, no problem there. I am following you. So he's real. It is up to you to explain why this is so crucial, because i don't see it.

So he was real, and he faked his own death for the good of the plan, maybe just like Barbara Olson and probably a few many others. I don't see what problems this causes to the no-planes-no-victims scenario. It actually fits very well into it. I am not surprised he was real, I would be surprised if you could prove to me he actually died on 9/11! Don't you agree? I would also be surprised if we were to prove that nobody faked his own death on 9/11 and changed identity, because it really seems something that was bound to happen in such a grand scheme. So why now don't we move on? It's 2011 already. Angell is so last year.

[Brutal Metal]

It looks like the dude aged 30 years in 15, his hair is White grey in the few (and I stress few) photos of him close to his supposed death on a 911 flight!

[Brutal Metal]

Smoke,

It's debatable whether the person shown in the 1984 video is anying more than an actor

An actor for the 9/11 script in 1984 ? kind of a stretch dont you think ?

Its funny you guys keep fighting this.

ID.Duck

Or Maybe that's what the REAL Angell looked like back then?? I will state again it doesn't look like the same person!
Hey D Duck weren't you the one that found that interview with the 3 Fraiser creators that was done in the 90's that had the interviews with a so called David Angell? Your telling me in 10 years his looks changed that much?

[fred]

The astronauts have been doing their thing since before 1978. When did Ratz/Angell leave the military and go Hollywood?

Are you sure that the WTC wasn't a purpose-built structure?

Was NYC (and the world) so short on office space in the late sixties that we needed two twin towers built in Lower Manhattan?

To me, it's sort of a weird and grandiose name for a building anyway.

When somebody goes out and builds two of the tallest buildings in the world you have to assume it's going to attract the interest of the government and other powers that be. Whoever built the WTC had big plans. Why wasn't it called the "Mutual of Omaha Building" or "Goldman Plaza"?

I'm pretty sure they had the idea of blowing up the twin towers back before they were putting men on the moon. From the space age to the new millennium. Look how long they've been planning the Euro or the UN. Whoever "Angell" is (Ratz), he's been involved in this stuff since way back when. Now he wants to take his money and enter politics, or so it seems.

Look how old Operation Northwoods is supposed to be (Kennedy Administration). To the extent that 9/11 resembles anything, it resembles Operation Northwoods. Ratzo was probably one of the carefully-prepared college kids who was supposed to die in the fake plane crash back when Cuba was the enemy du jour.

These wq2rx guys are lifers, imho. Its not like you get to be Neil Armstrong and then after a few years you can just say, yeah, we were just kidding. He was on board in 1978, and he's on board in 1998. Semper fi.

[SmokingGunII]

Smoke,

It's debatable whether the person shown in the 1984 video is anying more than an actor

An actor for the 9/11 script in 1984 ? kind of a stretch dont you think ?

Its funny you guys keep fighting this.

If you wanted a high profile guy in the 9/11 script that is Fake, dont you think there would have been an easier way to do it, that would be consistent with the other fuck ups?

They do bullshit videos and pictures and fuck up on most everything but on Angell they backstop the guy flawless since 1978, haha give me a break.


DoReMi
D.Duck

DD

I use the word actor in the loosest sense, with the caveat "debatable". My point is whoever is in the video - assuming that it is 100% genuine - could be anyone. David Angell could have been a nom de plume for a well known writer. In the UK we had a brilliant comedy writer known as Gerald Wiley. No one in the business knew who this writer was until he was unveiled at an industry dinner. It turned out to be the late, great Ronnie Barker, yet none of his contempories knew this.

Also, if you read Fireman Sam's blog and the links to the Angell Foundation, you'll see that his backstopping hasn't been flawless.

Whatever one's opinion is on his identity, I think we can all agree that he didn't die on 9/11.

[D.Duck]

Brutal,

Hey D Duck weren't you the one that found that interview with the 3 Fraiser creators that was done in the 90's that had the interviews with a so called David Angell? Your telling me in 10 years his looks changed that much?

Yea, you are right. I was the one who found the Angell,Casey and Lee interview and I have checked Angells voice from the Emmys 1984 with the Angell,Casey and Lee interview from 1998.

The voice is a 100% match if you take in to account that 14 years have past, but the letter S is a big giveaway.

Yes, its normal that you lose some hair and it gets grey from the age 40 to 50.

They guy was 38 in the Emmy thing.


Here he is in 1994 and he is 48.

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/756 ... mage-Video


Here he is in1998 and he is 52.

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/757 ... mage-Video

I dont think you can miss to see who Angell is in those videos and there is no question the guy was real and was a high profile writer,creator,producer for Taxi,Cheers,Frasier and Wings.


We have another "plane victim" that was real, "Carolyn Beug" a Disney high profile.

With that said, I dont think the still pictures of Beug and Angell show exactly how they looked cos the pictures have been photoshopped and there is a reason for that and I will come back to that later.



Best
D.Duck

[hoi.polloi]

I am curious about your evidence D.Duck and the logical leap would be ... Angell was photoshopped to appear less real than he is - in order to disguise him as a vicsim and - more importantly - add credence to the fake victims ... make the vicsims seem like real victims.

In other words, if you skew a famous person's face but keep them recognizable as that celebrity face, you can create a bunch of skewed faces around that person and suddenly people sort of accept it. It's like "if Steve Buscemi jumped off a cliff, would you?" only it's more like, "if Steve Buscemi warped his face into a fake firefighter who fake-died, shouldn't you get into all the fake pics too?"

I am also very much curious about the idea of how Angell's character was continued after these old-skool appearances. He does seem to have weird and wavering backstopping. Like they are trying to (con)fuse a real Angell to a fake Angell and try to make them become a single person.

[nonhocapito]

In other words, if you skew a famous person's face but keep them recognizable as that celebrity face, you can create a bunch of skewed faces around that person and suddenly people sort of accept it.

I hadn't thought about the contradiction between him being real and the his vicsim pictures being flawed, I guess this part of the Angell story is important because it seem to hurt the work that has been done to prove the fakery of the imagery of Angell, his biography, the memorials, the lack of a grave, whatever...

But maybe, Hoi, the reason for this was also precisely this one: to hurt the research by pulling out of the hat a detail that would retroactively discredit a piece of research and, with it, a method.

If I am understanding this issue, this could be achieved both ways: either with very good new fake material (in this case it would be this 1984 VHS) OR with deliberately flawed pictures contradicted by the discovery of the character being real...

[hoi.polloi]

Yes, you and Fred also make a good point.

I don't agree with D.Duck that it's absurd that there could be some genuine money going into making someone more real than they are. What we have shown time and again in this research is that it is far easier to create a vast conspiracy that nobody blows the whistle on than people care to imagine.

That is to say, conspiracies are very real. And very rampant. And it's an obnoxious fact of life that we just have to get used to. Nothing to be done about it, really.

At any rate, the media is still complicit using fake imagery so the "real" evidence we can gather about any reality behind this Angell cartoon character is limited to speculation and personal experience. I personally don't know many NBC employees and I'm not sure I would trust them if I did! However, I'd like to see where D.Duck is taking us because it is interesting to watch.